editing

[semilargeintestine]

I apologise if this is a stupid question, but how do you guys go about reworking and tinkering your poetry. I find that once I write them, even if they need some work, I don't know where to start. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

[Poetic_Justice]

I'm not sure if this'll help, but I'll try. Most of the poetry I write is form poetry (sonnets), and since I have such limited space to say what I'm going to say, I try to fine tune the exact images in my head. I try to make the image as vivid as possible, and kill any and all cliches that might pop up into my work. When I read through it, I ask myself if these are the best words possible to use? Are they evocative? Do they go for the jugular, or are they a little limp? Have I made all capital letter words/universal words (Love, Trust, God/dess, Hatred) palpable, or are they still vague? What about the rhyme scheme, if any? Are there patterns/ certain sounds that are used? Were they intentional, and if not, do you think they should or shouldn't be there.


Hope this helps,
--Poetic Justice

[moblues]

This is not a stupid question. You have obviously come across instances with your poetry where you felt you needed to fix a trouble spot. Change what bothered you in the first place. If it now works, great. If not, look at the whole piece. One word can make a difference.

I'm sure this wasn't much help. But this is my take for what it's worth.




Mike

[Rivana]

For me it's a lot of instinct. Sometimes I get crits on stuff and the rewrites offered aren't exactly what I had in mind, but maybe a few weeks or even months later I'll suddenly look at the same poem and know exactly what needs changing. Often it's related to the crits, but with my personal spin; the x-factor that makes the poetry my poetry and not just a bunch of words... yeah, not a great explanation, I know.

Other times I just put down the hours. I read the poem, I reread the poem, I try different ways of writing something I think doesn't quite ring the way I want it too. Sometimes I go from wanting to change that line or stanza or word to changing whole pieces of the rest of the poem instead, leaving that one disturbing line intact. Sometimes I find other wordings that work better with the flow of the poem and/or what I'm wanting to say.

Basically there is rhyme and reason when I edit poems, but not very much sense. Heh.
I've actually returned to poems years after starting/finishing them to edit. It's just the way it goes with me, things have to be allowed to take their time.

[semilargeintestine]

Actually, just hearing that it wasn't a stupid question helps a lot. I wrote a sestina today that isn't bad, but needs some work for sure. There were definitely some spots that I could fix that helped the rhythm, but I'm just not sure what else to do to make it better. I guess it will just come with writing over and over (and reading).

[blueobsidian]

When I have a poem that I know needs a little work, I just start by printing out a copy and underlining anything that seems a little off. I don't worry about how to change it at that point, just where I want changes. Having those markings gives me a way to focus. I'm the same as you in that I never know where to begin!

[Izz]

I apologise if this is a stupid question, but how do you guys go about reworking and tinkering your poetry. I find that once I write them, even if they need some work, I don't know where to start. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.Not a stupid question at all, and one i think most poets and writers have trouble with. Even if we realise a piece needs work we can often be too close to it to see exactly what the piece needs.

I got some good advice the other day: Cut everything non-essential to the poem - the fat, the flavor-text, the whatever you call it. Does the poem work just with bare bones? Probably not, but then you can put things back in and see if they work - as in, which fat is good fat, and which fat is just hanging there and serving no purpose except getting in the reader's way. And cutting things down to skeletal also helps you see if there are any major structural or logic issues with the poem.

Doesn't work quite as well for form poems, though you can still apply the principle - and build the structure around the essentials.

May not work for you, but i've found it's good advice for me :)

[Dichroic]

The crit forum's a great place to start!

[Norman D Gutter]

Semi:

I'm a big fan of revision. There is a school of poetry practitioners who say revision is bad; let the words flow and go with what comes out first. I am not of that school. The first flush of creativity may be good, but using the brain to improve what the heart generates is a good thing, IMHO.

How and how much you revise depends to some extent on your composition method. Do you mull the poem over in your head before it ever sees paper or pixels, or do you write as soon as it tickles the grey cells? I tend to mull things over, sometimes for weeks or months, before committing them to paper. So what I write is probably the equivalent of second (or even third) draft.

I write almost exclusively in forms, usually in meter and rhyme. So first thing I do is see how well I have followed the rules of the form. Meter usually needs much finesse to make it work well, with the right amount of regularity and the right amount of variability to make it pleasing but not juvenile. I check the rhymes to make sure they are not forced, that they sound erudite, that the meaning of the words that rhyme are exactly what I want, that the meaning seems primary and the rhyming secondary. I next check to make sure that poem makes sense for that form. Do the features of the form enhance the meaning, or does the poem seem "shoe-horned" in? I check all my line breaks, to make sure they are done well. With a rhyming poem in form this is a bit limited, but still the line breaks should make sense, even with rhyme.

Then I check to see if each word is pulling its weight in the poem. Since words are so limited, especially in forms, I want to make sure every word is necessary, and every word enhances the meaning. If I have used a modifier (adjective, adverb, or article), are they stuck in simply for meter and rhyme, or do they really add to the meaning--are they necessary to the poem? If not, I try to do something different.

All of this I normally do over time. While I'm a fan of revision, I'm not a fan of instant revision. I like my words to have time to simmer, or even cool down, to be brought out and savored later. If they still seem pretty good then, I go through it all once more to see what improvements could be made. At that point, I post it for critique, usually at the AW poetry critique forum.

Best Regards,
NDG

[AnonymousWriter]

The first thing I do is pare the poem down to essentials. Any uneeded words are deleted and I rephrase some lines if there is a shorter way of saying them. Less is more, especially in poetry.

[semilargeintestine]

Thanks guys. This is a big help.

[Teena]

Here's my $.02 worth:

delete filler words
play with adverbs
delete words that are awkward and used only to force rhyme or meter (if relevant)
randomly change words for a synonym or even an antonym
re-write entire individual lines using different words to mean exactly the same thing
re-write individual lines until they mean exactly the opposite as originally writtenand see if any of these juggles some brilliant idea loose. :Shrug:

[Duke]

A limited scope and scale of ability probably restricts me to merely metered rhyming verse because otherwise I’m fairly ignorant. I see many important points have been made already. But I’d suggest repairing almost any ambiguous phrase not designed for humor or surprise. Where a writer intends only clarity, readers may see an unwanted alternate meaning. Consider this blatant example:

“My father did not know John Smith. He died when he was three years old.”

Even less flawed phrasing may still unduly confuse a reader and weaken a line. At times, however, cryptic and mystical may be necessary elements in poetry. My mind sometimes interprets my own words in a different way after being set aside for a while – the words set aside, I mean. Maybe my mind, too. I dunno. I probably just now violated my own rule.