Flashbacks and dreams

[n-v-b]

Hi Im new here, Im currently working on my first novel (first draft at the moment) and have a quick question regarding flashbacks and dreams. The novel is based around a group of linked characters whose lives have been drastically changed by an event that happened 11 years previously. This requires me to have some flashbacks, which seem to be working well and I have put these in Itallics as they often appear within a chapter so I needed to make sure the reader differentiated these paragraphs from others in the same chapter.

My MC is quite a troubled individual and there are a few key 'dream' scenes that I need to include in order to move the story along. The one I have done so far I have put in Itallics to once again show that this is a slightly different form the rest of the chapter, but I am worried that the use of itallics will confuse the reader and make them think they are reading another flashback sequence (could be an easy mistake as at least one of the dreams is centered around an incident from the characters past- like they are re-living it).

How have other people dealt with this problem?

Thanks in advance

[alyssalynne]

That is a tough one. I try to avoid dreams or flashbacks if possible. Do you need to show what took place as flashbacks or can you mention it, but instead of going into detail of the past events, show how the characters have changed or reacted because of it. (A random example... a character was attacked and mugged in a dark alley five years ago. Now, she never goes out alone at night, avoids alleys like the plague, carries mace with her all the time, etc.) I'm not sure about the formatting. I've never heard of putting dreams in italics, but maybe someone else knows.

[CheshireCat]

I'd save the italics for dreams if you have to have them.

For the flashbacks, I'd set the sections apart with spacebreaks and then clearly specify a time. For instance:


* * *

December 12, 1997
(or: Fifteen years previously)

Joe said bla bla bla as he bla bla -- and so on.

* * *

And maybe handle the return to present day by noting, in the righthand margin: Present Day

Something like that. IMO, flashbacks have to be rare and handled very carefully, because every time you flash back in the story you literally halt the forward momentum. So those flashbacks had better be not only fascinating to the reader, but also contribute to the present-day story.

It's not a device to insert backstory just for the sake of backstory.

And just FYI, relating past incidences or information through dialogue or a character's (brief) introspection is another way to put necessary details before the reader.

[timewaster]

[quote=CheshireCat;3344941]I'd save the italics for dreams if you Something like that. IMO, flashbacks have to be rare and handled very carefully, because every time you flash back in the story you literally halt the forward momentum. So those flashbacks had better be not only fascinating to the reader, but also contribute to the present-day story.

It's not a device to insert backstory just for the sake of backstory.


I agree completely. Often the information required by the reader is limited and alluding to past events is sufficient to give the reader what they need to know.
Dreams. Well, I'd avoid dreams - they slow things down and are often an excuse for the writer to indicate that they can write stuff that doesn't make sense. Very few books actually need a dream sequence. Other people's dreams tend to bore people rigid. YMMV

[maestrowork]

There's no need to use italics. It's all in the context and if you write it well, the readers will understand. You may separate the scenes so they're not mixed together. Flashbacks has to be important and also relevant, and you also have to choose a good moment to reveal flashbacks -- say, there's a null in the current time: a cliffhanger, a pause in the action, a transition, etc. Don't flashback in the middle of a scene because, like someone else said, that's a literal "pause and rewind" button.

As for dreams, use them VERY judicially. I wouldn't say never write dreams, and I wouldn't say they will turn your readers off, but dreams often are forced devices. Why? What is so riveting and relevant about dreams? They are not real. Are we supposed to believe that these dreams reveal something, contain some kind of information? How are they relevant to the plot or the character? Seldom, in real life, do dreams actually mean anything. The writer's trap is to write a dream that reveal information, tell us something about the character, foreshadow something, etc. etc. -- and that's just a poor use of dreams.

To me, dreams should be irrelevant and bizarre and subtle. If they do reveal something, you can't hit the readers with it like a 2x4: oooh, he was abused by his father! Such dreams run the risk of alienating your readers and make them feel cheated and manipulated.

Now, there are dreams that may make sense. Say, the character actually is a psychic and can travel in time with his brain. Or angels actually deliver a message to the girl in her dreams about the baby she's going to carry. In such fantastical instances, dreams can be an effective device, not as a means to an end, but as part of the plot: angels can talk to people in dreams; the character has psychic power.

[Alan Yee]

The only real dream scene I have in my book is with a witch who happens to be psychic and talks with a recently-deceased character's ghost in her dream. Unless the dream is relevant to the plot, I wouldn't use dreams if you can avoid them.

[blacbird]

As a reader, I have a lot more trouble with dreams than with flashbacks. A dream sequence used to "move the story along" nearly always comes across as blatantly contrived.

caw

[Barpaio]

I would stick with the idea of italics for dreams and breaks for flashbacks. It's best not to describe events after the fact, or descriptions of anything off-stage. With the breaks you can describe the events as they happen, keeping the writting more entertaining and engrossing.

[Feathers]

I like what Chesire said. Normally, I would add that flashbacks and dream sequences are big no no's and you should avoid them at all costs yadda yadda, but it almost sounds like this is necessary and will work in your story, so I'm going to say keep them, but tentatively. Make sure each one is necessary and interesting and avoids the classic flashback/dream foibles. Plus, expect to challenge your need for them when you get to the editing stage.

Best luck.

-Feathers

[n-v-b]

Thank you all for your replies- I have thought long and hard about the flashbacks and dreams for a number of years (the novel has been bouncing around in my head since 2006 but due to life commitments its only just starting to take a form of a story now). I have kept them to a minimum but they really are key to the story as the explanations for each characters behaviour slowly unravels over the course of the book. There are basically about 4 key flashback scenes, not particularly long but very relevant, I have decided now to put them at the start of chapters rather than in the middle as (as a few people have pointed out) it might break the flow of the narrative too much.

As for the dream sequences there is one I might eventually cut, depending on how I feel it fits in once I have done the revision, but there is at least one very vital key dream that I feel needsto be included in order to move the MC along. It isn't long, but it relates to the very opening paragraph of the story so I feel it is relevant to include it.

I will take all your ideas on board, its great to have some feedback from people on things like this as I dont know anybody else who writes so I have no-one else to discuss this type of thing with.

[Charlie Horse]

Yeah, the whole thing with dreams and flashbacks are that they really take the reader out of the story. I've tried it, unsuccessfully, and while the people who read my first, now trunked, novel didn't have a problem with them, I think they doomed the book just because from a reader's standpoint they totally took you out of the action. And this was a book where the dreams were integral to the story, the main theme being that dreams are their own separate reality.

I did, however, start off setting the dreams all in italics. I ended up changing that because I discovered reading long sections in italics is just difficult on the eyes.

(I'm still convinced dreams are another reality and just as relevant as sitting at my desk in front of a computer all day.)

[RedScylla]

I would never write a dream sequence in a real-world story, because of how random and meaningless dreams are. That said, I have five separate dream sequences in my current fantasy project. It's a weird book, though, with talking dogs and magic portals and time travel. The point behind the dreams is that the main character thinks he's dreaming, but the other character who shows up in these dreams is actually there, purposefully, to witness and affect what happens in the dreams. So they become actual scenes that move the story, except one character is asleep for them and the other isn't.

[tehuti88]

Without reading all the other replies--I have nothing against the use of flashbacks, dreams, or italics as long as they belong in the story. (And I realize that many others here disagree strongly on this issue, and will advise against using them whatsoever, which is why I'm not reading the replies.)

That being said, is there any way you can make it clear, through the way you describe the flashbacks and dreams, that one is a flashback and one is a dream? Flashbacks and dreams play out very differently. Yes, both seem real when you're experiencing them. But dreams often have a...well, dreamlike quality that flashbacks don't. Flashbacks, from what I've read, tend to be quite realistic, whereas dreams are...well, dreamy. They aren't always coherent, and they often derail and wander off in other directions. They also make heavy use of symbolism, and they aren't always consistent either. I don't recommend doing that (making dreams all wandery) much in a story since the dream should contribute to the plot, but there should be a way to make it obvious which is which. The two are very different creatures. Even a dream based on events that really happened will display some obvious dreamlike qualities that a flashback won't.

I had a dream just last night which involved me wandering a building and describing, in detail, what I was seeing. Even without going lucid, I was stunned that so many things remained consistent in the dream (rooms and features remained the same--at least, they seemed to). That's kind of what I'm talking about. It's quite common for something to be a certain way in a dream one moment, then to change the next. Even recurring dreams never seem to be exactly the same each time. Flashbacks, on the other hand, are very consistent in their repetitiveness.

[LaurieD]

Haven't dealt with it in my own writing yet.

If you'd like to see something along the lines you're talking about, Dean Koontz's "Strangers" deals with multiple flashbacks and works dreams in there too, to give you a published version of your situation.

[C.M.C.]

I like flashbacks. If we are supposed to be mindful of showing instead of telling, the flashback is an integral tool to help us do just that. If I want a reader to know something that happened in the past to my character, dumping the bit of information into the description is bland, and borders on a very boring form of telling. If I use a flashback, however, I can show the reader more vividly what happened so that whatever I'm trying to convey about the past becomes more clearly defined, and is imparted in a more entertaining and engaging way.

For example; I could write a flashback where my character is engaged in the action and growing as the narrative moves along, thereby showing to the reader where the character gets the information/knowledge/skill that will be used in the present time. Or, I could write a simple sentence saying "Character X learned this when he was attacked by a starving squirrel." I know which one I would rather read.

[backslashbaby]

I am also wondering about this. I think of The Fisher King, for instance, and try to imagine the flashbacks of the tragedy with his wife given through dialogue. Not nearly as satisfying, imho.

I won't say flashbacks are always a good idea, but I appreciate stories like The Fisher King very much. Is it another thing no longer desired by modern readers, or is it just easy to screw up as a writer?

[Feathers]

Oh, I just had a thought. You might want to read Wake for a reference. At least half the novel is based on dreams and dream sequences, because the MC is dragged into the dreams of anyone around her. Some of these are important and have real-time affect, moving the plot and such; others are just random dreams. Reading this may help you figure out what you do and don't like, which can help you choose how to write such dreams in your novel.

-Feathers

[Puck38]

As for flashbacks, most of the story I'm writing now is a flashback, so when it's a flashback, it's in past-tense, and when it's not, it's present-tense. As a reader, I tend to get confused when there's too many line-breaks and italics and insets and all that crap. So when I write a dream, it usually goes something like, "In the dream, I'm being chased by a twelve-foot squirrel with crazy eyes, and he's hungry, oh so hungry." No need to confuse the reader with over-use of itallics. Just tell them it's a dream.

But what the hell do I know anyway. I'm just another lazy, unpublished douchemonkey. Take my advice with a grain of salt, dear friend.

[dreamsofnever]

Welcome to AW, N-v-b!

So, I actually like flashbacks, when they're done well.

How do you define a flashback that's done well? Well, as stated above, a flashback halts the forward momentum of the story. The best way to use it to advance the forward momentum is to think of each flashback as a reveal. Little by little, you reveal bits and pieces of the event and how it affects each character. The trick is to tie the flashbacks into the present day.

I would say don't use italics for the flashbacks or the dreams. Do use the narrative to alert the reader that you're traveling backwards in time or bringing it back to the present.

Something along the lines of, "He would never forget that day..." and then go into detail about that day.

Now, I'm sure you can find something a little less clunky but you get the idea.

I would say both dreams and flashbacks should only be used as necessary. But that's true with every scene in your book really. It should be there to serve a purpose, and because it's the best way to get the story across to the reader.

I would also recommend that you get someone to read your book when you're done. For me, I find that I sometimes have trouble with my segueways. I.e. it's not always clear when I'm returning to the present after a flashback.

I can't come up with any stories off the top of my head that use flashbacks particularly well, but I would suggest you check out the above mentioned suggestions to get a feel for how each author handles the scenes.

If I think of any recommendations, I will let you know.

[timewaster]

I am also wondering about this. I think of The Fisher King, for instance, and try to imagine the flashbacks of the tragedy with his wife given through dialogue. Not nearly as satisfying, imho.

I won't say flashbacks are always a good idea, but I appreciate stories like The Fisher King very much. Is it another thing no longer desired by modern readers, or is it just easy to screw up as a writer?

Like everything else it depends how well you do it. They are used so much in films that I think there is a temptation to attempt the same kind of thing in prose and the two don't really equate.

I get the feeling that they are used often and badly by beginner writers ( as are dream sequences). They intoduce tone and pace changes which can distract from the forward impetus of the narrative. They are common enough in published fiction, but I suspect that they are commoner still in unpublishable fiction.YMMV

[tehuti88]

I won't say flashbacks are always a good idea, but I appreciate stories like The Fisher King very much. Is it another thing no longer desired by modern readers, or is it just easy to screw up as a writer?

Along the lines of what timewaster said, I think flashbacks/dream sequences are no longer desired by many modern readers for the very reason that so many writers screw them up. Unfortunately. For this reason it's important to write them the best that one can, so they can be redeemed as beneficial plot/writing devices.

[Arkie]

I like what Elmore Leonard had to say on the subject. He said leave out what the reader skips, and that for me is dreams, flashbacks and prologues.

[Horseshoes]

There is some very, very good advice here.
What a cool forum.

[Perle_Rare]

I like what Elmore Leonard had to say on the subject. He said leave out what the reader skips, and that for me is dreams, flashbacks and prologues.

For me, I skip long unbroken blocks of sheer scenic description. For anyone familiar with Jean M. Auel's Earth's Children series, I must have skipped about 75% of each book. I always do read prologues, dreams and flashbacks, though.

Should every writer avoid writing what every potential reader might skip?

[Fictionalizer]

I'm editing a rewrite of my novel (I changed my novel from steamy sex and horrific violence to no sex scenes with horrific violence), so officially it's the third edit.

A huge portion of my novel uses flashbacks and nightmares which advance both the plot and MC's life. Will this work? The novel is a fictionalization of actual events.

[tehuti88]

For me, I skip long unbroken blocks of sheer scenic description. For anyone familiar with Jean M. Auel's Earth's Children series, I must have skipped about 75% of each book. I always do read prologues, dreams and flashbacks, though.

Should every writer avoid writing what every potential reader might skip?

Agreed. If I followed Leonard's advice, I wouldn't write anything at all because a lot of people really aren't interested in reading the type of stuff I write!

Every reader's going to be different, as this post proves. Rather than avoiding what somebody MIGHT skip reading, one should focus on making the entire story the best they can...then maybe fewer people will skip things.

I avoided mushroom soup for years because I once tasted a cooked mushroom and it was slimy and disgusting. I skipped it based on a bad experience. Then I ate some mushroom soup once that was fabulous and now I love it. It took a can of well-made soup to change my mind and make me stop skipping it.

I'm editing a rewrite of my novel (I changed my novel from steamy sex and horrific violence to no sex scenes with horrific violence), so officially it's the third edit.

A huge portion of my novel uses flashbacks and nightmares which advance both the plot and MC's life. Will this work? The novel is a fictionalization of actual events.

If the flashbacks and dreams actually serve a purpose, as you say they do, IMO they could work. But one really can't tell without reading the story. And even then, as this thread has shown, some people might like it and some people might not.

[Arkie]

I'll give you a practical reason why some readers may avoid books with dreams and flashbacks: vision. I'll use myself as an example. I wear tri-focals and I read a lot and have little problem with most type; however, I have a problem with italics and it seems most dreams, thoughts, and some flashbacks are printed in italics; therefore, I skip them. I may be missing some good writing, but that's my problem.

[job]

Talking about font technique for putting in dream sequences and so on ...

All you have to do, right now, is make clear to the editor or agent which segments break from the on-going narrative. You can do this with Italics, with a new font, with hatchmarks that show a scene break, with bold, with indents ...
you could probably even handwrite on the margin of the manuscript and draw an arrow and some brackets.

Because all you have to do is tell the editor what's happening. You don't have to decide how this will be done in the final book. That is the book designer's problem.


Looking at whether you should use extensive flashback and dream sequence ...

My knee-jerk reaction is to discourage wandering away from the narrative.
Discursions look easy and useful.
In fact, they are hard to do well.

That said, the best way to find out if this is the right form for your story is to write the manuscript and lay it before some trusted beta readers.
Nobody can tell if your plot structure is a good idea or a bad idea while it's just an idea.

[ellisnation]

I started off putting all flashbacks in italics in my novel. However, I ended up seperating them into their own chapters. I also used what was happening in present day to introduce the upcoming flashback.

For example: Present scene the MC notices how confident his ex-wife has become and wonders where this strength came from. Next chapter is a flashback to times that her strength was tested and showed her growing as a person.

When it was all said and done, I only had two very brief sections in italics.

[Fictionalizer]

Originally Posted by Fictionalizer
I'm editing a rewrite of my novel (I changed my novel from steamy sex and horrific violence to no sex scenes with horrific violence), so officially it's the third edit.

A huge portion of my novel uses flashbacks and nightmares which advance both the plot and MC's life. Will this work? The novel is a fictionalization of actual events.

If the flashbacks and dreams actually serve a purpose, as you say they do, IMO they could work. But one really can't tell without reading the story. And even then, as this thread has shown, some people might like it and some people might not.

All my flashbacks and nightmares are not in italics. By reading the comments here, I can see I need to make each one separated out from the scene. If possible I need to make each nightmare or flashback into scene.

[Matera the Mad]

I would save the italics for the Italians -- well, seriously, italics make for hard reading. Better to use a normal scene-break if you have to have a sizable dream or flashback. Italics are for emphasis, not for large blocks of text.

As one who dreams many utterly fantastic and highly varied things, I don't put down using dreams in stories. Besides, my characters are shamans, and they wouldn't like it if I didn't let them dream ;)

[sindy9001]

You can try and see how it go.Good luck.http://photo-collection.co.cc/img/3177/a08b1010ygij/grin.gif