Too much story for erotica?

[I need to change my forum name to "sorryforthelongpost". I think I may actually petition the forum admins for that change.]

Sooooo...I started looking into erotica because I was working on sort of a UF/SF piece (sans demons, vampires, and werewolves [mostly…there are 'changers in it, but it's sort of a minor plot point]) and I kept running into really hot sex. So I finally just WROTE the damn scenes, and excerpted them out. (Yeah, like that helped...they just invented new ones, and sex became a major plotline in the book).

I took the excepted scenes and built them into another story. Here is my dilemma:

I've started a story that includes the sex scenes from the previous story plus a bunch of others as appropriate. (My mind has a mind of its own.) It's a thriller/suspense/mystery book (surprisingly, since it's not my genre) and the plot is complex enough that I could "close the door" on the sex scenes and it would still make sense and still be intriguing (hopefully – lol), though the sex scenes couldn't be removed entirely...at that point, the plot *wouldnt'* make sense. The resulting book has a story, a rather complex plot that sex is a component of, but not the "end-all, be-all", lots of sex, most of which moves the plot along. But I think from what I'm seeing, market-wise, this is totally unsalable, because it's the wrong genre. Not that that'll stop me; regardless of advice, I'll at least *finish* this story…it's too fun not to.

Vampire/Fantasy/UF/SF seems to be all the rage, and this story is none of those. The other two I'm working on DO fit into those categories, but so far, this story is just sexier and more intricately plotted, and it's the one I keep drifting back to while trying to work on the other two. I'll finish it just because it's great for ME.

It looks like I'm going to end up between 80k and 100k words. Currently, the first actual sex between protagonists doesn't occur until about 1/3 of the way through the book (it's pretty steady thereafter), but there's plenty of sexual flirting, sensuality and voyeurism prior to this. (There's a scene about 1/4-1/5 through the book that is one of my favorite sex scenes ever, but nobody actually does the deed. How much can I say on the public forums?– lol.)

Am I in the wrong genre? (Erotica vs. Suspense) I'm pretty sure it's not publishable as a straight suspense story because it's a ménage story, the sex is plentiful, a chunk of the sex is required for the suspense part of the plot, and it is definitely not M/F-missionary-position-plus-oral which sums up most of the non-erotic suspense stories I've read.

I'm worried that my story is too much story, even though probably 1/3 of it is sex. Most of the commercial erotica/erotic romance that I have read thus far doesn't have much of a *story/plot*, except as it directly pertains to getting 2-4 people in bed together...and sometimes, the story is pretty much skipped reaching that goal. The plot seems to get trampled on the rampage to the bedroom/kitchen floor/hot tub/back yard.

So marketability-wise, what standard to I reach for? I keep reading "Plot! Have a plot! Develop characters!" but I haven't, thusfar, seen a lot of this, at least not to the point where the plot as is important as the sex . On the other hand, some of the sex scenes I'm writing, in context, leave me breathless every time I work on them. Should I just fill up with those? Lol.

I realize this tough to answer without seeing the book, but right now the questions, beyond the ones in the text are pretty general (after seven billion words of explanation):

--Does a suspense/thriller novel have any place in today's market without a vampire, werewolf, etc.? lol

--What percentage of sex vs. plot should I aim for? Is there a percentage of pages of sex scenes I should work toward?

--Is really intense flirting/sensuality/voyeurism an acceptable filler for some of those sex scenes

--What's the definition of "kink"? In my head, if someone isn't violently whipping or peeing on their partner; the partner isn't related to 'em, forced or underaged; and nobody is specifically calling another person "Master" then it's not kinky. I'm getting the impression that the definition in most people's books is a bit more conservative than that. I don't know where the lines are.

Ummmquiring minds want to know.

Thanks again, A.

This is definitely NOT 65% sex scenes, I'm afraid.

It would be difficult to pick a percentage, and will be even when the damn story is done, because bunch of it is seduction/sensuality rather than just sex. So if you counted hot-scenes-that-don't-include-penetration...well, it'd be a lot more than 10%. If you're talking culmination, it's probably 10% to 15%.

And yeah, the particular story I'm working most on is currently a 3-genre novel: Suspense/thriller, romance, and erotica.

J./SFLP

emlynley said:

You don't need penetration to have sex. In fact, you can have some very hot sex without it.

Click to expand...

Thank you, thank you for that, and for the rest of your post. I was beginning to think I was strange. (OK, I *am* strange, but not necessarily in that fashion.)

There are some scenes in this story, pre-"penetration" where people almost have sex, several of which are mostly verbal. (My characters don't "converse" during sex, much, but I have no problem with almost talking someone into an orgasm. heh.)

As the suspense amps up, so does the sex, even though it's two (though inter-related) plot lines.

It may be a saturation problem for me; I've read so many stories and genres in the past couple of months - many of which were sex-over-plot - that my slant on the genre is wrong. (This is why I have a reading list thread. lol.)

Anyway, my story is very sexy, without penetration. (If I removed all penetration and oral sex from the story, there are two scenes that would probably still make it unpublishable from a non-erotica publisher.)

It's nice to know I'm not completely offbase here...we'll see what I end up with the darn thing is done. lol.

J/SFLP

lol - Veinglory, I actually had to look up "frotage". This is such an educational forum.

I think that this story is more erotica than suspense, even though the suspense story stands on its own, though it's hard to say, really, until I get the whole thing done. I just read a couple of Emma Holly's books, and there's more sex in this story that the two I just read.

For this story, I think I *have* moved the actual penetration up a bit, though I don't know if it's flowing as well. I'll get there. It's the first time I've ever tried to write erotica as opposed to just stories where people occasionally have sex, if that makes sense.

When writing general fiction/sci fi/fantasy, I work from several page synopsis outline and often write "out of order"...that is, I can pick a scene in the middle that I want to work on, and write that scene, jump back five scenes and write that one. Odd, I know, but works for me, and seems to add interesting details near the beginning of the story.

That's not working with erotica. I tried jumping into the first penetration scene, and I was up until six in the morning writing, and this guy just would NOT shut up...4000 words, no sex. I finally got exasperated and said out loud "Jesus, Michael, go ahead a f*** her, already." and woke my husband up. ;-) Worked on that scene for 2 or three days, and just wouldn't get there.

I finally went back and wrote everything that leads up to that scene, all the non-penetration sexy stuff, and the scene came off no problem whatsoever...they were ready. So if it worked that way for me, I'm hoping it'll hit readers that way as well, even though it takes a bit for them to actually get to that point.

I'm pretty sure I'll have to adjust the pacing when it's done, though.

J.