voter ID's

[whistlelock]

Here in Texas the Senate has just finished debating requiring voter ID's at the polling station.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/politics/state/stories/031109dntexvoterid.3e8237e.html

is a good break down of the proceedings.

Personally, I'm against them. While certainly there has been voter fraud and will continue to be voter fraud I have to question its impact in todays elections. Also, it is too much like other efforts in the past to suppress voter turnout such as poll taxes and all the other fun stuff from the bad old days.

One interesting line from the article
Senate Democrats sought to question Attorney General Greg Abbott on the $1.4 million his office spent investigating voter fraud – without finding a single case where someone tried to impersonate an eligible voter at a polling place.

[Joe270]

I don't understand why people think they shouldn't show ID to vote.

You have to show an ID to drink in a bar. You have to show ID when you fly. Isn't it much more important to ensure people are who they say they are when electing our leaders?

I don't understand arguments against requiring ID. The only reason they could have for not wanting ID checks is to allow fraud. Pretty simple.

[Susan Gable]

You have to show an ID to drink in a bar. You have to show ID when you fly. Isn't it much more important to ensure people are who they say they are when electing our leaders?

.

You have to show ID to buy cigerettes. (In theory, anyway. If you look under 30.) You have to show ID when you check into a hospital. (Also to prevent fraud) Sometimes you even have to show ID when you try to use a credit card. (A practice I'm also in favor of.)

I had to show my license here in PA this year when I voted. And I agree... there is nothing wrong with requiring ID for someone to vote.

Prove you're who you say you are, and then vote. Prove you're actually ALIVE <G> and then vote.

Susan G.

[Unique]

(I couldn't get the page to load {security controls or dial-up} so sorry if the article stated...)

Is this a special form of ID or just showing ID that you already have?

If it's the former - I think it's wrong. If it's the latter, isn't that what happens anyway? It is here.
'What's your name?'
"XYZ"
'Address?'
"PDQ"
'There you are; here's your ballot.'
Sometimes they ask to see my license sometimes they don't but once that name, 'XYZ' is checked off - it can't be used again.

And I'm on my way. How's it work in TX now?
It's been so long since I've voted there that all I remember is a huge, long line for the '84 elections. I can't remember what happened when I actually got to the front of the line. :(

[Don]

I think you should have to show your birth certificate and proof you paid taxes in the last year to vote.

[Nakhlasmoke]

What's wrong with it? i don't get it.

Here in South Africa when you vote you show your ID to be scanned so they can check you're registered to vote, mark your thumb to show that you've voted AND stamp your ID.

It's not like that's a massively big deal - what are you so afraid of?

[MoonWriter]

I think you should have to show your birth certificate and proof you paid taxes in the last year to vote.

Don't know if you're being funny, but I agree. That would eliminate the increasing number of votes that are bought with promises of increased and expanded social services.

I have no problem showing an ID to vote. For as long as I can remember, we've had to do it in Louisiana. Seems to prevent money wasted in contesting fraudulent votes.

[whistlelock]

You have to show an ID to drink in a bar. You have to show ID when you fly. Isn't it much more important to ensure people are who they say they are when electing our leaders?

I don't understand arguments against requiring ID. The only reason they could have for not wanting ID checks is to allow fraud. Pretty simple.
Those are all private enterprises- not a state/local/national election.

The types of ID's required in the bill are listed in the link.

However, no state requires that you have a id to merely live there why should there be one for participating in an election?

What if I take the bus and don't own a car? What's the point of having a drivers license?

Consider large cities like New York- I have known several people from there who have never driven a car and do not have drivers licenses.

And, I don't buy the prevent fraud business. If you are determined enough to sway an election by voting several times under different names, coming up with fake id's beyond a license will likely not be a problem.

Now, I don't have a link so take it with a grain of salt but the local news reported last night in their investigation in the past 30 years of voting in Texas there have been 10 cases of voter fraud.

[cethklein]

You have to show ID to buy cigerettes. (In theory, anyway. If you look under 30.) You have to show ID when you check into a hospital. (Also to prevent fraud) Sometimes you even have to show ID when you try to use a credit card. (A practice I'm also in favor of.)

I had to show my license here in PA this year when I voted. And I agree... there is nothing wrong with requiring ID for someone to vote.

Prove you're who you say you are, and then vote. Prove you're actually ALIVE <G> and then vote.

Susan G.

Exactly. I've never understood why they WOULDN'T expect to see ID when one votes. What reason would a person have to oppose this idea?

[Gravity]

Agreed. Voting is a citizen's right. Valid ID shows proof of that citizenship. What's the problem?

[Susan Gable]

Those are all private enterprises- not a state/local/national election.

.

The most important thing we do, elect officials to represent us, and you don't think there should be ID required?

My son had to show several forms of ID to GET his driver's license. That's a government thing.

If you want to rent a PO box these days, you have to show ID. That's a government "thing."

Try to get a replacement SS card because you lost yours or it got eaten by the dog. You'll need numerous forms of ID. That's a government "thing."

Yeah, if you want to vote, you should have to show ID.

Susan G.

[tiny]

I think you should have to show your birth certificate and proof you paid taxes in the last year to vote.


Would this include 100% disabled veterans who do not have to pay taxes on their disability payment from the VA? My SO didn't pay any income taxes last year, shall we take away his right to vote because he served this country to his absolute breaking point? Just a thought that maybe there are other reasons for not paying income tax other than being a drain on society.


I don't have a problem with a voter ID, but I've never voted at a polling station and not shown ID so it seems redundant to me.

[astonwest]

I agree with showing ID in order to vote.

Not so much with paying taxes...if only people who pay taxes get to vote, how about people without kids in school not having to pay taxes that go to the schools?
:)

[Don]

Would this include 100% disabled veterans who do not have to pay taxes on their disability payment from the VA? My SO didn't pay any income taxes last year, shall we take away his right to vote because he served this country to his absolute breaking point? Just a thought that maybe there are other reasons for not paying income tax other than being a drain on society.
Nope, that was just an oversight. If you haven't read Starship Troopers (Heinlein), let me recommend it, it's nothing like the movie. It postulates a society where ONLY veterans have the vote, and he makes a pretty good case for the arrangement.
I agree with showing ID in order to vote.

Not so much with paying taxes...if only people who pay taxes get to vote, how about people without kids in school not having to pay taxes that go to the schools?
:)
I personally think all taxes should be user-based, so you won't get any argument from me.

[Bartholomew]

I don't see the issue; I had to show my DL when I voted in 2008. O.o

[Bartholomew]

Nope, that was just an oversight. If you haven't read Starship Troopers (Heinlein), let me recommend it, it's nothing like the movie. It postulates a society where ONLY veterans have the vote, and he makes a pretty good case for the arrangement.


It would certainly be a tempting solution to the antipathy that has pervaded society, RE suffrage. So many people fought and died for the right to vote -- the revolutionaries that founded the country; the people who refused to go to the back of the bus; the suffragettes-- I find it astounding that anyone would let such a remarkable gift rot.

I've said otherwise, previously, but I've started to think that a draft would be a good thing for this country. (I'd serve in a heartbeat, if called - so don't start that crap with me) It would make people VERY aware of our foreign policies. More people would pick up newspapers, hoping to find out if political tensions with N. Korea had erupted into hostilities, yet. And maybe they'd read about other issues, too. And then, maybe, there'd be a bigger incentive for larger hunks of the population to get involved with electing congressmen and local officials.

I'd never restrict suffrage to veterans, though. Not after all this country has gone through to give everyone a vote.

[Don]

Keep thinking, Bart, until you think your way out of that draft. Been there, done that in the '60's, and you don't know hatred for your government unless your friends have lost a drawing and had to go die for old men's arguments in foreign lands.

One of the few things that will take me back to the streets or out to the woods is slavery, whether private or government-approved. Hackles on the back of my neck pop up at the very thought.

[Bartholomew]

Keep thinking, Bart, until you think your way out of that draft. Been there, done that in the '60's, and you don't know hatred for your government unless your friends have lost a drawing and had to go die for old men's arguments in foreign lands.

One of the few things that will take me back to the streets or out to the woods is slavery, whether private or government-approved. Hackles on the back of my neck pop up at the very thought.

I'm torn. I really am. Would the draft be so unpopular if we hadn't been in 'nam? Mandatory military service has been a part of Swiss culture for years, and when was the last time THEY went to war? In peace time, Military Training is akin to free college, coupled with a rigorous PE regime, modest paycheques, and self defense training.

If everyone had to learn how to shoot a gun - if everyone had the threat of dying in a foreign land hovering over their shoulders - we'd already be out of Iraq, and we likely would never have gone in the first place.

But as you have pointed out, drafts are fucking unpopular, and with good reasons. I lost a friend in Afganistan. We all probably know, or know OF, somebody who got killed or maimed in the middle east. It sucks.

But it isn't a black and white issue.

[robeiae]

Nope, that was just an oversight. If you haven't read Starship Troopers (Heinlein), let me recommend it, it's nothing like the movie. It postulates a society where ONLY veterans have the vote, and he makes a pretty good case for the arrangement.
It's, you know, fiction. I've read it and I find it interesting. The "case" is not all that good, imo.

[Don]

Okay, Bart, I haven't quoted Heinlein lately, but it's definately germane here, and I think he nailed it, as far as I'm concerned.

I also think there are prices too high to pay to save the United States. Conscription is one of them. Conscription is slavery, and I don't think that any people or nation has a right to save itself at the price of slavery for anyone, no matter what name it is called. We have had the draft for twenty years now; I think this is shameful. If a country can't save itself through the volunteer service of its own free people, then I say: Let the damned thing go down the drain!

[tiny]

Nope, that was just an oversight. If you haven't read Starship Troopers (Heinlein), let me recommend it, it's nothing like the movie. It postulates a society where ONLY veterans have the vote, and he makes a pretty good case for the arrangement.


I figured you weren't including them. We forget there are people out there who get aid because they've given their share and more. Sorry for totally hijacking the thread, it wasn't my intention. I'm just frustrated sometimes, especially since he hates getting disability.

[Joe270]

What if I take the bus and don't own a car? What's the point of having a drivers license?

It doesn't have to be a 'driver's license'. I know that in Texas, one can go get a 'license' which is only used as a form of ID. People use them who don't drive because businesses want to see a 'drivers license' when customers use credit cards. . .oh, and to vote, too.

[Duncan J Macdonald]

I agree with showing ID in order to vote.

Not so much with paying taxes...if only people who pay taxes get to vote, how about people without kids in school not having to pay taxes that go to the schools?
:)
My mother did this. She went to the appropriate county offices, swore out an affidavit that she had no school age children residing in her household, and, since she was a retiree on a fixed income, requested that her property taxes be reduced by the percentage that went to the school disctrict.

[My-Immortal]

My mother did this. She went to the appropriate county offices, swore out an affidavit that she had no school age children residing in her household, and, since she was a retiree on a fixed income, requested that her property taxes be reduced by the percentage that went to the school disctrict.

In a way, this makes sense. Why have to pay for a school when you don't have any kids using the school...?

But then, don't we all benefit from an educated society? Who knows...perhaps her property taxes will go toward the betterment of a student who will one day grow up and save her life...

<shrugs>

I mean, if you want to cherry pick which taxes you do or don't pay, can I get a refund for the taxes I paid last year for the local fire department? I didn't use them last year...or the year before that....or the year before that....

And I only called the police once....do I still have to pay those hundreds of dollars for just that one call? It's not like they saved my life or anything really all that important.

ETA: As for an ID and voting...why not require a state ID? What is the argument against showing an ID? If it is required of EVERYONE, how is it unfair to anyone?

[Joe270]

In a way, this makes sense. Why have to pay for a school when you don't have any kids using the school...?

But then, don't we all benefit from an educated society? Who knows...perhaps her property taxes will go toward the betterment of a student who will one day grow up and save her life...

There's an ad running here in Vegas about that. It shows two elderly people in a hospital room saying 'Why should we pay taxes for school when we have no kids in school?', and then the nurses and doctors vanish, leaving them alone on their monitors.

[My-Immortal]

There's an ad running here in Vegas about that. It shows two elderly people in a hospital room saying 'Why should we pay taxes for school when we have no kids in school?', and then the nurses and doctors vanish, leaving them alone on their monitors.

Should change that ad to the old people suddenly sitting out in the middle of nowhere....and then add a couple of teens then wondering...why should we have to pay into social security--it's not like we (those teens) are likely going to see any of it....

Tax argument could go both ways.

Take care -

[Joe270]

Yeah, they won't see any of it, and neither will I.

I almost opted out of it back in the mid-80s. I sure wish I'd gone through with it.