Truman's Entry [Archive] - Absolute Write Water Cooler

trumancoyote

05-30-2005, 09:44 AM

Thanks, William -- you're a prince.

But to be completely honest, the thing's too long and I just didn't have the time to cut it.

I really appreciate how much you've been rootin' for me, man --everyone who has been-- but the rules can only be bent so far.

If by some miracle it's deemed ok, great; but if not, I understand. It's me own fault.

In any case, whenever I get the chance I'll be watching this board like a hungry fat man -- don't want to miss out on anything sweet.

MacAllister

05-30-2005, 09:46 AM

reph

05-30-2005, 10:22 AM

Good idea, Mac, but then we'd have to pay them.

firehorse

05-30-2005, 10:37 AM

Works for me http://www.coolsmilies.net/wink/wink4.gif

Lilybiz

05-30-2005, 11:42 AM

In fact, maybe we should just stop eliminating contestants, now. We can hold them captive and make them churn out 1000 words or so a week, for our entertainment.

Indefinitely.

It's starting to hurt too much to lose them.

Here here, Mac. I've been reading (lurking) and voting, and it's getting harder each week to lose someone.

I'd hate to take trumancoyote out of the running because of a technicality. Hell, it's barely midnight on the west coast.

MacAllister

05-30-2005, 11:56 AM

*sigh* I do understand that part of Jenna's original vision for the contest had to do with deadlines and wordcounts and so on, too, though.

If we lose Zach, we don't have to lose ANOTHER one, too, do we?

BlueTexas

05-30-2005, 12:06 PM

I bet we do lose another. We did the first time when Bass dropped out. If not, why'd we write our entries?

It sucks that Truman didn't have the time to cut the word count, or the time zone right. If I were in China, I'd screw the time zone up, too, no doubt about it.

It just plain sucks :(

astonwest

05-30-2005, 03:50 PM

Good idea, Mac, but then we'd have to pay them.

Would we? bwaaaahahahaha...

maestrowork

05-30-2005, 04:02 PM

I vote to keep Zach for this round... he's trying, 10,000 miles, in a non-English-speaking country where finding an Internet connection would be a problem... not to mention incredible jag lag. It think this is a rare exception. And trust me, the time difference between US and China is very confusing. He was off by 1 hour, and it could have been a time zone miscalculation...

The fact is, he tried. He didn't just blow it off. I think there's merit in that, and in the spirit of the game, I vote to allow it.

Then again, of course, it's up to Jenna. And if the contestants think it's only fair...

brinkett

05-30-2005, 04:24 PM

Hard call - on the one hand, it's great that Zach made the effort given his circumstances. On the other hand, rules are rules, especially in a competition. Tough decision - glad I don't have to make it. :cool:

(if Jenna does decide to disqualify his entry, I think we should still vote this week...)

firehorse

05-30-2005, 04:29 PM

I don't want Zach to leave, because he's phenomenally talented and I love his writing; he should rightfully be one of the final three. However, it sounds to me like the contest has taught him just how well he writes, and now he wants to enjoy his time in China without the pressures of the contest. Much as I think he deserves to *win* (not just continue), there's a lot of pressure here and not a whole lot of support for what is ultimately his decision.

Of course we all want to keep reading his work; I've no doubt he'll be winning major awards in a very short time. I just don't think it's fair to put pressure on him to stay if he doesn't feel he can.

I'm not saying this as a competitor - I'd be honoured to lose to Zach. I just think we should support whatever decision he makes.

KTC

05-30-2005, 05:12 PM

I agree with what the Maestro Man said.

Truman! How could you. You probably slept didn't you. Couldn't you just go without sleep and whittle down your entry!?

Just kidding.

Thanks for posting...I sure hope your extenuating circumstances are taken into account.

mommie4a

05-30-2005, 05:26 PM

Aw, Zachie - you gave it your all and that's all anyone can expect from themselves (so says the maven of imperfection).

I'd vote to allow his entry but of course understand the vailidity in the other alternative.

astonwest

05-30-2005, 06:06 PM

brinkett

05-30-2005, 06:11 PM

Much as I think he deserves to *win* (not just continue), there's a lot of pressure here and not a whole lot of support for what is ultimately his decision.

I didn't see the post a few days ago when he said he might want to drop out. It was gone by the time I signed on the next morning so I have no idea of how strongly worded it was. I got the sense from his most recent post that he's sorta, kinda hoping that Jenna will disqualify him because he'd rather be focusing on other things right now (however, I could be wrong). But he did post an entry, when he could have just let it go, and so people are discussing what should be done with a late entry that's too long. I think you're being unfair to everyone here. If Zach flat out says he wants to quit and sticks to his guns, I have no doubt that we'd all understand and wish him well.

ShadowGuide

05-30-2005, 06:33 PM

Zach, do you really want to bow out? If so, that might end all debate here and now.

Otherwise, I say give 'im a break and let us get to voting! :)

maestrowork

05-30-2005, 06:58 PM

Ah, but to play devil's advocate for a moment...

There was nothing stopping Zach from posting a story well before the deadline (since I presumed he knew ahead of time that he was going to be leaving)...I know that there's something mysterious about waiting until the last minute, but problems are bound to arise from doing so......

(Haskins...) ;)

Zach left for China on Thursday. It took over 24 hours just to get there, then he had to take the train to his final destination. And before that, do you really think you won't be running in circles trying to get everything ready before your 10,000-mile journey and a 2-month exile in a foreign country? Not to mention getting his life here settled and dealt with...

Given the circumstances, I really think it's commendable that he's staying in the game. We should be encouraging our contestants, and not punishing them.

Of course, if he really, truly wants to bow out, that's his decision. As a friend and a fellow AW'er, however, I encourage him to stay. Quitting is seldom a good alternative... don't we all preach about "perseverance"?

William Haskins

05-30-2005, 07:32 PM

morning, all.

anybody heard from jenna on when voting's gonna start?

brinkett

05-30-2005, 08:01 PM

Given the circumstances, I really think it's commendable that he's staying in the game. We should be encouraging our contestants, and not punishing them.

My turn to play devil's advocate: rules are rules. If we allow Zach to break them based on circumstances in his life, then we'll have to do it for everybody. Next week, a competitor might say s/he couldn't post in time because of a family emergency. Another might post an entry that's 50 words too long. If we've already allowed one competitor to "get away with it", how could we deny another. Where do you draw the line?

Of course, if he really, truly wants to bow out, that's his decision. As a friend and a fellow AW'er, however, I encourage him to stay. Quitting is seldom a good alternative... don't we all preach about "perseverance"?
Perseverance is good. So is knowing when to quit.

William Haskins

05-30-2005, 08:07 PM

just for the record, when i started this thread, it was because of the being an hour late thing. i didn't know about the word count issue at that time.

i will completely understand that being a disqualifying factor, as zach apparently does as well.

now, where the hell is jenna?

astonwest

05-30-2005, 08:08 PM

First, I have to agree with brinkett...

anybody heard from jenna on when voting's gonna start?

I imagine there's probably a big pow-wow going on discussing the fate of Zach's entry, and we won't hear about the vote until that decision is made...

...but what do I know?

William Haskins

05-30-2005, 08:25 PM

well, yeah i agree with brinkett too, in principle.

we had a monster storm roll through austin last night around 9PM. the electricity kept going out, and i was still in the midst of editing.

i knew i was losing time and might not have a chance to post on time, and i had pretty much resigned to posting my story in 'just for fun' to at least do something with it.

so, i don't think zach's asking for any special treatment. i started this thread from my heart, because he's a good kid and one hell of a talent.

at this point, i just want to get the vote going.

brinkett

05-30-2005, 08:34 PM

For the record, if it was just the honest mistake over time zones, I'd have no problem with the story staying in the competition, though aston west's point about waiting for the last minute to post is well taken. But the word count thing is a different animal--if the story isn't disqualified over word count, then word count can't be a requirement in the coming weeks because it won't be possible to disqualify stories that are too long or too short.

I don't think Zach's looking for special treatment, either. He made it clear in his post that he thinks he bent the rules too far.

Lilybiz

05-30-2005, 08:50 PM

I see the point that brinkett's making, and also that MacAllister made earlier. One of the things Jenna said in the beginning was that deadlines and word counts were part of the contest.

It doesn't take away from Zach's talent. We all know it's great stuff. They're all great, that's why they're the finalists.

William Haskins

05-30-2005, 08:51 PM

on a semi-related note, i'm sure zach's tickled pink that a thread called "truman's entry" is getting all this attention.

Sarita

05-30-2005, 08:53 PM

He better not be tickling anything. That'll make him go blind.

Celeste

05-30-2005, 09:09 PM

Everything Ray said! Let him remain in the finals! :Clap:

maestrowork

05-30-2005, 11:00 PM

Zach isn't asking for special treatment.

It's Jenna's contest, and she will make her decision. It's also Zach's decision to stay in or not.

For the rest of us, we need to be supportive. A little compassion on Zach's behalf. That's all I'm trying to say.

maestrowork

05-30-2005, 11:03 PM

on a semi-related note, i'm sure zach's tickled pink that a thread called "truman's entry" is getting all this attention.

Certainly. It's better than that "Maestro" thread about penises...

:D

sharon

05-30-2005, 11:35 PM

Well, this sucks. I adore Zach and his writing! In fact, after reading his entry (not realizing it was over count and late) I've been trying to decide between casting my vote for him and one other. Incredibly difficult! If he's out, that makes my choice easier this week but, I'd much rather have a hard time deciding than lose him.
I really feel for you, Zach! Here, I've been worried about finding a computer and voting over the next three weeks, as I'll be in Norway. Seems like a non-issue compared to your problem. Whatever decision is made, both on Jenna's part and on yours, I know that you will have a fabulous career in writing, Zach. What an incredible talent you have! Have a great time in China! I hope to see that you're in the finals when I return from my trip.:kiss:

sharon

05-30-2005, 11:41 PM

Certainly. It's better than that "Maestro" thread about penises...

Well, this sucks.

:D Oh, I am soooo sorry. (What can I say?:Shrug:I'm bad).

MacAllister

05-30-2005, 11:46 PM

regardless of how Zach's entry turns out--we love our Trumancoyote, and we're keeping him.

You may run, Zach--but you cannot hide forever...

maestrowork

05-31-2005, 02:20 AM

regardless of how Zach's entry turns out--we love our Trumancoyote, and we're keeping him.

Back off, Mac. I think a bunch of us have already claimed him in the House of Love.

KTC

05-31-2005, 03:04 AM

We can all just cast our vote for Zach and call this week a stalemate. (Sorry, just thinking out loud!)

mkcbunny

05-31-2005, 03:47 AM

for what it's worth, i vote that zach's entry be allowed into the running without prejudice. my guess is that he was off an hour on asian time.

I am confused about one of the issues related to trumancoyote's entry. I understand the word-count issue, but what I don't understand is why, if he posted an hour late, his post shows as being submitted at 12:00 am "Today" [Monday]. That would make it one minute late, vs. one hour late, wouldn't it? Am I time-challenged?

ChunkyC

05-31-2005, 04:11 AM

Tough, tough call. For me, the one hour thing under the circumstances is no big deal. The word count is another.

If Jenna is willing to let Truman's entry stay, then we will have to carefully look at any subsequent breach of the rules and give the same consideration to that breach. The real problem here is that Truman's entry is more than 400 words over the limit. If it was only a few dozen ... but that's a big bulge to overlook.

Drag. I too have Truman on my shortlist this week.

jdkiggins

05-31-2005, 04:55 AM

I am confused about one of the issues related to trumancoyote's entry. I understand the word-count issue, but what I don't understand is why, if he posted an hour late, his post shows as being submitted at 12:00 am "Today" [Monday]. That would make it one minute late, vs. one hour late, wouldn't it? Am I time-challenged?

mkcbunny, my computer showed his post at 1:00 am when he posted and it still shows it as the same time. Not sure why you're seeing a different time.

maestrowork

05-31-2005, 05:02 AM

Because of the US Daylight Savings Time, the time difference between EDT and China are off by an hour, as opposed to during the winter (China does not have DST).

jdkiggins

05-31-2005, 05:18 AM

I enjoyed Zach's entries and felt bad when I saw him post late and over the word count. I think we all know Jenna well enough to know that she set guidelines and rules for the contest, and it would surprise me if she changes them midstream.

Where is Jenna anyway?

mkcbunny

05-31-2005, 05:27 AM

Because of the US Daylight Savings Time, the time difference between EDT and China are off by an hour, as opposed to during the winter (China does not have DST).
This makes perfect sense in terms of how someone in China might be off by an hour. It doesn't explain why jdkiggins and I are seeing two different times display for the same post. For example, her commments above show as being posted at 7:25 and 7:48 PM. I am in California and she is in PA, therefore, they should presumably display to me as being posted at 8:25 and 8:48 PM, as there's a three-hour time difference between us.

I wasn't trying to open up a can of worms; I just didn't see a one-hour-late posting by truman at my end. If the China-to-Daylight-Saving-Time conversion explains the extra hour, then I would hate to see that be the disqualifying factor for truman's submission. However, there is still the word-length issue, which is a separate matter.

rhymegirl

05-31-2005, 05:28 AM

mkcbunny, my computer showed his post at 1:00 am when he posted and it still shows it as the same time. Not sure why you're seeing a different time.

When you first look at your computer, if you haven't signed in, the time is one hour behind. (At least mine is)

mkcbunny

05-31-2005, 05:29 AM

When you first look at your computer, if you haven't signed in, the time is one hour behind. (At least mine is)
I am logged in.

brinkett

05-31-2005, 05:31 AM

It doesn't explain why jdkiggins and I are seeing two different times display for the same post.
In your profile, you can set what timezone you're in. Yours probably isn't set correctly. It's under User CP->Edit Options, I think.

I've noticed that when I'm signed on, the times are correct. When I'm not signed on, the times are always an hour off.

maestrowork

05-31-2005, 05:34 AM

In your UserCP, you can set whether to have DST automatically detected or not.

brinkett

05-31-2005, 05:38 AM

That'll only work for you when you're signed on.

maestrowork

05-31-2005, 05:41 AM

Correct. Thus it explains why some people finds an hour off when they're not signed on...

mkcbunny

05-31-2005, 05:45 AM

In your profile, you can set what timezone you're in. Yours probably isn't set correctly. It's under User CP->Edit Options, I think.

OK, that worked. Just ignore the newbie with the CP problems and get back to whatever you were previously discussing. I'll just go sllink into my hidey-hole now....

And thanks.

Oh, and what I said before about cutting truman a break on the timezone problem ... I can totally see how someone would be confused when travelling and logging in; I couldn't even get it right at home. :(

William Haskins

05-31-2005, 06:10 AM

by any clock setting, it's been nearly 24 hours since all the entries were posted.

jenna?

maestrowork

05-31-2005, 06:12 AM

There is, however, the word count issue and we will wait for Jenna's verdict. But Zach was at least honest and straight forward about it (he didn't have to say anything and probably no one would even notice). So I applaud him for playing fair.

mkcbunny

05-31-2005, 08:01 AM

by any clock setting, it's been nearly 24 hours since all the entries were posted.

jenna?

I know we're all itching for the voting to commence, but it is a holiday, afterall. The call of seared meats and beer in a can may have been too much for poor Jenna to ignore. Not to mention a brief flirtation with sunshine.

Mr Underhill

05-31-2005, 08:43 AM

I'd vote not to penalize him for the time. As Ray pointed out, it is a very long trip. And one really does lose a day crossing the International Date Line. If he flew out Thursday night, the flight was probably long enough to take him into the afternoon of the next day. Except that it would be Saturday afternoon. And then due to the long hours traveling, the time difference and the myriad discomforts and indignities of modern air travel, one spends the next day sleeping.

If anyone is concerned about making exceptions, we could make the same allowance for any contestant crossing the International Date Line from East to West. (Going the other direction you get to live the same day over again in a different city, which is delightful!)

The word count is a different matter. I get 1837 words in the entry. That's definitely a judgment call. Perhaps the last 437 words could be lopped off, and the story voted on that way?

brokenfingers

05-31-2005, 09:50 AM

Well, since this seemed to be the topic of the day I guess I’ll chime in also before I get my 4 hrs sleep til I have to go to work.

I like Zach and feel he has a lot of talent and was definitely a contender for winning the prize.

However, we have here a contestant who has already professed a desire to gracefully bow out.

He has real life issues interfering with this contest and it is not an easy thing to participate in the Idol Contest when you’re sitting at home much less when you’re on a trip to a non-Western nation a world away and don’t have enough hours in the day for that as it is – much less struggling to access the internet and finding the time to write high-quality prose.

Being over word count is being over word count – and while I like Zach and his writing and rooted him on, it is unfair to the other contestants to ignore that fact.

Now I can’t speak for Zach, but it sounds to me like he wanted to bow out but when faced with the clamor of his peers at his feelings he felt he couldn’t just give up and so to save face he still posted an entry - but in a way that would rescue him from the stress of the situation while also not angering his dear friends.

Anyway, I realize the decision is Jenna’s and so whatever we say is moot, but I feel all this commotion will only serve to make Zach more miserable if the rules are bent and he is placed under pressure to perform again in his extenuating circumstances.

And if you are truly his friends – you will not selfishly demand that he stay but let him go on and do what he has to do and allow him to bow out with his pride and honor intact.

Just my thoughts at 1:15 am…

trumancoyote

05-31-2005, 10:31 AM

Hey, guys :)

I appreciate all the hubbub -- I'm a queen, and who doesn't love a good fuss?

Truth be told, I'd love to stay in the contest, but I would be extremely uncomfortable w/ an exception being made on behalf of the word count.

I'd graciously accept the timezone one, as that was just silly on my part.... but the word count? That's a bit too much, methinks.

Thanks, though. Thanks to everyone who's been so supportive; there are so many ways that you guys HAVE been supportive and it's great.

Sorry to make trouble.

But the contest has been fun :)

... oh, and Jenna... when're you gonna open up this **** for votin', huh?

trumancoyote

05-31-2005, 11:34 AM

I just checked to see how the story got posted, and sweet Christ was it formatted shittily. The computers I have available to me suck :) Heheh.

I'm sorry for offending the eyes, everyone.

I'd go back and change it, but it's kinda funny.

maestrowork

05-31-2005, 05:56 PM

Zach, thanks for staying with this. I know under the circumstances, you could have easily just quitted, but you didn't. I really appreciate your diligence. Too bad you didn't have time to edit and trim the word count. Well, I guess rules are rules (I still think an exception could have been made. Oh well).

You did well. That's what counts.

rhymegirl

05-31-2005, 06:02 PM

Zach, we love you and you're still a winner to us.

:) :) :) :) :)

Unique

05-31-2005, 07:10 PM

You did great - and that's a fact, Zach! Keep in touch and let us know about all the fun you're getting into over there.

ChunkyC

05-31-2005, 07:59 PM

I echo the comments above, Zach. You have indeed made fans and friends here. You're an extremely talented writer and I expect we'll be seeing your work on the bookstore shelves before long.

Whether you stay in the contest or not, keep in touch as much as possible and let us know how you are doing over there. And try to pop in and vote on the subsequent rounds, ok?

*huge pat on the back for a job well done*