CIA Says Pelosi Was Briefed on Use of 'Enhanced Interrogations'

[Robert Toy]

Intelligence officials released documents this evening saying that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) was briefed in September 2002 about the use of harsh interrogation tactics against al-Qaeda prisoners, seemingly contradicting her repeated statements over the past 18 months that she was never told that these techniques were actually being used.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/capitol-briefing/2009/05/cia_says_pelosi_was_briefed_on.html?hpid=news-col-blog

Obviously the CIA used memory erasure methods on Nancy…

[Williebee]

stunned. You could knock me over with an adverb. Really.

[Don]

And now we understand the bi-partisan support for not pursuing the last adminstration concerning war crimes.

[William Haskins]

the torture policy was not exclusively a republican policy. it's helpful for democrats to frame it that way, and they benefit further by the abysmal public perception of republicans right now. but there's a reason that there's not a spastic outcry by notable officials.

an interesting exchange, in fact, took place today:


At a hearing today with Attorney General Eric Holder, Republican members of a Senate Appropriations subcommittee suggested that any potential criminal investigation into the CIA's harsh interrogation methods might not easily be contained.

Both Lamar Alexander of Tennessee and Richard Shelby of Alabama pressed Holder on the CIA's "rendition" program that moved terrorism suspects from one country to another.

Didn't that happen during the Clinton administration?
Yes, Holder said.

"How many did you approve?" they asked.
Holder said he'd check the record.

The clear suggestion was, if any criminal investigation is opened, Republicans would push to get it expanded beyond events during the Bush administration. Alexander, for example, asked several times whether members of Congress, who were told about the interrogation methods, should also be investigated.http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/05/07/1925394.aspx

[SPMiller]

I'm in favor of investigating (and punishing, if possible) any and all high-level officials involved regardless of political affiliation, even if that includes Obama and Pelosi. If that puts most of Congress in prison, fine. Tear that shit down.

[whistlelock]

Ooh, I love it when a politician gets caught in a lie.

I wonder which way Nancy will twist to keep her place as speaker.

[Bird of Prey]

Ooh, I love it when a politician gets caught in a lie.

I wonder which way Nancy will twist to keep her place as speaker.

She'll have a very hard time of it. Obama won't be sympathetic. He's demonstrated a willingness to let the old guard languish in its own trap.

[Gregg]

What is torture? fear? no. intimidation? no. bodily harm. perhaps.
I did some research into torture for a book I'm writing and found a really bad one: a few rats are placed in a metal container which is strapped to the victim's stomach; the pail is slowly heated and the rats become frantic; they only have one way out. Guess where?
That is torture. So is plucking out eyeballs.
But fear? Mind games? The threat of drowning? Probably not.
Now a question was posed: if we knew exactly where BinLaden was hiding and could take him out with a missile but would also take out innocent civilians, including children, should we do it? The person who said "yes" also said that waterboarding (where nobody actually dies) should not be allowed.
Does this make sense?

[Gary]

It's time to forget the past, but I really hope the military quits torturing the thousands of aircrews and special ops people who are routinely waterboarded as part of their training. If we can't do it to terrorists, we certainly shouldn't be doing it to innocent Americans.

[dclary]

I'm in favor of investigating (and punishing, if possible) any and all high-level officials involved regardless of political affiliation, even if that includes Obama and Pelosi. If that puts most of Congress in prison, fine. Tear that shit down.

Agreed

[Don Allen]

What is torture? fear? no. intimidation? no. bodily harm. perhaps.
I did some research into torture for a book I'm writing and found a really bad one: a few rats are placed in a metal container which is strapped to the victim's stomach; the pail is slowly heated and the rats become frantic; they only have one way out. Guess where?
That is torture. So is plucking out eyeballs.
But fear? Mind games? The threat of drowning? Probably not.
Now a question was posed: if we knew exactly where BinLaden was hiding and could take him out with a missile but would also take out innocent civilians, including children, should we do it? The person who said "yes" also said that waterboarding (where nobody actually dies) should not be allowed.
Does this make sense?


My personal favorite is the pear of pain. a large metal pear shaped instrument inserted into a body cavity of your choosing then expanded by an attached screw device (no pun intended).

...but I'am also partial to forcing an individual to listen to Donnie and Marie songs 24 hours a day, it's just so freaken cruel....

[Magdalen]

I'm the stretched, drawn and quartered type myself.

[Fullback]

People were tortured to death.

"Command’s Responsibility documents a dozen brutal deaths as the result of the most horrific treatment. One such incident would be an isolated transgression; two would be a serious problem; a dozen of them is policy. The law of military justice has long recognized that military leaders are held responsible for the conduct of their troops. Yet this report also documents that no civilian official or officer above the rank of major responsible for interrogation and detention practices has been charged in connection with the torture or abuse-related death of a detainee in U.S. custody. And the highest punishment for anyone handed down in the case of a torture-related death has been five months in jail. This is not accountability as we know it in the United States."

—John D. Hutson
President and Dean, Franklin Pierce Law Center
Ret. Rear Admiral, JAGC, USN

Link (http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/us_law/etn/dic/index.asp)

[blacbird]

Not defending Pelosi (who I think Dems should jettison as soon as possible), but let's also remember that the CIA assured Carter that Ayatollah Khomeini was no threat to overthrow the Shah of Iran. Among other historical goodies.

caw

[SPMiller]

I like how she defends herself by claiming she wasn't specifically briefed about waterboarding. Who cares? That doesn't excuse her from supporting so-called EITs in general. She should know better than to try that slippery nonsense.

[Dommo]

I do get a kick out of how so many of the rats in congress are trying to flee from this sinking ship. Honestly, I'd at least come clean if I'd been briefed, but these cowardly assholes in congress are too concerned with being reelected than doing their jobs. If only terms were limited to like 10 years or something that way people couldn't make a career out of congressional service.

[Robert Toy]

the torture policy was not exclusively a republican policy. it's helpful for democrats to frame it that way, and they benefit further by the abysmal public perception of republicans right now. but there's a reason that there's not a spastic outcry by notable officials.

an interesting exchange, in fact, took place today:

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/05/07/1925394.aspx

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3544292&postcount=8

[whistlelock]

Well, I think if they go after Pelosi, we'll see a whole lot of people go down with her in a spectacle we haven't seen in a long time.

[donroc]

My personal favorite is the pear of pain. a large metal pear shaped instrument inserted into a body cavity of your choosing then expanded by an attached screw device (no pun intended).

...but I'am also partial to forcing an individual to listen to Donnie and Marie songs 24 hours a day, it's just so freaken cruel....

Nature has something similar, a small narrow fish in Brazil called the candiru, which can enter any human orifice and then can expand its sharp outer spine that clings to the flesh. Painful and difficult to remove.

By the 17th century in Spain, the Inquisition torture to save souls and to obtain information about heretics, sorcerers, Judaizers, and blasphemers but it had been mostly "limited" with physicians present, to the strappado, jarra (a form of water torture) on a rack, and candle flames placed close to the feet after they were covered with combustible oils.

The mental torture included long waits up to many years in the dungeons listening to screams, and before torture, walks past other devices no longer used including those mentioned above to further intimidate the victim.

[Robert Toy]

Well, I think if they go after Pelosi, we'll see a whole lot of people go down with her in a spectacle we haven't seen in a long time.
I would love to see it, but I think the names will just slowly fade with time...like Roland Burris, Larry Craig, William J. Jefferson, Christopher Dodd, etc., etc.

[JJ Cooper]

The mental torture included long waits up to many years in the dungeons listening to screams, and before torture, walks past other devices no longer used including those mentioned above to further intimidate the victim.

Techniques like these are still used with great effect.

From my experience, methods and techniques for interrogations are always approved at the political level for 'coverage'. Also from my experience, those who previously approved said methods/techniques, and took the glory of information obtained, have never hesitated in blaming the interrogators when the news is made public.

And, I'd like to add that interrogators take no pleasure in what they do. It's an important job that has the potential to screw your mind.

JJ

[SHBueche]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/07/torture-images-from-set-o_n_199121.html

I just saw the above images at huffingtonpost.com.

Anyway, 'enhanced interogations' has a much better ring to it, than torture.

[cethklein]

Intelligence officials released documents this evening saying that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) was briefed in September 2002 about the use of harsh interrogation tactics against al-Qaeda prisoners, seemingly contradicting her repeated statements over the past 18 months that she was never told that these techniques were actually being used.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/capitol-briefing/2009/05/cia_says_pelosi_was_briefed_on.html?hpid=news-col-blog

Obviously the CIA used memory erasure methods on Nancy…

I'm telling you, it's not memory erasure, it's the Botox. They just came out and said that Botox has been linked to deaths (Awwww, imagine that, injecting botulism into your face could kill you, whoda' thunk it? That's CRAZY talk!)

I'm sure it can also lead to memory (and sanity) loss too.

[AMCrenshaw]

who didn't know?



amc

[robeiae]

Bush?

[AMCrenshaw]

Bush?

indeed, but only because he doesn't know his ass from his elbow.

aw that's not fair, he probably does know his ass from his elbow.

(----ph)





amc

[dclary]

indeed, but only because he doesn't know his ass from his elbow.

aw that's not fair, he probably does know his ass from his elbow.

(----ph)





amc

"Laura? I wiped my elbow after I made poopies, but I still feel squishy."

"You need to wipe your ass too, dear."

"Oh. That's right. Thanks, honey!"

[donroc]

I have never forgotten that scene in Open City in which the Gestapo interrogator is using a blow torch on an Italian member of the Underground. It shocked all of us at the time.

And, remember, there were horrifying medical experiments sanctioned by the governments of the Nazis and Japanese, not to extract information, but for their "science" and war effort, and absolute sadism from the latter because it also involved adults and children of "inferior" races, who, in their minds,were no different than lab animals. Remarque in his bleak novel about life in a concentration camp, Spark of Life, describes injections of hydrochloric acid in male testicles.

There are films taken by the Germans in WWII regarding their most obscene practices, some in color, that have never been released to the general public because they go beyond what the mind can imagine. Every Holocaust denier should be subjected to them.

As for the Dominicans of the Spanish Inquisition, most were sincerely trying to save souls and to protect the populace from heresies and the worst rot of all within the Church: not Judaizers but Alumbrados/Illuminati who preached (to simplify) that sexual union was union with God as taught and practiced by Sor Marguite and the Beguines of Silesia among others.

Somehow waterboarding terrorists who have vowed to kill us to extract critical information is a walk in the park in the context of History. But, it must be a wonderful sensation to be an absolutist who can look in the mirror and say to one's self: I am against all war. I am against all tough interrogation for information that can save lives of our fellow Americans.

Back to Pelosi -- the dems need a credible speaker.

[Romantic Heretic]

Bush?
He knew. He just didn't care.

[dmytryp]

Hehehe (http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/33657_Pelosi_Accuses_CIA_of_Lying_to_Her_About_Wat erboarding)
She just keeps digging herself deeper and deeper. 20$ this thing sinks her

[Diana Hignutt]

I'm in favor of investigating (and punishing, if possible) any and all high-level officials involved regardless of political affiliation, even if that includes Obama and Pelosi. If that puts most of Congress in prison, fine. Tear that shit down.

I like the way you think! I agree 101%.

[Don]

Now that Pelosi claims the CIA lied to her, I see only one route to the real truth.

She'll have to be waterboarded. I don't see how we can trust her testimony otherwise.




:D

[Glenda]

I think they need to waterboard her to bring back her memory.

[Glenda]

Sorry Don, didn't see your post when I posted mine. :)

[Glenda]

Hehehe (http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/33657_Pelosi_Accuses_CIA_of_Lying_to_Her_About_Wat erboarding)
She just keeps digging herself deeper and deeper. 20$ this thing sinks her


We can hope for Change. :D Getting her out of office.

[William Haskins]

i was highly suspicious until i saw her statement. she was cool as a fuckin' cucumber. see for yourself:

http://www.breitbart.tv/html/339163.html

[Don Allen]

I've really come to just plain not like her. Mostly because she's just a purest when it comes to "suckass". Either you're against torture or for it, it's like being a little bit pregnant, there is no grey area. I wouldn't even fault her for saying something like Yeah, i knew but I didn't do anything about it. Just leave it at that, instead of trying to worm all the time.

My take on torture is simple, The USA is the biggest, baddest mother on the block and because we hold that status we're going to have to take the first punch in just about every challenge we face, we're also going to have to resist torturing some piece of shit low life, because to a man, woman and child, we're better than that.

If we can't win, or prevent someone from doing us great harm with the God given brains, guts and toughness this nations people have inherited from our forefathers, then fuck it, we go down, but we don't go down pulling the finger nails out of some dirty piece of shit who's only sense of valor comes from the attention we pay him....

[Zoombie]

Somehow waterboarding terrorists who have vowed to kill us to extract critical information is a walk in the park in the context of History. But, it must be a wonderful sensation to be an absolutist who can look in the mirror and say to one's self: I am against all war. I am against all tough interrogation for information that can save lives of our fellow Americans.

Back to Pelosi -- the dems need a credible speaker.

Maybe some of us want to hold our nation to higher ethical standards than "not as bad as the Nazis"

[MacAllister]

My take on torture is simple, The USA is the biggest, baddest mother on the block and because we hold that status we're going to have to take the first punch in just about every challenge we face, we're also going to have to resist torturing some piece of shit low life, because to a man, woman and child, we're better than that.

QFT.

And the cowardly POSs that say "well, we HAVE to torture people to protect ourselves, because, well, we *might* be in danger and they're not as human as WE are so they don't matter as much" absolutely deserve scorn and contempt from every single American with the courage and will to be stronger, more human, and more decent than our enemies.

[Zoombie]

<heaps scorn and contempt on cowardly POSes>

[donroc]

Maybe some of us want to hold our nation to higher ethical standards than "not as bad as the Nazis"

How about not anywhere close to being as bad as the Nazis, Soviets, and assorted authoritarian regimes? That is the reality. Learn more History.

[cethklein]

QFT.

And the cowardly POSs that say "well, we HAVE to torture people to protect ourselves, because, well, we *might* be in danger and they're not as human as WE are so they don't matter as much" absolutely deserve scorn and contempt from every single American with the courage and will to be stronger, more human, and more decent than our enemies.

Amen.

I've really come to just plain not like her. Mostly because she's just a purest when it comes to "suckass". Either you're against torture or for it, it's like being a little bit pregnant, there is no grey area. I wouldn't even fault her for saying something like Yeah, i knew but I didn't do anything about it. Just leave it at that, instead of trying to worm all the time.

My take on torture is simple, The USA is the biggest, baddest mother on the block and because we hold that status we're going to have to take the first punch in just about every challenge we face, we're also going to have to resist torturing some piece of shit low life, because to a man, woman and child, we're better than that.

If we can't win, or prevent someone from doing us great harm with the God given brains, guts and toughness this nations people have inherited from our forefathers, then fuck it, we go down, but we don't go down pulling the finger nails out of some dirty piece of shit who's only sense of valor comes from the attention we pay him....

I think that rings true for everyone, really.

Seriously, show of hands, is there ANYONE here who thinks favorably of Nancy Pelosi, even democrats?

Anyone?

Her argument that she was "waiting for an administration change" is not only asinine, it's an insult to pretty much everyone's intelligence. The only reason this half-wit ever became Speaker was because she's a woman. Were she equipped with different plumbing she'd be just another moron, self-centered politician in the ranks. Remember when she likened herself to Thatcher, calling herself "an Iron Lady". What a friggin joke.

[Zoombie]

Yes, we're not as bad as the Soviets, or the Nazis.

Heck, I still don't think we're as bad as we were in Vietnam, where we "relocated", what, a million or two Vietnamese?

But guess what...

Not being AS BAD as the fucking Soviets is NOT GOOD ENOUGH

We are the GOOD GUYS, goddamnit!

We should act like it.

Good guys don't torture people. Maybe that's idealistic and naive, but woulden't it be NICE if we practiced what we preached, put our money where our mouth was, and stopped being a giant hypocrite?

Cause GOD knows, the way we have been acting has done nothing to decrees terrorist attacks or anti-American activity.

If something does NOT work, you should TRY SOMETHING NEW.

If things get worse, go back to what you were doing before till you can think of something new.

But just doing the same thing is not going to work.

So lets try, just TRY...being the good guys again.

[Robert Toy]

Sept 2002

http://www.butasforme.com/2009/05/13/november-2002-two-months-after-waterboarding-briefing-pelosi-talks-intelligence/

Oops

[Zoombie]

The fascist in me really wants to just drag the lying, corrupt bastards who thought this torture shit was a good idea behind the watershed and give them a noodle.

The fascist in me only comes out when I'm sleepy and cranky and need my daily dose of virginal blood.