Can anyone guestimate

[Nateskate]

I've seen people estimate how many pages you will have, converting from Courier. Does anyone have a rough idea how to estimate how many pages your book will be converting from Times Roman?

[maestrowork]

I'd say roughly 3:2 ratio. Meaning, if your ms is at 200 pages with TNR (considering double-spaced, 1" margin and all that), it'll probably be around 300 pages with Courier.

[Cathy C]

Funny you should ask this today, Nateskate! I just posted this EXACT information on another thread. It's the last few posts. Here you go:


http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14063

Let me know if that doesn't answer your question! :D

[Nateskate]

Funny you should ask this today, Nateskate! I just posted this EXACT information on another thread. It's the last few posts. Here you go:


http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14063

Let me know if that doesn't answer your question! :D

Thanks. I read this and enjoyed your post, but my question is less about "Word Count", because word count/page count probably vary more depending on how you write.

See Jane
See Jane run
See Mike run after Jane

Vs, "Jane was running in a park off of 42nd Street at noon, when she saw Mike standing outside the office."

I was wondering page for page, if there is some way to estimate. I think someone estimated that every 1 1/2 pages in courier will translate into 1 page in a book. (Obviously that depends on their writing style)

It's been so long ago, maybe they were referring to Times Roman? I'm not sure if that is correct. However, I guess if I do pure math, then if 10 font courier is 200-300, then 12 font times roman should almost be a 1-1 correlation and 400 pages of Times Roman would be roughly 400 pages in a Trade Paperback.

I figured I could do better estimating book length doing a page for page formula instead of a word count formula.

[Cathy C]

Hmm. Not sure. But there's an easy way to find out. Open your document and select File: Save As and give it a different name, such as xxx.courier.doc and then go into Edit: Select All. Once the entire document is highlighted, change the font to Courier and wait for it to repaginate. Lots easier than guesstimating, and your original document is untouched. Then you'll know for future reference.

[Jonny Ryan Mac]

Ive seen a lot of these threads, while my observations may not answer questions, i belive they are well founded.

Most people say that a 150K wrd MS for a first time author is too big.

I went to the new fiction bin and picked up three books by first time authors, the only one i remember was "The Crimson Sword" By Elson Thompson. Looks good, reads good, around 400 wrds a page for 540+ pages. even at the 250 wrs math system, thats over 130K

Most people write in the sumbission format, (10-12 point courier, double spaced, 1" Margins.) Write however you want, then format it at the end. It strikes me as strange that when I go to the bookstore and look at new fiction authors, there books continually go over the 100K limit that I keep hearing about.

So I have come to the conclusion that you should write what you want, deal with the rest later. Maybe its good, maybe its not, but youll never know with the bat on your shoulders.
http://absolutewrite.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif(take a swing)

[Julie Worth]

I've seen people estimate how many pages you will have, converting from Courier. Does anyone have a rough idea how to estimate how many pages your book will be converting from Times Roman?

It depends on how many chapters you have, and other mysterious factors, so there's no EXACT conversion. The best way is to actually do it. You have a book. You've written it in Courier. So just change the NORMAL style to TNR. Look at how many pages you have.

But maestrowork's 3:2 is close enough! Three pages of Courier become two of TNR, unless you have a lot of short chapters, in which case the ratio is 1:1, in the limit (when every Courier chapter is only one page).

[Nateskate]

Ive seen a lot of these threads, while my observations may not answer questions, i belive they are well founded.

Most people say that a 150K wrd MS for a first time author is too big.

I went to the new fiction bin and picked up three books by first time authors, the only one i remember was "The Crimson Sword" By Elson Thompson. Looks good, reads good, around 400 wrds a page for 540+ pages. even at the 250 wrs math system, thats over 130K

Most people write in the sumbission format, (10-12 point courier, double spaced, 1" Margins.) Write however you want, then format it at the end. It strikes me as strange that when I go to the bookstore and look at new fiction authors, there books continually go over the 100K limit that I keep hearing about.

So I have come to the conclusion that you should write what you want, deal with the rest later. Maybe its good, maybe its not, but youll never know with the bat on your shoulders.
http://absolutewrite.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif(take a swing)

Well, I do appreciate the advice and encouragement you've given.

I've started taking some swings. But I'm still looking to perfect my swing, in terms of having books wind up the size I intend them to be.

I wrote the whole story (series), then re-formated and revised it to have lower word counts. Book one came in where I wanted it 85-90,000 words.
I had an intended word count when I started book two, and I've gone way over in the revision process. (It's 95% complete and 130,000 words in T.R- 12 font)

I have three choices. 1) submit the book longer than I wanted it to be, or 2)because of the way it's formated, I can take a chapter out and throw it into book three, which would take the word count down. 3) Slice and Dice. But that is something I'd rather line edit with a pro, if I'm going that route.

I was trying to guestimate the actual size the novel would be for that reason.

[James D. Macdonald]

The book's designer can make the finished book darned near any length she wants. Tell the story you have to tell, submit it, start the next.

[Nateskate]

It depends on how many chapters you have, and other mysterious factors, so there's no EXACT conversion. The best way is to actually do it. You have a book. You've written it in Courier. So just change the NORMAL style to TNR. Look at how many pages you have.

But maestrowork's 3:2 is close enough! Three pages of Courier become two of TNR, unless you have a lot of short chapters, in which case the ratio is 1:1, in the limit (when every Courier chapter is only one page).

I have a little over 130,000 words in Times Roman, something like 484 pages TR with a 12 font. (double spaced) It's longer than I wanted, but there is a redeaming factor. Because of the structure of the story, which follows more than one plot point, I could move a chapter or two into book three.

[WriteRead]

I've found that the best way to do it, is to do what Cathy suggested in her post of 6/13, that is to change the font and see the new no of pages, BUT W/O the need for "save as". Just change and count. Then you can return to the original font wheneer you want. I did it many times w no disaster falling on me. There's no guestimating here, it counts the actual no of pages.

Now, in the task bar, I mean the bar at the bottom, you can see the no of pages, along w other info, like no of characters and more, the icons of the Looks (Normal, Print, Outlook) and more.

Usually it looks like this (ex.): 40/44, where the first no is the no of the page you're at (where your cursor is placed) and the last is the last page's no. This last no is bigger than the actual one, b/c Word is counting blank pages, too, the ones which go beyond the actual last one. It's usually bigger by two pages, or maybe one.

Hope it's clear http://absolutewrite.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

Dan

[Nateskate]

I've found that the best way to do it, is to do what Cathy suggested in her post of 6/13, that is to change the font and see the new no of pages, BUT W/O the need for "save as". Just change and count. Then you can return to the original font wheneer you want. I did it many times w no disaster falling on me. There's no guestimating here, it counts the actual no of pages.

Now, in the task bar, I mean the bar at the bottom, you can see the no of pages, along w other info, like no of characters and more, the icons of the Looks (Normal, Print, Outlook) and more.

Usually it looks like this (ex.): 40/44, where the first no is the no of the page you're at (where your cursor is placed) and the last is the last page's no. This last no is bigger than the actual one, b/c Word is counting blank pages, too, the ones which go beyond the actual last one. It's usually bigger by two pages, or maybe one.

Hope it's clear http://absolutewrite.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

Dan

I did the change. It's 134,000 words either way. The Courier Page # is 557, the TNR is 498 pages. I understand James point, the printer can pick whatever font size they want, and page size, and that will alter the final page size of the book.

I don't particularly like small font print in books. So, my question is really picturing standard print in a trade paperback, or in a hardcover, which I know would be different numbers.

Correction, using the (Pages x 250) Courier would be 138,000 pages.

[scribbler1382]

I did the change. It's 134,000 words either way.

If anyone finds a font that actually increases or descreases the number of words in your novel, let me know. I'll patent the fonts and be a millionaire. :)

[WriteRead]

You said:

I understand James point, the printer can pick whatever font size they want, and page size, and that will alter the final page size of the book.

I don't know to what post you refer, but if I understand it rightly, then the Print and/or Page setup prompts, from File, will give you the possibility to choose the paper size and type, so, actually, it doesn't pick whatever it wants, it will pick the defaults, or the settings which you've made.

Dan

[Vomaxx]

Could AW perhaps start a new category, called "Word Count," in which this fascinating topic could be sequestered? Every time I see this bromide start up again I feel like screaming. :Hammer: