HUGE eBook pirating site [Archive] - Absolute Write Water Cooler

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Saskatoonistan

03-19-2009, 04:39 AM

Freakin' Russians:

http://greylib.net

It's a HUGE site folks. Everyone is on there.

jvc

03-19-2009, 04:52 AM

Which doesn't make it right.

swvaughn

03-19-2009, 04:54 AM

I think that by "everyone is on there", Sask means "search for your book and demand that the site take it down."

:D He's already shut down two pirating sites with his mad internet skillz.

ETA: I'm not on there. *sniff* No one wants to steal my ebook! Man, and I wanted to complain, too...

jvc

03-19-2009, 04:55 AM

Okery dokery.

Saskatoonistan

03-19-2009, 04:57 AM

Viking Horse

03-19-2009, 09:11 AM

I really can't stand any form of pirating, though I must admit I don't think I've ever heard of it with books before. I must have known it was going on somewhere down the line, but it really doesn't get a lot of the media attention that - I suppose I just assumed it wasn't that widespread a problem, what, with libraries and all.

Want to know what's even more horrible? One of my initial thoughts to this was, Hey, at least they're still reading! :tongue

Kidding aside, good luck in your endeavor.

benbradley

03-19-2009, 09:33 AM

I really can't stand any form of pirating, though I must admit I don't think I've ever heard of it with books before.
There's been a Usenet binaries group that has had technical books for many years. Of course, there's everything you could possibly want as well as thing you don't want on Usenet.
I must have known it was going on somewhere down the line, but it really doesn't get a lot of the media attention that - I suppose I just assumed it wasn't that widespread a problem, what, with libraries and all.

Want to know what's even more horrible? One of my initial thoughts to this was, Hey, at least they're still reading! :tongue

Kidding aside, good luck in your endeavor.
One might argue that Google Books does something quite similar, on the other hand Google only shows you images of the text (inconvenient for stealing but not too hard if you're determined) whereas I looked through the Childrens section of this greybook thing and saw a Harry Potter audiobook as mp3.

But no doubt pirated book sites don't have anywhere near the traffic that illegal music sites and P2P programs have. I think more than anything else it's because people don't want to read a book on a computer screen or printed out on 8 1/2 x 11 sheets that keeps books from being pirated any more than they are. When e-readers become cheaper, more convenient and more "book-like" and you can upload your own files to them, book piracy will become more common.

Medievalist

03-19-2009, 09:58 AM

There's some malware running on that site. If you go there, be cautious.

Nivarion

03-19-2009, 10:16 AM

yes medievalist, thank you for the after the matter heads up there.

I don't have an anti virus for crying out loud! it took me forever to squash that thing. but I'm all better now. it's okay baby, dady isn't going to any more infected Russian sights with you. (I'm talking to my computer)
but nasty maleware regaurdless

Man this sight is awesome, I already got all of yall's books. IRU's is really good and ... oh, this is a bad sight. (hits delete key rapidly)

but all joking aside, why in the hell would you take the time to steal a book, when you tax dollars already go to the big building of books that are free to read? I mean really, your already paying for them and as long as you take them back every two weeks for a recheck until your done you don't even have to pay a cent. can take as many as you want out at a time too. I mean music I can understand, Radio never plays that song you want to hear and the WNG's war on youtube, coupled with the fact that its so gosh darned easy to use them afterwords, but books! I mean really. The impracticability of it is towering.

go to the library. if its a popular book they will get more copies just. ahg.

jubileerocker

03-19-2009, 10:19 AM

oh man they don't have the comic book I've been trying to find all day

jubileerocker

03-20-2009, 12:18 AM

Viking Horse

03-20-2009, 08:41 AM

There's some malware running on that site. If you go there, be cautious.

Oh, drat! My virus scanner didn't detect anything off hand, but I'll run a scan just to be sure. Mind you, I just clicked on the link and tried out the search feature, I didn't actually download or open up anything; hopefully that means I've been spared. :(

elae

03-20-2009, 04:42 PM

I thought after I posted my last post in this thread last night. Before anyone thinks I'm into pirating let me explain...

My son loves colorful comic books, the nearst retailer is 147 miles from here. Last time I went into that area to pick up a comic book I tried reading it with him but he got sooo excited that he practicly shredded the book. In my situation what is the best thing to do except read them online?

Buy a copy too, if you're going to insist on downloading it, so that the company gets paid and creators can earn their royalties. Comics don't pay amazingly well.

Or try laminating the pages. I think he'd be a lot more interested in something he could hold in his hands (if that's him in your avatar) than just looking at a screen.

citymouse

03-20-2009, 05:18 PM

Oh, char! I'm not listed. I'm feeling very left out.
Just joking. This is a serious situation. I did see some big names listed. I wonder if any of those folks are trying to shut down these sites and perhaps recoup any losses?
C

jubileerocker

03-23-2009, 11:22 AM

Buy a copy too, if you're going to insist on downloading it, so that the company gets paid and creators can earn their royalties. Comics don't pay amazingly well.

Or try laminating the pages. I think he'd be a lot more interested in something he could hold in his hands (if that's him in your avatar) than just looking at a screen.

I agree I rather the royalties get paid if I'm going to read them, how do I laminate comic books though?

elae

03-23-2009, 04:45 PM

I agree I rather the royalties get paid if I'm going to read them, how do I laminate comic books though?

Just buy a pack of self-adhesive laminating sheets. All it is is sticky, see-through plastic... put it on one side, turn the page, put it on the back, trim all the excess.

Ms.Pissypants

07-18-2009, 12:13 PM

Workin' on it.... pant, pant!

Well, you haven't seen anything yet.

Audiobooks are the up and coming media.

Approx. 50.000 or more audiobooks and ebooks are available on this Site, the largest of it's kind on the Internet.
Canada/Montreal based.
At this very moment 123 Guests, 608 Users

http://www.audiobookemporium.no-ip.com

Please tell your friend to inform the CRIA

Another but much smaller Site is:

http://www.wordhaven.biz

Those Sites will open up all your eyes,get them down.They hurt the Authors,Publishers and Distributors.

veinglory

07-19-2009, 01:57 AM

I also am not sure the comment about Russians is warranted. The problem is being pirates, not being Russians.

Aquilegia

07-19-2009, 02:26 AM

Backing up Veinglory, here. Not condoning the pirating, but not only was the comment about Russians unnecessary, it was also inaccurate since that site's owned by an Uzbek. Look it up. Entirely possible not a single Russian was involved in the creation of this site. All right, fine, I suppose "Freakin' Sov's" might be a little closer to being accurate, albeit out of date. Kind of like blaming the Brits for a pirating site run by an Indian (not to pick on Indians; it's just an "Empire" comparison).

Gillhoughly

07-19-2009, 03:11 AM

I've been getting Google alerts for months about my books being pirated. I have to go through hoops to prove I own the copyright, and then they take the books down, but soon they pop up again.

They're doing it to my audiobooks, now.

Lately they're on sites there you have to pay a fee and get membership before you can access the page where your book is. You can't just ask them to look for your stuff, you have to give the exact webpage addy. I just can't do it. I don't have the money or time to spare.

One of my friends estimated that last year alone she lost 8,000.00 in royalties due to piracy of her books. As she is scary smart and knows how businesses work, I trust her figures. Don't know about you, but to me that is a hell of a lot of money.

You can tell those who think piracy is "harmless and helps promote the books" that it has the opposite effect.

Illegal downloads are invisible to the bean counters at a publishing house.

All they note is sales are dropping for a writer, who is otherwise wildly popular.

Times being what they are, they are reluctant to offer a new contract to that writer.

Result for the writer? Nothing good. Sales are down, royalties aren't there. Why bother with writing when a day job pays better and has health insurance?

Result for the reader? No new books from a writer they liked.

But hey, why worry, all writers are rich, right?

I wish! http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/icons/icon8.gif

Medievalist

07-19-2009, 03:54 AM

Piracy tells writers "don't bother."

Piracy kills books.

I am not at all sympathetic towards pirates.

But the limited data and research i've seen suggests that most people who pirate would never buy the books anyway.

My data is derived from surveys of thousands of incoming freshmen at UC; that's a pretty selective group. Has anyone else seen any research? Keep in mind that music research doesn't really apply to books, even audio books.

cdoctor13

07-19-2009, 03:56 AM

Corey Doctorow has said (and I agree) that people who pirate ebooks and audio books were not going to buy that particular work to begin with.

frimble3

07-19-2009, 04:30 AM

Just buy a pack of self-adhesive laminating sheets. All it is is sticky, see-through plastic... put it on one side, turn the page, put it on the back, trim all the excess.
Or, if you're going through a lot of comic books, and not keeping all of them, you might try clear plastic page protectors for ring-binders. Cut the spine out of the comic, slide the pages into the protectors, gather the protectors, with an actual cover, or just use metal split-rings (or tie them together with something baby-safe) and there you are.
If he eventually loses interest in a particular comic, you can slide it out and reuse the stuff.
Also, saves you from having to apply the laminating plastic smoothly over the pages, page after page.

RG570

07-19-2009, 04:48 AM

Corey Doctorow has said (and I agree) that people who pirate ebooks and audio books were not going to buy that particular work to begin with.

This is what I've been wanting to post, but decided not to bother because of the inevitable wrath here.

"Piracy" is such an outdated term anyway. I don't think it applies anymore. It's more like free marketing, but I guess an author with imaginary numbers of losses in his head isn't going to be able to see it that way. Not yet, anyway. Which is fine--I'm sure complaining to NGOs with zero real authority does make a person feel better inside. But maybe soon more artists will realize that working with this gets you much farther than fighting it.

Gillhoughly

07-19-2009, 10:05 PM

"Piracy" is such an outdated term anyway. I don't think it applies anymore. It's more like free marketing, but I guess an author with imaginary numbers of losses in his head isn't going to be able to see it that way. Not yet, anyway. Which is fine--I'm sure complaining to NGOs with zero real authority does make a person feel better inside. But maybe soon more artists will realize that working with this gets you much farther than fighting it.

Yes, expect wrath. I'm a working writer and need every penny I earn.

Every time some thief posts my books without my permission, that's money coming out of my pocket, never mind the copyright infringement.

Those were not imaginary numbers my friend quoted.

She is one scary smart individual and does those kinds of projections in her day job. She was also being conservative.

I do not complain to the hosts of such sites. Being rude gets you nowhere. I am polite, and they return in kind by removing the material. When they do, I thank them.

I maintain that they are in the wrong for turning a blind eye to the thousands who post copyrighted material and, while giving lip service to copyright and the DMCA, continue to allow it, and allow offenders to repost. They make no effort to police their content, and claiming they just don't have time to check everything. They sure do have time to check their bank accounts as the ad money rolls in.

It IS piracy. Free marketing is exactly the kind of term a thief will use to defend his or her actions. It cuts no ice with me or other professionals.

Cory Doctrow may be right, but the younglings coming up now need to be educated. Time and again I see them assuming that if it's on the Net, then it's free. They have never heard of copyright, no one has taken the time to tell them just how it hurts the writers they love.

Again, those downloads are invisible to the beancounters.

No arguing that libraries loans are invisible. Librarians keep track of the times a title is checked out and order more books from that writer. The publishers keep track of library sales, same as they do for bookstore sales.

No arguing that used bookstores may also hurt the writers. At some point those books were counted as a legit sale.

And used bookstores do not sell or give away an endless supply of Xerox copies.

No one try telling me that the thieves aren't getting something out of it. They put stuff up on sites so they can download other things they want more. They post on sites where they earn a few pennies off each download. (Usually it's a porn site.)

I've tracked one dufus across the main download sites. He signs his pseudonym and tells people to "enjoy" at my expense. He's not posted other books, just mine, so I can safely conclude he's a fan who thinks he's doing me a favor. I'd like to wring his lazy neck. Most of the sites tend toward getting the money for him when people click on his links, the lazy bast%%d. If he's got time to steal from me and earn a few pennies on a porn site, he's got time to get a job; I've got no sympathy for any of them.

Last fall some moron posted his whole e-library on the Net, inviting everyone to download and read all the books. He'd gotten himself a website and it was free.

He was being altruistic out of bald-faced ignorance. He honestly did not know how illegal that was.

Of course the hundreds of writers, including myself, and their publishers saw things differently. They went after his host server, and he was closed down within a day.

To his credit, he did apologize. He never had copyright ownership explained to him.

10er

07-20-2009, 03:38 PM

Prozyan

07-20-2009, 04:25 PM

I agree with this.
The only reason I would ever defend my copyright (should I ever attain sufficient popularity to get "pirated" :() would be that I don't want to lose it, as can apparently happen when you turn a blind eye despite copyright infringement taking place where you can see it.
Which is, by the way, one of the dumbest laws I have heard of in my life.

You might feel different when and if you ever start making your living by writing.

10er

07-20-2009, 05:12 PM

You might feel different when and if you ever start making your living by writing.

No, I don't think so.
Because it's a fact that there are many writers out there making good money despite piracy.
If I can't, my only conclusion is that my writing isn't popular enough.

But this is just one of those arguments I can't win.
If I'm not published, I get replies like yours.
If I'm super-successful, I'll get "Pah, you can't understand the suffering of people less fortunate than you".
If I'm at the same level of moderate success as the person I'm discussing with, I'll probably get "You're implying my writing isn't popular enough. That's arrogant and rude and I hate you."

vox

07-20-2009, 05:40 PM

This is what I've been wanting to post, but decided not to bother because of the inevitable wrath here.

"Piracy" is such an outdated term anyway. I don't think it applies anymore. It's more like free marketing, but I guess an author with imaginary numbers of losses in his head isn't going to be able to see it that way. Not yet, anyway. Which is fine--I'm sure complaining to NGOs with zero real authority does make a person feel better inside. But maybe soon more artists will realize that working with this gets you much farther than fighting it.

That may be true in the current business model. But what happens a few years down the road after these "silly" copyright laws have been removed?

If all stays as it is today, you have no problem. But it's very unlikely that things would stay the same.

At first, there's probably no noticable change in sales figures. BUT as word spreads, it would trigger a slow migration of the paying customer. And at some point, the publishing world implodes because you have initiated a complete paradigm shift. No one in their right mind would pay money for something that they could legally get for free, would they? And are all these wonderful authors going to keep churning out books when they can't get paid for it anymore? Of course not.

Feel free to turn a blind eye to your own particular loss, but what you're suggesting has widespread implications that can't be ignored.

10er

07-20-2009, 06:05 PM

No one in their right mind would pay money for something that they could legally get for free, would they?

I buy movies I can legally record from TV in HD quality and with commercial breaks cut out. And no, I don't care about the DVD extras.
I buy songs I can legally stream from Youtube or the artist's own Myspace (!) any time I want in very decent (I'm no audiophile) sound quality. Am I crazy? I know many people who do the same. Are they all crazy?

By the way, are you implying you buy things only because you're scared of the law if you get caught stealing? Or at least you think everyone else thinks that way? If so, what does that say about your own morals?

Here's what I think: buying art is about supporting the creator, not breaking/following laws. It's obvious to everyone "in their right mind" that artists can't continue being artists without other people's financial compensation. If the freeloaders are fine with that, I believe that's their business. They just shouldn't complain when quality and diversity keep declining.
I see it as a process similar to democracy really. If you don't vote or give your votes to idiots, you can't feel entitled to good results, but no one is forcing people to vote.
Does anyone give a crap if an unpopular politician whines about how he "can't support his family with politics" because no one voted for him? I don't think so. If you can't get people's support, you have to get out of politics, no matter how much effort and passion you put into it. It doesn't matter how many law bills you draft, how many veterans' hands you shake or how many speeches you hold. It's that simple. Why is art so different?

vox

07-20-2009, 06:24 PM

By the way, are you implying you buy things only because you're scared of the law if you get caught stealing? Or at least you think everyone else thinks that way? If so, what does that say about your own morals?
---
Here's what I think: buying art is about supporting the creator, not breaking/following laws.
---
I see it as a process similar to democracy really.
---
Why is art so different?

Nice spin to question the personal integrity, there. :) I shouldn't reply to that at all, but I will because I think you're missing my point. I make purchases, not because I'd rather steal but am too afraid, but because that's the business model we have. If you take away the copyright protection, you change the model. You're essentially saying that the work has no value and can be freely shared.

--

It's certainly nice to think that the vast book-buying public makes their purchases to support the arts. If you do, that's great. The reality is the general public are consumers and the authors create that which the public consumes. There's no question that if the general public is told that they can get books for free, they'll do it.
--
I have to disagree with the buying art = Democracy thing. Again, it's a nice thought, but not realistic. The public wants entertainment and are willing to pay for it. If their willingness to pay for it ever changes, for any reason, the authors lose and much of their "art" goes away.

ETA: Please note that I responded in direct opposition to your position without questioning your integrity or your intelligence. :)

10er

07-20-2009, 06:54 PM

Nice spin to question the personal integrity, there. :)

Sorry, I couldn't resist. ;)

But back to the point.
You are wrong about one thing: the law doesn't dictate the business model, the people do. As long as people think a work of art has value, they will acknowledge that value regardless of legal regulations. That much is undeniable, and by saying "no one in their right mind would", I think you wrote something that is factually incorrect. And you're doing it again with "there's no question that". You have stated nothing but your personal conviction to back those claims.
That being said, I'm admittedly not much better: both of our opinions take place mostly in the realm of speculation.
You think people won't pay unless the law forces them to (very cynical imo but also plausible)
I think freeloaders would quickly realize what they're doing and start "supporting the arts" (which you consider unrealistic).
I think my view is supported by the fact that (as I've stated) in spite of piracy going nearly unchecked on the internet, there are still enough people willing to buy movies/music/books, but I can't claim anything beyond that.
In the end, neither can prove the other wrong (yet) so, uh: let's agree to disagree? :)

Edit:
Oh and about your last point: yes, much of their art might go away. But again: why should it be different for artists when politicians suffer the very same fate? It just doesn't matter if the artists are passionate about what they do. No one asked them to write/paint/sing something. They have to place their work out there and hope for support. If they can't get it... well, too bad. Same as politicians.

Richard White

07-20-2009, 07:00 PM

Plus, Cory has chosen to make his work free. It's his right under current copyright laws for him to do so. He thinks it's great advertising. Seems to work for him. While I don't agree with a lot of stuff he says, I'll defend his right to be self-destructive if he chooses to. Why? It's his property.

The pirate on the other hand has chosen, without any input from me, to take my work and offer it to anyone who wants it. There's no chance of recompensation for me. All it means is someone out there is getting a free copy of my work and I get bumpkiss for it.

Does this aggravate me? You're damn right it does. I hate thieves.

This arguement is like talking to the Anime fans who'd rather buy the $5.99 Taiwanese copies of the Anime soundtracks than pay the $24.99 for the real Japanese tracks where the money goes to the artists who perform the songs, the writers who compose the lyrics and the companies who make the movies.

"But, I want it cheaper. Who's it hurting?"

Only the people who actually MAKE the stuff. It's not hurting the thief in Taiwan (EverAnime, Son May, etc.) who's buying one copy and then mass producing it with inferior art and dumping it on the American market.

<-- steps out now before he sets fire to the soapbox

vox

07-20-2009, 07:39 PM

both of our opinions take place mostly in the realm of speculation.

--

Oh and about your last point: yes, much of their art might go away. But again: why should it be different for artists when politicians suffer the very same fate? It just doesn't matter if the artists are passionate about what they do. No one asked them to write/paint/sing something. They have to place their work out there and hope for support. If they can't get it... well, too bad. Same as politicians.

re: specultation. Guilty as charged :) I am certainly just spouting my opinions here. And I realize that making blanket statements like "no one in their right mind" is a sure way to draw out dissent. I should've worded that a bit differently.

re: politicians. I think there's a big difference there. There will always be X number of politicians and each one who succeeds will be paid whatever their particular office pays. Sure they go through a weeding out process, but no one is taking away the compensation of the successful ones. The authors who successfully create works that the public wants, on the other hand, will be penalized if their copyrights are not protected. They are the winners, but their ability to put food on the table is diminished if the public thinks it is entitled to consume their work without compensation.

10er

07-20-2009, 08:02 PM

re: politicians. I think there's a big difference there. There will always be X number of politicians and each one who succeeds will be paid whatever their particular office pays. Sure they go through a weeding out process, but no one is taking away the compensation of the successful ones. The authors who successfully create works that the public wants, on the other hand, will be penalized if their copyrights are not protected. They are the winners, but their ability to put food on the table is diminished if the public thinks it is entitled to consume their work without compensation.

Yes, they get what their particular office pays. Know what happens to the rest? They get nothing, nada, zilch, even if they worked so hard they got burn out syndrome. Even if they get 49% votes: zero profit. All their efforts in vain.
And while much-pirated authors can still get some income, that isn't even relevant to my comparison: if they can't support their lifestyle, I maintain that they simply weren't popular enough. People didn't care enough. Like the 49% who voted for the failed politician, the ones who did care don't matter in the end. In my comparison, you could say pirates are non-voters. They are the ones benefiting from the winning politician's sound plans (in the best case) despite not having voted. The result remains the same: both politician and artist cannot support themselves with what they love doing, because not enough people cared about them enough to give their support.
Of course it's not a 1:1 equation. But I think the similarities are there.