Odd guidelines from DAW

[Nangleator]

Good gracious! This page (http://www.penguinputnam.com/static/html/aboutus/DAWsubmission.html) suggests I print my ms. out on 8" x 11" paper. Don't they mean letter size? 8.5"? Or will I have to strip a half inch off of a ream of paper? I'm not that accurate with scissors.

[ChunkyC]

So that's why they rejected me!

[Jamesaritchie]

Good gracious! This page (http://www.penguinputnam.com/static/html/aboutus/DAWsubmission.html) suggests I print my ms. out on 8" x 11" paper. Don't they mean letter size? 8.5"? Or will I have to strip a half inch off of a ream of paper? I'm not that accurate with scissors.

Hmmm, maybe that's what so many new writers have been doing wrong. They do mean 8x11, of course, and all the pro writers I know always trim their paper before submitting stories.

[MacAllister]

James, that's just wicked. :ROFL:

[Jamesaritchie]

James, that's just wicked. :ROFL:

Wicked? Don't you think new writers have the right to know such things? I don't think new writers should be rejected unread just because they submit on paper that's half an inch too wide for the editor's inbox.

[James D. Macdonald]

The real secret to getting published is to type the cover letter in red ink.

You remember how typewriter ribbons used to be half red and half black? Did you ever wonder what the red half was used for?

That was so the Real writers could signal the editors.

The other part of the secret was to include a tin of sardines along with the submission.

Now you know.

[MacAllister]

You guys aren't going to go ahead and tell 'em the trick about turning page 27 upside down? So that if you get it back you know whether the editor read that far?

Or sending it certified?

[Zane Curtis]

What? You guys use "letter" size paper?

Wow.

I don't think I've ever even seen a sheet of that in my entirely life.

[Liam Jackson]

A friend gave me the heads-up on the sardines just before I submitted my first novel. Really saved the day for me. (I already knew about trimming off the half-inch.)

What I really need now is the link for that magazine that carries all those guaranteed story ideas.

[Nangleator]

...the trick about turning page 27 upside down...

Ah... So much simpler than my elaborate pattern of dandruff betwixt 89 and 90.

But as every newbie knows, editors read as handily upside down as right side up. That way, they can read valuable bits from the slushpile of other editors they conveniently visit during the day.

As for the paper, perhaps I can hold my manuscript out the car door to grind off that pesky half inch on the way to the Post Office.

[awatkins]

This is where those paper cutters really come in handy. You just have to be careful not to get your fingers in the way when the blade comes down. Office Max carries'em.

Oh, and always send your manuscript certified. That way the editor will know you take things seriously. Thanks for the reminder, Mac.

[MacAllister]

So much simpler than my elaborate pattern of dandruff betwixt 89 and 90.
page 89 and 90!

God, to have that kind of confidence...

[Jamesaritchie]

What I really need now is the link for that magazine that carries all those guaranteed story ideas.

Now you're getting into stuff that's real and serious. I assume you're talking about "Ideas Monthly: The Magazine for Professional Writers."

I guess it's all right to talk about it since Stephen King pretty much let the cat out of the bag after thanking them when he won the National Book Award.

But it won't do new writers any good. You have to be a pro writer with at least three short stories in national magazines, or one novel sale to a mainstream publisher (And the novel must earn out its advance.) before you can get a subscription.

And at $995 per year, it's pretty steep, even for pro writers. But Stephen King did say three of his top novels came about directly because of "Ideas Monthly." John Grisham claims two of his novels came from feature ideas found there.

I know there are those who think it's unfair for pro writers to have access to such a magazine when new writers could probably use it more, but some things have to be earned, and rightfully so. Darned near every selling idea I've had came from "Ideas Monthly," though most of mine come from the "Tidbits & Treasures" section in the back, rather than the fetaures idea section.

They don't have a website, of course, but now that Stephen King broke the news, they aren't trying to keep quite such a low profile, and may well start a website early next year.

[pianoman5]

An old hand in the business once told me that perfumed paper really does the trick, especially with so many readers these days being female. They just love fragrant text.

Oh, and a few stick-on smilies on your synopsis also usually improves their disposition.

[brokenfingers]

Is it true that they prefer it if you hand deliver your manuscript to them?

I'm anticipating my novel to be complete in the fall of 2005 and I'm already practicing a grand song and dance routine guaranteed to impress the editor when I slap my manuscript down on her desk.

Do you guys think I should bring musicians with me or just tote my boombox into the editor's office with me?

[James D. Macdonald]

Make sure you include a bunch of that "pixie dust" glitter in the envelope with your manuscript. Really brings a smile to those jaded ol' editors' faces.

[MacAllister]

And you can have custom color cartridges made, for your print out. I usually use a deep burgundy text on sort of metallic-flecked mustard-color paper.

Stands out better in the slush pile, that way.

Maybe the boombox, BF--just in case the editor's office was once a small closet...hate to make the musicians stand out in the hall.

[sgtsdaughter]

Dude . . . you guys are weaklings. I always stick a 20 in after page 30. All my editors must read that far because I've never gotten the 20 back.

[James D. Macdonald]

Is it true that they prefer it if you hand deliver your manuscript to them?

Absolutely!

Live music is always best.

=============

Oh, and if you can't afford a subscription to Ideas Magazine, pick up a used copy of Plotto by William Wallace Cook. It'll run you around $150 a copy or more, but worth every dime.

[Liam Jackson]

Ideas Monthly. Didn't want to use the name of the rag, here. Yeah, King blew the lid off that one, didn't he? The bastid.

The price is steep, but what the hey! Comes with a money back guarantee! I've been selling aluminum cans to raise the $995, so shoot me the link when you have time, please.

[Medievalist]

Hmmm, maybe that's what so many new writers have been doing wrong. They do mean 8x11, of course, and all the pro writers I know always trim their paper before submitting stories.

Well, duh, why do they think printers talk about trim size?

[Liam Jackson]

Dude . . . you guys are weaklings. I always stick a 20 in after page 30. All my editors must read that far because I've never gotten the 20 back.

Can't always depend on that one. St. Martin's has a slush pile shaker-table.

[reph]

...a few stick-on smilies on your synopsis also usually improves their disposition.
If this is your first contact with the editor, though, it's safer to avoid hackneyed designs like flowers and kittens. I prefer either nudes or religious symbols.

[sgtsdaughter]

Nudes in general, or nudes of the author?

[reph]

Nudes in general, or nudes of the author?
The best choice is nudes of the editor's spouse. They show that you're not just sending your manuscript around randomly: you've done your homework. And it's such a personal touch!

[azbikergirl]

I got some cool paper with clouds and rainbows on it. If I printed my manuscript on that, printed in a Star Trek typeface, and sprayed it with my favorite perfume, do you think I still need to include the sardines?

[James D. Macdonald]

Nudes in general, or nudes of the author?


And some people probably think this is just kidding around. Here's a safety tip for you, boys and girls: First, find out the gender and preferred gender of the editor. If you aren't of the preferred gender the nude photos don't work as well as they should. And ... if you personally aren't, well ... y'know that thread about BIC Butt? How can I put this delicately? Anyway, if you're going to put in an nude photo of yourself be honest with yourself about your personal looks. Really.

You won't believe some of the pictures that are stuck on bulletin boards at publishing houses. With funny captions supplied by the editors.

===============

Is it time to tell the Red Box story?

There was a manuscript that was bouncing from slush pile to slush pile in New York. It came in a handsome red lacquered wooden box, hand-made by the author. (The book, incidentally, wasn't a non-fiction on how to make wooden boxes.)

Editors would greet each other with "Did you get the Red Box yet?" (Remember that the editors all go to the same parties, hang out in the same bars, go to lunch in the same restaraunts, or grab hot dogs from the same pushcarts. They go home at night on the same subways. They all know each other.) The arrival of the Red Box was highly anticipated. The manuscript always got rejected, but the box was a thing of wonder.

Finally, the box arrived at a publishing house, and the author got a letter back: We don't want to buy your manuscript but could you make us a few boxes?

[oswann]

The best choice is nudes of the editor's spouse. They show that you're not just sending your manuscript around randomly: you've done your homework. And it's such a personal touch!


I make a point to change the name of my MC to the editor's name, so they feel like they are really part of the story. Everyone can try it - a sure fire winner :Thumbs:




Os.

[Aconite]

Oh, ye unwashed, uninitiated darlings, I am going to break the conspiracy of silence and tell y'all that Real Authors never, ever submit in anything but 6-point Comic Sans.

And set your margins at .25 inch. Saves paper. Editors appreciate carrying around lighter MS piles.

[aadams73]

Nuh-uh! Real editors love to receive manuscripts in crayon (crayola preferred) scribbled on old underwear. They look on it as a sign of true creative genius. Oh and don't forget to post your "manuscript" in an old trash bag.

[Christine N.]

I find that day glo colored paper is exactly what all editors want. With bold, Calligraphy font triple spaced.

Oh, and a 1.5 inch margin.... all the way around.

[Ketzel]

Well, I'm pretty new here and I do appreciate all you experienced people breaking the code of silence on behalf of the newbies. So if I can just ask a few follow-ups?
(1) How do you stop the cat from eating the sardines? Or am I wrong in thinking you should open the can before you send it, for the convenience of the editor?

(2) Are you actually supposed to personally touch the editor's spouse when you take the nude picture?

(3) I can't make boxes, but I do have some real talent in macrame - do you think that's an acceptable substitute for packaging my ms? Mine has little metal charms attached, but they don't hurt much if you pick up the package the right way.

(4) What do you wear when you personally deliver your manuscript? I've found in NYC that those darn doormen won't let my aluminum hat past the metal detector, so if other people have an idea for a substitute, that would be great!!

[jackie106]

The format doesn't really matter--it's how you get the manuscript to the editor.

Corner her at a writing conference, shove the manuscript into her hands and refuse to leave until she reads the entire thing.

[Ketzel]

OOOh - GREAT idea!! And while she's reading it, I can be conveniently available to explain how I got the ideas and to ask her what she thinks about each page!!Brilliant!!

[Christine N.]

And, because it's me, I don't need to include a SASE. All my materials will be returned, at their expense.

Oh, and what's "Unsolicited?" Does that mean they don't take manuscripts from lawyers?

LOL, this is too much fun.

[Nangleator]

So let me sum up: I should write a non-fiction book about how the publishing industry is full of idiots who just want to maintain their little clique of professional writers (who are all millionaires.) Every editor is also a thief who will steal all the good ideas from the slushpile from every manuscript that isn't copywrighted on every page, registered with the Library of Congress, notarized and stamped by the papal seal.

And also, I should also use some horribly ornate wedding invitation font for my body text. (It just looks more classy that way.)

And once I've broken in to this secret society of professional writers, I'll be set for life, and can turn out any old crap at all, and it'll be champaign slippers and first class every day.

[aadams73]

(4) What do you wear when you personally deliver your manuscript? I've found in NYC that those darn doormen won't let my aluminum hat past the metal detector, so if other people have an idea for a substitute, that would be great!!

It's best to wear nothing. You don't want to make a bad first impression by wearing the wrong outfit.

[ChunkyC]

This is where those paper cutters really come in handy. You just have to be careful not to get your fingers in the way when the blade comes down. Office Max carries'em.
Office Max carries fingers? Cool.

[azbikergirl]

In that case, I should bring along my two armed bodyguards (with their dark sunglasses), and possibly my rottweiler, so the editor can see how important I am. Without my duds and name badge, he/she may not be able to tell at first glance.

[DaveKuzminski]

Damn, no wonder Tor rejected my manuscript. I included nude photos of generals! ;)

[awatkins]

Office Max carries fingers? Cool.

*Heavy sigh* Yes, Chunkster, Office Max carries replacement fingers. How else do you think I'm able to type after all those mishaps with the paper cutter? Duh.

Oh! That brings me to another important point. Editors love to receive blood-stained manuscripts--nothing says heartfelt like blotches of red. And if there's ever any doubt that you wrote the original manuscript, you can always have it DNA tested.

[oswann]

So let me sum up: I should write a non-fiction book about how the publishing industry is full of idiots who just want to maintain their little clique of professional writers (who are all millionaires.) Every editor is also a thief who will steal all the good ideas from the slushpile from every manuscript that isn't copywrighted on every page, registered with the Library of Congress, notarized and stamped by the papal seal.

And also, I should also use some horribly ornate wedding invitation font for my body text. (It just looks more classy that way.)

And once I've broken in to this secret society of professional writers, I'll be set for life, and can turn out any old crap at all, and it'll be champaign slippers and first class every day.



I change the font to suit the characters. For example, the romantic leading lady I would use a nice Palace Script, a drug dealer would be in a font called Groove Machine, I reserve the Comic font for children (possibly animals if they talk).

No more he said, she said. It's obvious! :Thumbs:




Os.

[SeanDSchaffer]

I can't believe all you so-called 'Professionals' are telling everybody all this crap about stupid ways to get published. You all ought to be ashamed of yourselves.

For one thing, the can of sardines must be twenty years old to the day--not when you buy it or when you mail it, but when it arrives on the editor's desk. This is how the editor knows you're a serious writer.

For another thing, these stipid ideas about using colored paper and fancy fonts! They just don't make any sense at all. Everybody who's anybody in the industry knows for an absolute fact that your manuscript must be hand-written with a neon yellow felt pen over the top of a Playboy centerfold picture, and it must be mailed in a brown paper bag so everybody in the post office knows it's on its way to a reputable publisher! I can't believe professional writers would misinform those aspiring to walk in your hallowed footsteps by neglecting to mention such crucial issues within the Publishing industry.

And the replacement fingers that OfficeMax carries? Do you guys realize that if you cut the replacements off with the same paper cutter, you're voiding the warranty and have to properly dispose of them in a cup of Wendy's Chili? I wouldn't go with the OfficeMax replacement fingers if my life depended upon it. (Wal-mart offers just as good a finger as OfficeMax, but with a much better warranty.)

I cannot believe you people!

:Shrug:

[oswann]

I can't believe all you so-called 'Professionals' are telling everybody all this crap about stupid ways to get published. You all ought to be ashamed of yourselves.

For one thing, the can of sardines must be twenty years old to the day--not when you buy it or when you mail it, but when it arrives on the editor's desk. This is how the editor knows you're a serious writer.

For another thing, these stipid ideas about using colored paper and fancy fonts! They just don't make any sense at all. Everybody who's anybody in the industry knows for an absolute fact that your manuscript must be hand-written with a neon yellow felt pen over the top of a Playboy centerfold picture, and it must be mailed in a brown paper bag so everybody in the post office knows it's on its way to a reputable publisher! I can't believe professional writers would misinform those aspiring to walk in your hallowed footsteps by neglecting to mention such crucial issues within the Publishing industry.

And the replacement fingers that OfficeMax carries? Do you guys realize that if you cut the replacements off with the same paper cutter, you're voiding the warranty and have to properly dispose of them in a cup of Wendy's Chili? I wouldn't go with the OfficeMax replacement fingers if my life depended upon it. (Wal-mart offers just as good a finger as OfficeMax, but with a much better warranty.)

I cannot believe you people!

:Shrug:



Now you're just being silly. Sheesh, Playboy.

Os.

[SeanDSchaffer]

Now you're just being silly. Sheesh, Playboy.

Os.


I thought it was Playboy. Maybe it was a different one? I was in a bit of a huff, after all.:Shrug:

[aadams73]

Oh! That brings me to another important point. Editors love to receive blood-stained manuscripts--nothing says heartfelt like blotches of red. And if there's ever any doubt that you wrote the original manuscript, you can always have it DNA tested.

Next time, soak the paper in sweat and tears. Editors love that.

[awatkins]

And the replacement fingers that OfficeMax carries? Do you guys realize that if you cut the replacements off with the same paper cutter, you're voiding the warranty and have to properly dispose of them in a cup of Wendy's Chili? I wouldn't go with the OfficeMax replacement fingers if my life depended upon it. (Wal-mart offers just as good a finger as OfficeMax, but with a much better warranty.)


Ooops. My bad. So sorry.

[Liam Jackson]

Manuscripts stuffed with $50.00 bills, based on story ideas from Ideas Monthly, on triple-spaced day-glo paper, hand-illustrated with nude pics of general sardines, drawn with crayon in comic script (1.25" margins) inside tin boxes, hand-delivered to the editors home, by millionaire elves riding shetland ponies, after you've given fair warning at a conference (any conference except PTA will do) and made out with the Chief Publishers poodle in the backseat of an AMC Gremlin...

...are all pointless unless you know the secret handshake.

[Nangleator]

page 89 and 90!

God, to have that kind of confidence...

Well, of course the editor is going to read to the end of my infodump. That's when the story starts!

[ChunkyC]

...are all pointless unless you know the secret handshake.
Which is why you should make sure you buy the highest quality replacement fingers. You don't want one coming off half way through the 'shake.'

[Aconite]

Corner her at a writing conference, shove the manuscript into her hands and refuse to leave until she reads the entire thing.

This works best if you corner her in a bathroom stall.

[Christine N.]

See? I knew you needed to know how to draw General Sardines.

Ah, yes... the handshake. After you learn it you can get your decoder ring, so that you can decipher the rejection notices. See, everyone gets form rejection notices, but real writers know the code, so that they turn into acceptances.

[reph]

Damn, no wonder Tor rejected my manuscript. I included nude photos of generals!
You're learning, Dave. Next time, use photos of privates.

[Albedo of Zero]

I got some cool paper with clouds and rainbows on it. If I printed my manuscript on that, printed in a Star Trek typeface, and sprayed it with my favorite perfume, do you think I still need to include the sardines?



You don't need the sardines If you use a classic scent like Hai Karate or Colt45 but be prepared to settle for less than 80% from gross sales then.

[Liam Jackson]

And people say there's nothing in this thread to benefit the aspiring author!

Naysayers! SSPffttt! I spit on them!

[Vexinvixen]

Uh, I was wondering about the sardines. I know, tradition and all that. But if the editor has a Scandinavian name, might it be acceptable -- in fact, might it not be BETTER -- to send, instead, a jar of red herrings? Or if you want to really, really impress them, lutefisk?

Just wondering. I'm not ready to submit anything today. I ran out of glitter-ink and I have to borrow a paper cutter, and I haven't gone through the document yet to change the names of my characters to reflect the names of the editor's family ... and stuff ... but I know a place where I can order lutefisk. Do you think it would help?

And, uhm, I hate to ask, but it usually comes frozen. Do you think I should thaw it, just to be helpful, or send it packed in dry ice, to keep it frozen, in case they want to save it for a special occasion? Like when my book gets published and I make millions of dollars?

Oh, speaking of dollars -- there seemed to be some controversy over where to place the twenties and fifties. I think it might be wise to use both, don't you? Does anyone have any advice on a surefire method of robbing a bank? I am, after all, still a starving, barely published writer, and I don't have twenties and fifties just lyinging around. But there are lots of banks. And it might be something I could use, in another book, someday. Grist for the mill, you know.

I loved the idea about using a different font for each character. Some things are just so obvious once someone points them out to you -- you wonder how you could have gone so long without thinking of it yourself, you know?

Thanks for all the great help. I know you folks have changed the lives of countless aspiring authors. Such unselfishness. It brings tears to my eyes.

[MacAllister]

It brings tears to my eyes.

Mine, too...

[jackie106]

Originally Posted by jackie106
Corner her at a writing conference, shove the manuscript into her hands and refuse to leave until she reads the entire thing.



This works best if you corner her in a bathroom stall.

Especially if you are a guy. Don't worry about going to prison for attempted rape, you'll get a lot of good storylines in the joint!

Jackie

[awatkins]

Such unselfishness. It brings tears to my eyes.
Mine, too. Oh, wait, that's an eyelash.

[LightShadow]

To shame . . .

[Kate Nepveu]

Finally, the box arrived at a publishing house, and the author got a letter back: We don't want to buy your manuscript but could you make us a few boxes?(catching up after too long away)

. . . well? Did the author make the boxes?

[Lenora Rose]

It's best to wear nothing. You don't want to make a bad first impression by wearing the wrong outfit.

However, you forgot an important safety tip here: Wear a coat before coming into the building. While police have theoretically been told that anyone who flashes writerly ID their way is also allowed to, er, flash, there have been some controversial reports in the paper lately about wrongful arrests. I think the excuse was that they mistook the trash-bag for wino-gear.

Also, in winter, about frostbite.

Nuh-uh! Real editors love to receive manuscripts in crayon (crayola preferred) scribbled on old underwear. They look on it as a sign of true creative genius. Oh and don't forget to post your "manuscript" in an old trash bag.

Please note, if you go this route, you still have to trim the 1/2" off the edge... usually from the elastic, but double check the guidelines. I think Warner is the one who asks that it be the left seam, but I'm not 100% sure.


Vexinvixen, red herring is considered an appropriate substitute only if you break into their home address and prepare it yourself from fresh-caught in their kitchen. (Though this method has one advantage; it's an ideal time to collect the nude photos of the spouse, though it does mean you have to arrive early so you have time to get the photos printed.)

Lutefisk, however, only needs to be hand-delivered to the office (still frozen).

Sigh. I thought all these things were in the basic guidelines, but nobody seems to read them these days.

[jules]

The real secret to getting published is to type the cover letter in red ink.

You remember how typewriter ribbons used to be half red and half black? Did you ever wonder what the red half was used for?

That was so the Real writers could signal the editors.

The other part of the secret was to include a tin of sardines along with the submission.

Now you know.

Ack. That's what I've been doing wrong. I always thought the best way of writing query letters, when I dug out my old typewriter, was to nudge the switch halfway so that the letters came out half red and half black.

And I've been sending Pilchards (in tomato sauce) too.

Do you think it's too late to resubmit in the proper format?