U.S. Postal Service going broke

[blacbird]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29877702

I think I've spotted one reason why:

Last week, the post office said it planned to offer early retirement to 150,000 workers and is eliminating 1,400 management positions

In other words, fewer than 1 in 100 to be cut are managers. I watched this syndrome happen several times while I was employed at a major huge international corporation: Layoffs touched few, sometimes no, management slots, with the result that the outfit was even more top-heavy in management after the layoff than before. Imagine the vast improvement in efficiency.

By the way, "early retirement" is a pre-euphemism for "layoff". They definitely want to get rid of 150,000 workerbees, one way or another.

Every post office I ever go to has a constant problem of short-staffing at the customer counters. Laying off a few more of those people will really help, yeah.

Earth to USPS: Step One: Stop subsidizing delivery of vast quantities of junk mail at artificially low postage rates. At least 2/3 of the mail I get consists of such crap, which goes instantly in the trash.

caw

[Medievalist]

Notice the drop off in "junk" mail? Junk mail funded the U.S. post office; companies can't afford "direct mail campaigns" any more. You've likely noticed a drop in catalogs, too.

[Diana Hignutt]

By the way, "early retirement" is a pre-euphemism for "layoff". They definitely want to get rid of 150,000 workerbees, one way or another.

caw


Not really. With early retirement we'll still be paying their pensions.

[Dommo]

The post office is nuts the whole way around.

The average joe mailman makes a lot of money and has a great benefits package, and the manages make some real bank. The pay is just way out of proportion for what these people do, because if you looked at private companies that provide a similar service, the employees aren't paid nearly as much.

So combine overpaid government workers, with an inefficient over managed bureaucracy and it's a recipe for disaster.

[Jean Marie]

Notice the drop off in "junk" mail? Junk mail funded the U.S. post office; companies can't afford "direct mail campaigns" any more. You've likely noticed a drop in catalogs, too.
Um, not really.

Since my mom died, her mail is all forwarded to me. Most of it, about 99% is junk.

Oh wait, the Post Office calls it first class. Yeah, right. It goes in the trash and piles up the landfill and blocks the view.

I didn't ask for the crap to be forwarded, but that's what I get. For an entire year. Oh boy.

[Don]

I know how to fix it. Let's merge them with the VA and let them take over health care. :roll:

[Medievalist]

Um, not really.

Since my mom died, her mail is all forwarded to me. Most of it, about 99% is junk.

Oh wait, the Post Office calls it first class. Yeah, right. It goes in the trash and piles up the landfill and blocks the view.

I didn't ask for the crap to be forwarded, but that's what I get. For an entire year. Oh boy.

No, I'm specifically talking about mail that is NOT seen as first class; it's commercial bulk mail, and it's handled very differently, by both sender and post offices.

I used to do the bulk mail for a software company; catalogs and regular pitch mailings for retailers. The mail is pre-sorted, bar-coded and franked. You can't even drop it off at all post offices since only some will handled bulk mail.

[Susan Gable]

I think one solution is going to be to stop Saturday delivery. I'm fine with that.

I think we can live with just weekday mail delivery since so much stuff is now done via computer anyway.

Susan G.

[Ken]

... the postal workers in my local branch are nice. I hope they don't lose their jobs :-(

[Clair Dickson]

I'm one of the people who's impacting the postal service. I pay nearly all my bills on line. I only get mail two or three days a week, tops. The rest of the time, it's usually direct mailing (flyers, coupons) or credit cards solicitations.

I don't buy many stamps to mail my bills. I haven't sent a card in years. The companies I pay for utilities and such don't buy postage because they sent me e-notices. (I print stuff off and record all transactions numbers.)

Less people are using the postal service. Just like less people have a landline (and I think very few have two or more landlines at home-- like I did when in my teens.)

And I do think that blacbird's right about their cuts not being as effective as possible. Slowing mail service won't help people want to continue using the postal service. But cutting management won't really hurt much (if anything), IMHO.

[MelodyO]

I...I can't believe you guys get Saturday delivery! We in Canada struggle through with only five days of delivery and pay 52 cents for a stamp. No wonder your postal system is going broke. Now I want to know - do you have door-to-door delivery, or, like a lot of Canada, do you have supermailboxes on the corner of the block where everyone goes to pick up their mail? I suspect I can guess the answer.

[alleycat]

Except for apartment complexes, in the US it's usually either delivered right to the door, or to your mailbox at the end of your driveway.

[GeorgeK]

do you have supermailboxes on the corner of the block where everyone goes to pick up their mail? I suspect I can guess the answer.

If you mean a post office box, we pay a premium for those

[Bird of Prey]

Problems with the postal service have a lot to do with privatization imho. It's just like the airlines. Deregulation did in a lot of airlines and made the service awful.

I live on the end of a dirt road, so the post office won't deliver. I fought with the staff there to no avail. The drive to the post office is about thirty-five minutes each way. Now I use the internet to receive most of my bills, get all my packages shipped UPS/ Fedex because they do deliver. I also remember how the USPS around six years ago was builidng brand new enormous buildings in the most rural of districts, I mean with barely a population. People in those vicinities used to laugh about it. So, I have no sympathy for the post office, other than the workers: needed, versus top heavy "managers": not needed.

[Bartholomew]

I...I can't believe you guys get Saturday delivery! We in Canada struggle through with only five days of delivery and pay 52 cents for a stamp. No wonder your postal system is going broke. Now I want to know - do you have door-to-door delivery, or, like a lot of Canada, do you have supermailboxes on the corner of the block where everyone goes to pick up their mail? I suspect I can guess the answer.

Some rural areas have pick-up points, but for the most part, mail is dropped off either at the door, or at a box next to the driveway.

[maestrowork]

Do people still send mail? ;)

[GeorgeK]

mail is dropped off either at the door, or at a box next to the driveway.

The USPS here, the guy will not get out of his car. He drives down and supposedly honks his horn before driving off and leaving a note, not in the mailbox at the road, but the post office box that we only check once a week. He will not deliver anything to the "door" because we have "unrestrained animals" aka freerange chickens. Even city people know that chickens are "chicken", right? The UPS lady thinks it's a hoot and has no problem coming up on the porch.

[Bird of Prey]

Do people still send mail? ;)

They certainly send packages.

[sassandgroove]

If you mean a post office box, we pay a premium for those
No Melody meant in Canada a neighbor hood has boxes in one place for the whole neighbor hood. A PO BOX is at the POst office.

I also don't have sympathy for the post office. I had to send a check to canada the other day forwork, and it was time sensitive as well as being , you know, a check. I don't do that very often, and the Post office website had incorrect info and I had to go to the post office twice. And I had to call customer service between visits to clarify what i needed. What a hassle. The only reason we used them over Fedex was price. But man how much more convienient Fedex would have been. I would have but my boss overruled.

[sassandgroove]

I'd be good with weekday only delivery. I mean the only mail I get that I need is bills. I'll wait til monday for those.

[Bird of Prey]

The USPS here, the guy will not get out of his car. He drives down and supposedly honks his horn before driving off and leaving a note, not in the mailbox at the road, but the post office box that we only check once a week. He will not deliver anything to the "door" because we have "unrestrained animals" aka freerange chickens. Even city people know that chickens are "chicken", right? The UPS lady thinks it's a hoot and has no problem coming up on the porch.

Oh I don't know, George. Are you sure some rooster didn't come up behind the poor mailman and give him a kick?

[James81]

The post office is nuts the whole way around.

The average joe mailman makes a lot of money and has a great benefits package, and the manages make some real bank. The pay is just way out of proportion for what these people do, because if you looked at private companies that provide a similar service, the employees aren't paid nearly as much.

So combine overpaid government workers, with an inefficient over managed bureaucracy and it's a recipe for disaster.

Are you kidding?

I had a paper route when I was a kid (which is sort of like a lesser version of a mail carrier), so I, at least, understand the shit these people have to deal with. Carrying paper that can't get wet in rain, snow, and sleet or walking miles in the hot summer sun isn't a picnic. Then you have to deal with people's pets (mostly yappy dogs) or hear them bitch about your service if you are 3 minutes late.

No thank you. You couldn't pay me enough to do that again, and they are anything but underpaid. At least those that deliver the mail.

[MattW]

My townhouse complex has one mail stop for every 15-20 addresses.

That's an efficient way to deliver. Unless all you get is credit card offers, catalogs, and refinance junk mail. I only ever go to the box when there's a Netflix disc out there, and it's stuffed full of crap I have to sort and shred.

[dclary]

Are you kidding?

I had a paper route when I was a kid (which is sort of like a lesser version of a mail carrier), so I, at least, understand the shit these people have to deal with. Carrying paper that can't get wet in rain, snow, and sleet or walking miles in the hot summer sun isn't a picnic. Then you have to deal with people's pets (mostly yappy dogs) or hear them bitch about your service if you are 3 minutes late.

No thank you. You couldn't pay me enough to do that again, and they are anything but underpaid. At least those that deliver the mail.

When Spamwise Hamgee earned his "of the quick post" deed in the Shire, he had many of the same problems, avoiding nosey hobbits, keeping the mail dry, not being able to fend off hungry wolves and giant harvest flies. It was brutal.

[robeiae]

The problem with the USPS is that it pretends to be a business, when it's just a bureaucracy. Why did the USPS open up store front branches in strip malls? To compete with Mail Boxes, Etc. type places. Why does the USPS offer bogus priority delivery options (2 OR 3 days)? To compete with FedEx. Stoooopid.

The USPS should be about delivering posted mail, nothing more. Every piece of mail should be weighed and require the exact same postage as all other pieces in a given weight class.

I have no expectations that the USPS will be efficient, at all. Why should it be? It's not run on a sound business model. And it's not run for the benefit of the citizens, but for the benefit of its own employees.

[Bird of Prey]

And it's not run for the benefit of the citizens, but for the benefit of its own employees.


As per most corporations. The postal service should not have been privatized. As far as I'm concerned, it's like privatizing the military. There are certain services required that fall under the heading of government entities, and they should stay that way. And of course, I'd add a few, like health care. I would have no problem with the USHCA: United States Health Care Agency. Another one would be US Mass Transit Service, so we could get from any point A to any point B via a system of rail.

[robeiae]

As per most corporations.No, that's just an easy shot to take. But I set it up for blacbird. He's gonna be mad that you got in his way...
The postal service should not have been privatized.I don't disagree, entirely. I'd like to not disagree, at all. But Congress WAS charged with setting up a postal system (by the Constitution), so the government must have some say.

[Don]

As per most corporations. The postal service should not have been privatized. As far as I'm concerned, it's like privatizing the military. There are certain services required that fall under the heading of government entities, and they should stay that way. And of course, I'd add a few, like health care. I would have no problem with the USHCA: United States Health Care Agency. Another one would be US Mass Transit Service, so we could get from any point A to any point B via a system of rail.
But see, as rob said, the Constitution DOES task FedGov with providing postal services, but not Health Care or Mass Transit. Pass an Amendment if you want those, don't let the crooks blindly legislate it.

As for the Postal Service, look at the history. That's one of the things FedGov is supposed to do, and they can't even get that right. What in hell are they doing with additional assignments when they can't get the basics done???

Oh, and FedGov DOES have a Mass Transit Service. It's called AmTrak. What a great thought, expanding that crappy-service, money-losing boondoggle to rip off even more of the taxpayer's money.

Thimk!

[robeiae]

But see, the Constitution DOES task FedGov with providing postal services...
You better start reading my posts, or I'm gonna box your ears like you wouldn't believe...

[Don]

But see, as rob said, the Constitution DOES task FedGov with providing postal services, but not Health Care or Mass Transit.

You better start reading my posts, or I'm gonna box your ears like you wouldn't believe...
You should read the whole post, slowly, before going off on a hissy fit. :D

Box my ears? Is that what Vincent did with his?

[Bird of Prey]

But see, the Constitution DOES task FedGov with providing postal services, but not Health Care or Mass Transit. Pass an Amendment if you want those, don't let the crooks blindly legislate it.

As for the Postal Service, look at the history. That's one of the things FedGov is supposed to do, and they can't even get that right. What in hell are they doing with additional assignments when they can't get the basics done???

Oh, and FedGov DOES have a Mass Transit Service. It's called AmTrak. What a great thought, expanding that crappy-service, money-losing boondoggle to rip off even more of the taxpayer's money.

Thimk!

Excuse me, but Amtrack was quasi-privatized and has been a mess because it isn't a completely nationalized service. Sorry, but that's what I think is the problem, Don. And the postal service was fine until it was privatized, and the airlines were fine until deregulation.

As soon as you add "Inc." to anything, it becomes a "screw the customer" enterprise. I'm willing to let competition mitigate that rather nasty component of capitalism to a degree, but ultimately the government should be handling essentials and take the "how do we take advantage of the customer/citizen" out of certain facets of society, like the military, the postal service, health care - yes, Don, health care - and basic interstate transportation.

[robeiae]

You should read the whole post, slowly, before going off on a hissy fit.

You know, the post shows not only your edit, but also the TIME of the edit. What are you, in Congress?

ETA: HA! BoP quoted the pre-edit version!

[Don]

.

You know, the post shows not only your edit, but also the TIME of the edit. What are you, in Congress?

ETA: HA! BoP quoted the pre-edit version!
Me? You're the one who's making my posts all about you, instead of complimenting me on my cogent arguments, or perhaps the cleverness of "Thimk!" That's a sure sign of a congresscritter if I ever saw one.

ETA: Not to mention your avatar. That's the face of a congresscritter if I ever saw one. :roll:

[Bird of Prey]

O.K. Just quit it. Stop changing your posts.

All of you.

[Don]

Sorry, BoP, didn't mean to get distracted by that congresscritter. :D Short version, you're wrong. :tongue How about some examples of fully-realized government bureaucracies that really work, then, if the problem is the privatization parts. I contend it's the bureaucratic, non-responsive parts that are mucking things up. TVA's another prime example, down there on the Ol' Mississippi, holding back the river from changing course with sheer determination and billions of our tax dollars.

Oh, or the levee programs the CoE has responsibility for. Those have been models of flawless execution too, right?

For every FedGov agency that is actually doing a great job, I can name 10 that fail miserably. At least in private industry, they would actually fail, instead of being financed forever at the expense of the taxpayer.

Oh, wait, they're just going to nationalize failed businesses from now on, right?

[robeiae]

How about some examples of fully-realized government bureaucracies that really work, then, if the problem is the privatization parts.
The IRS.

Case closed.

[Don]

The IRS.

Case closed.
:ROFL: You forgot the FDA, DoE (all of them), FBI, CIA, DHS, and their ugly stepchildren, TSA.

[Bird of Prey]

Oh, wait, they're just going to nationalize failed businesses from now on, right?

Lol!! At least it demonstrates consistency. . . .

Despite some fraud, Medicare and Medicaid essentially work. It's hard to come up with government agencies that work because so many have been foisted off on the private sector, but here's another: EPA. Sure, it's got problems, but there's a cleaner environment because of it: cleaner rivers, streams and all kinds of toxic areas detoxed.

[Bird of Prey]

The IRS.

Case closed.

Wait a minute. The IRS is not a government agency, is it?? I think it's a contractor.

[robeiae]

No, seriously. The IRS is nothing but bureaucracy...and it's wildly successful, by any standard.

But that's the problem. The IRS is a bonafide revenue-PRODUCING bureaucracy, a very rare species of bird, indeed. The other fed bureaucracies are revenue-DRAINING ones (with a few exceptions, like the SSA).

And revenue draining bureaucracies never become more efficient over time. In fact, they become less efficient. Always. And they almost never grow smaller over time. They usually grow larger. That means more revenue-draining from auto-growth and a greater percentage of waste from the nature of the beast. THIS is why the Fed is not supposed to be doing all the things it now does. It's supposed to do the bare minimum, nothing more. That bare minimum being: MAINTAIN THE SYSTEM.

[robeiae]

Wait a minute. The IRS is not a government agency, is it?? I think it's a contractor.
http://www.irs.gov/irs/article/0,,id=98141,00.html

The IRS is a bureau of the Department of the Treasury and one of the world's most efficient tax administrators.

[Don]

Medicare and Medicaid are functionally bankrupt. The EPA is toothless when it comes to the biggest polluter in the world -- FedGov. What a shocker. The EPA's failure to include trucks in CAFE (at the automakers behest) led directly to the SUV explosion everyone bemoans today. The 9/11 air ratings job they did is another ugly blotch on their record. I could go on... :)

[Bird of Prey]

No, seriously. The IRS is nothing but bureaucracy...and it's wildly successful, by any standard.



Well, as it hasn't been privatized - I thought even that had been outsourced - I would agree with you that it's wildly successful - but of course it's a rare animal with a unique function: collecting money. Hard to go wrong with that directive. But still, there are other government entities that do a decent job, but of course, they are a financial drain. My point is: they're not supposed to make outrageous amounts of money. They are supposed to provide a national service.

[Bird of Prey]

Medicare and Medicaid are functionally bankrupt. The EPA is toothless when it comes to the biggest polluter in the world -- FedGov. What a shocker. The EPA's failure to include trucks in CAFE (at the automakers behest) led directly to the SUV explosion everyone bemoans today. The 9/11 air ratings job they did is another ugly blotch on their record. I could go on... :)


Wait a minute, Don. We can find failure anywhere and everywhere. The measure of worth depends on the percentage of good versus well, not so good.

[robeiae]

Hard to go wrong with that directive.Untrue. It's very easy to go wrong, in fact. The IRS collects money like nobody's business. It's managed to get the the standard of the rule of law in the U.S. reversed, to that very end.

Throughout most of history, tax collection was actually THE biggest impediment to the growth and continuity of nations. The IRS, in and of itself, likely secures the perpetuity of the Union for many, many, many generations into the future. Doesn't mean it's right, however...

But still, there are other government entities that do a decent job, but of course, they are a financial drain. My point is: they're not supposed to make outrageous amounts of money. They are supposed to provide a national service.
Again, I don't completely disagree. But some of these entities do a crappy job. Yet, they grow in size year after year, even as their performance gets worse. That's a real problem, imo.

[Susan Gable]

I have no expectations that the USPS will be efficient, at all. Why should it be? It's not run on a sound business model. And it's not run for the benefit of the citizens, but for the benefit of its own employees.

A good arguement and precisely why I do not want to give "those people" (aka The Government) the health care system.

Susan G.

[Don]

Of course FedGov is good at extortion. So's the Mafia. It has nothing to do with the fact that they have the guns and own the courts.

[Bartholomew]

Do people still send mail? ;)

Despite what the government says, I don't define corporations as entities. So no.

[blacbird]

Again, I don't completely disagree. But some of these entities do a crappy job.


I don't think I've ever seen you say anything good about any government agency. But if only some do a crappy job, the implication is that some, perhaps many, do a good job. So, I'm interested in hearing from you what governmental agencies you think work well.

caw

[Christine N.]

Government workers have great benefits and pay because you have to bribe SOMEONE to do those thankless jobs.

[Unique]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29877702

I think I've spotted one reason why:



In other words, fewer than 1 in 100 to be cut are managers. I watched this syndrome happen several times while I was employed at a major huge international corporation: Layoffs touched few, sometimes no, management slots, with the result that the outfit was even more top-heavy in management after the layoff than before. Imagine the vast improvement in efficiency.

By the way, "early retirement" is a pre-euphemism for "layoff". They definitely want to get rid of 150,000 workerbees, one way or another.

Every post office I ever go to has a constant problem of short-staffing at the customer counters. Laying off a few more of those people will really help, yeah.

Earth to USPS: Step One: Stop subsidizing delivery of vast quantities of junk mail at artificially low postage rates. At least 2/3 of the mail I get consists of such crap, which goes instantly in the trash.

caw

Those are key points bb. A recent change was in the way they delivered magazines. Bonus points to the big slicks and a royal farkin' to the little indies. That was stupid.

I'd hate to lose the USPS for two very important reasons.
Letters - yes real letters on paper - are delivered quickly. They do this very well.

Book rate. Libraries cannot do w/o this. If UPS/FedEx cannot pick up the slack - good luck getting your Interlibrary loans for research.

I use book rate all the time - personally - not for library work. I ship books and other media for various and sundry reasons. Going w/o Media Mail would piss me off immesurably, not to mention what a cramp it would be in the way I conduct my life.

[Bird of Prey]

Government workers have great benefits and pay because you have to bribe SOMEONE to do those thankless jobs.


Well, Christine, I sure wish I could agree with you. Somehow or another the benefits for being a single term Congressman/woman seem to be more than bribery. Seems to me it's absolute theft. Boy I'd love to have a big, fat lifetime pension for a few years of sitting my little ass up in Washington D.C., working out every day, going to cocktail parties and lunches, having everybody buying for me because they want a favor. And I'd be really grateful to have a health care plan like that. Lol!!

[dclary]

I don't think I've ever seen you say anything good about any government agency. But if only some do a crappy job, the implication is that some, perhaps many, do a good job. So, I'm interested in hearing from you what governmental agencies you think work well.

caw

The U.S. Marine Corps is actually *very* good at what it does.

[dclary]

Well, Christine, I sure wish I could agree with you. Somehow or another the benefits for being a single term Congressman/woman seem to be more than bribery. Seems to me it's absolute theft. Boy I'd love to have a big, fat lifetime pension for a few years of sitting my little ass up in Washington D.C., working out every day, going to cocktail parties and lunches, having everybody buying for me because they want a favor. And I'd be really grateful to have a health care plan like that. Lol!!

Are you purposefully twisting her statement, BOP? Or do you really equate government workers (ie postal workers, IRS clerks, forest rangers, and other union, blue-collared skilled labor) to elected officials?

[Alpha Echo]

Yeah, most of my bills I pay online. The only ones that I don't pay online I drop off - like my rent check each month and my water bill that charges a ridiculous fee for paying online.

I still get cards at Christmas and for my bday, but I don't ever send cards out (even though every Christmas, I say I'm going to).

Most of the time, all I get is junk. Advertisements from grocery stores and credit card offers.

But I do feel for the USPS workers, the ones that do deliver the mail. I mean, it's a job. And like so many other jobs out there, the PEOPLE that handle the job are being taken over by new technology - the ability to do everything online. Though I love the convenience of paying online, and that in itself has opened up NEW job opportunities for people, I feel bad that these workers might lose jobs. I mean, in my old neighborhood, that guy worked all freaking day. We didn't get our mail until after 6pm b/c of the outrageous population in this area.

[Bird of Prey]

Are you purposefully twisting her statement, BOP? Or do you really equate government workers (ie postal workers, IRS clerks, forest rangers, and other union, blue-collared skilled labor) to elected officials?

I don't think those a shitty jobs, if that's what she's trying to say. A lot of people would love to be forest rangers, and IRS "clerks" aren't exactly put upon, certainly no more than some accountant in a private firm. And yes, the Feds all enjoy benefits as full-time employees that the private sector "work force" can only dream about. It's another reason that I'm for nationalizing a lot of the services that so much of the greedy pigdom called executive management in corporate America has utterly failed at.

And if you want to be set for life, get elected to Congress, serve a few years and retire. You can even write a book about it.

[James81]

I don't think those a shitty jobs, if that's what she's trying to say. A lot of people would love to be forest rangers, and IRS "clerks" aren't exactly put upon, certainly no more than some accountant in a private firm.

I assume that you have worked all of these jobs, seeing as how you can make an assertion like that.

Personally, I try not to judge what other people's jobs are like unless I've been there and done that. It's really easy to make judgements from the outside looking in. It's another thing when you actually work the position.

I'll tell you one thing for a fact: There is a very defining line in government work. You either have people who are complete wastes of flesh doing bullshit jobs that merely amount to putting in time, or you have the movers and the shakers who are abundantly OVERworked, rushing around frantically trying to do the job of five people.

There is very little "in between" in the government jobs. And funnily enough, people will judge ALL gov. employees based on the first set of people, which is highly unfair.

[Romantic Heretic]

For most of the last thirty years the U.S. government has been run by people who hate government. How can you expect it to work well?

It's like putting the German High Command in charge of the Allied landings on D-Day. They have a vested interest in it failing.

[Don]

You're kidding, right? Politicians luuuurrrv government. It's how they get paid. What politicians hate are the American people. They're too concerned with their perks and their corporate buddies to worry about the average joe, and they'd just as soon he went away.

GWB increased the size of government by leaps and bounds, and pulled cute tricks like the Patriot Act and the Medicare Prescription Drug Plan that meant even more intrusion into the lives of the citizens.

If the U.S. government had been run by people who hate government for the last thirty years, it would be 10% of the size it was thirty years ago, instead of many times as big.

[Bird of Prey]

I assume that you have worked all of these jobs, seeing as how you can make an assertion like that.

Personally, I try not to judge what other people's jobs are like unless I've been there and done that. It's really easy to make judgements from the outside looking in. It's another thing when you actually work the position.

I'll tell you one thing for a fact: There is a very defining line in government work. You either have people who are complete wastes of flesh doing bullshit jobs that merely amount to putting in time, or you have the movers and the shakers who are abundantly OVERworked, rushing around frantically trying to do the job of five people.

There is very little "in between" in the government jobs. And funnily enough, people will judge ALL gov. employees based on the first set of people, which is highly unfair.

I assume you have worked all these jobs, seeing as how you can make an assertion like that.

[James81]

I assume you have worked all these jobs, seeing as how you can make an assertion like that.

I wouldn't have made the assertion otherwise. ;)

[Bird of Prey]

I wouldn't have made the assertion otherwise. ;)

Hah!! Touche, James.

[dclary]

You either have people who are complete wastes of flesh doing bullshit jobs that merely amount to putting in time, or you have the movers and the shakers who are abundantly OVERworked, rushing around frantically trying to do the job of five people.



True story:

DMV line.

8 people in front of me.

3 clerks.

2 clerks handle a customer each.

3rd clerk handles 5.

3rd clerk takes her 15 minute break.

When she came back, she helped me too.

[Don]

...and the DMV manager is telling his boss that he needs to hire more staff, because some customers have to wait a half-hour or more for service -- when his real reason is that if the office goes from 3 to 4 clerks, the manager moves up a grade in pay.

...and the DMV manager's boss tells his boss he needs to expand that branch, because when he gets 3 4-clerk branches, he moves up a grade in pay.

...and his boss, on ad infinitum... and nobody has any problem with that, because they'll just get more funds from higher rates, since there's no competition, or they'll let the local, state or national politicians extort some more money and pass them a share.

[Alpha Echo]

I'll tell you one thing for a fact: There is a very defining line in government work. You either have people who are complete wastes of flesh doing bullshit jobs that merely amount to putting in time, or you have the movers and the shakers who are abundantly OVERworked, rushing around frantically trying to do the job of five people.

There is very little "in between" in the government jobs. And funnily enough, people will judge ALL gov. employees based on the first set of people, which is highly unfair.

I have found this to mostly be true...working for the government myself. The people that I support are BUSY and (mostly) keep me busy. But there are some people in this organization...that don't do a damn thing. But it does seem to be the trend that there's those that work, and those that don't.

[MaryMumsy]

The problem with the USPS is that it pretends to be a business, when it's just a bureaucracy. Why did the USPS open up store front branches in strip malls? To compete with Mail Boxes, Etc. type places. Why does the USPS offer bogus priority delivery options (2 OR 3 days)? To compete with FedEx. Stoooopid.

The USPS should be about delivering posted mail, nothing more. Every piece of mail should be weighed and require the exact same postage as all other pieces in a given weight class.

I have no expectations that the USPS will be efficient, at all. Why should it be? It's not run on a sound business model. And it's not run for the benefit of the citizens, but for the benefit of its own employees.

1) they are not competing with Mail Boxes Etc type stores. Those stores do not deal with outgoing letter type mail. You're lucky if they have an outgoing mail drop box outside (provided by the USPS). And the store front USPS branches don't have boxes for incoming mail.

2) they compete very well with FEDEX on the priority shipments.

I have a PO receipt from today. First large envelope cost $3.21, will be there Sat (FEDEX charges extra for Sat delivery) or Mon. Same envelope through FEDEX would get there Mon and cost $17.22. Next large envelope, same delivery time frame, PO cost $2.36, FEDEX would cost $15.02. Third (larger) envelope, same delivery time frame, PO cost $4.50, FEDEX would cost $17.65. And those FEDEX costs are based on me taking to an actual FEDEX location, not a drop box or home pick-up.

3) and didn't FEDEX report they lost money last year, too?

MM

[dclary]

1) they are not competing with Mail Boxes Etc type stores. Those stores do not deal with outgoing letter type mail. You're lucky if they have an outgoing mail drop box outside (provided by the USPS). And the store front USPS branches don't have boxes for incoming mail.


Mailboxes Etc, and most of its competitors DO take outgoing mail. They use the USPS and UPS and FedEx as necessary, and in some ways, they're superior to the post office because you can choose which method you want to use.

They also offer street-address po boxes, which UPS and Fed Ex will deliver to, unlike the Post Office, which does not.

[MaryMumsy]

I use all the services. USPS, FEDEX, and UPS. Which ever is more beneficial for what I'm sending. I guess my point was that there is room for all of them. If I need to send something overnight from AZ to (small town)VA, the post office won't get it there, FEDEX will (it will cost me $50, but 'oh well'). But for normal letter/large envelope mail the USPS is cheaper. And the last time I wanted to mail something from MBE, they didn't have outgoing for customers. Maybe that varies according to the franchise holder.

MM

[robeiae]

1) they are not competing with Mail Boxes Etc type stores. Those stores do not deal with outgoing letter type mail. You're lucky if they have an outgoing mail drop box outside (provided by the USPS). And the store front USPS branches don't have boxes for incoming mail.Those storefront branches were put there precisely to "keep up" with Mail Boxes, Etc. type stores, not just for packages, but for supplies and for PR. But you're right, they DON'T compete. They represent a colossal waste of money on the part of the USPS.
2) they compete very well with FEDEX on the priority shipments.Well see, the problem here is two-fold:

1) The USPS couldn't guarantee a 2-day delivery for a long time (I don't know of that's still the case) so they had a moronic 2-3 day guarantee. Now, if you're mailing something that just needs to be there "quickly," no problem. But if it's a true necessity that it's there in 2 days, you didn't go to the USPS. And of course, FedEx tracking (and UPS tracking) was waaaay out in front of the USPS. The USPS is RESPONDING to initiatives by their COMPETITORS, or at least that's what it pretends to do.

2) The real cost of mailing things via the USPS is not what an individual pays, per item. Never has been. So pricewise, it more bogus "competition."


3) and didn't FEDEX report they lost money last year, too?
Don't know. But FedEx is a business. If it loses money, it changes or keeps losing money, then goes belly up. Do you think that's actually true for the USPS?

[Bird of Prey]

I knew there was something to this:


Looking To Save, IRS Stops Outsourcing Collections
by Scott Horsley

March 6, 2009
IRS Chief: Agency Works With Taxpayers In TroubleObama Cracks Down On Government Contractors

All Things Considered, March 6, 2009 · The Internal Revenue Service will stop using private contractors to collect delinquent taxes. Instead, the government plans to hire more of its own collection agents.

That's one small reversal of a trend toward government outsourcing that accelerated during the Bush administration. Last year, the government spent almost $500 billion on contractors.

For the past couple of years, the IRS has been using private bill collectors to go after delinquent taxpayers. The contractors work on commission and keep up to $1 for every $4 they bring in.

IRS employees have long argued they could do the same job more cheaply in-house, and independent observers agree. But Colleen Kelley, who heads the IRS workers' union, says that during the Bush administration, saving money wasn't the point.

"This was an initiative by the previous administration to privatize federal jobs," Kelley says. "It was never about how the work could be done at the least cost and most efficiently for taxpayers. If that had been the criteria from the beginning, this program would never have gotten started."

As government contracts go, the IRS project was small potatoes: in the tens of millions of dollars. But this week, President Obama ordered government-wide changes in contracting, saying that could save taxpayers some $40 billion a year.

"We will stop outsourcing services that should be performed by the government and open up the contracting process to small businesses," Obama said. "We will end unnecessary and no-bid and cost-plus contracts that run up a bill that is paid by the American people."

Contracts with the two IRS bill collection companies expire Friday, and the government says they won't be renewed. The IRS says keeping the collection function in-house will not only be more cost-effective, but it also will provide more flexibility for cash-strapped taxpayers, because IRS employees can offer more payment options than the private contractors could. . . .

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/federal-eye/2008/12/lawmakers_ask_obama_to_end_irs.html

[Don]

"We will stop outsourcing services that should be performed by the government and open up the contracting process to small businesses," Obama said. "We will end unnecessary and no-bid and cost-plus contracts that run up a bill that is paid by the American people."
If Obama sticks to this, he's earned another brownie point, IMO.

[blacbird]

There is a very defining line in government work. You either have people who are complete wastes of flesh doing bullshit jobs that merely amount to putting in time, or you have the movers and the shakers who are abundantly OVERworked, rushing around frantically trying to do the job of five people.

Certainly true. And equally true of any large corporation I've ever worked for, or with. And one of the key reasons I got out of that scenario and started my own business.

caw

[blacbird]

An anecdote, which I realize doesn't constitute a generalization: I do a lot of business with clients far away, and send them technical reports for which I get paid (mostly). I've never had USPS lose anything via Express Mail, which I do use with some regularity.

On the other hand, I had UPS (not USPS) actually destroy two sets of such reports for a project worth about $25,000 a few years ago. I found out when a client complained that the reports promised had not been received. There were to be two recipients of these reports, and when I checked, the second recipient hadn't got them, either. I ferreted the matter down to my local UPS office, where they handed me a plastic bag filled with shredded material that had got caught in a conveyor belt. Despite the destruction, my name, address and phone number were plainly visible on a label even through the plastic bag. They hadn't made step one to contact me about it. When I asked why, the response I got all the way up the chain of command was "Not my job."

Not only that, the sonsabitches refused to reimburse me even for the cost of shipping, even when I produced the receipt for such. I've never been closer to committing homicide in my life. The only good news is that my clients accepted my apology and understood when I sent newly constructed reports a few days later. Those cost me several hundred dollars to produce, and I couldn't in good conscience charge that to the clients, so I ate it.

That was around fifteen years ago, and I've never used UPS for a damn thing since, and I've recommended to all my friends that they never do, including a particular state agency which now uses either FedEx or DHL for all their shipping, as a consequence. And I hereby recommend the same to all of you. I figure I've cost the bastards that shipping fee about fifty times over by now. And I'm going to keep doing that until the sun gets big and red and fries the earth to a cinder.

I've never had a problem with any other private shipping service, and I've used several.

caw