LISTEN UP WANDERERS

[Godfather]

i'm gettin' on top and recycling an idea
maybe one of our sweetheart mods will tack this boy up

the poetry pulse of AW is not pumping like it should. there aren't enough of us diving into these poems, myself very much included. we post in critique for a reason, and that reason has not been satisfied of late. so;


CRITIQUE PLEDGE

decide how many poems you will crit this week, pledge it in this thread. and i'll be checkin, dissenters.

[Godfather]

i'm gonna do 10 this week.

0/10

[Stew21]

Real life and work at the day job have kicked my butt this last couple of weeks. I've fallen terribly behind in comments and crits.

I'll match your ten.


7/10

[ddgryphon]

As will I. Put me down for 10. And I don't count one line "good jobs" as crit.

[KTC]

i go in and out of the poetry mindset. at present, i am out of it.

[Godfather]

i go in and out of the poetry mindset. at present, i am out of it.

shame

[Stew21]

Kevin is neck deep in novels. He's excused. :)

[KTC]

hehe. It's not really a shame, GF. What would be a shame is poking your head in when you're not in that space. I come in whenever the poetical side is open. And it never stays closed for long.

[Godfather]

Kevin is neck deep in novels. He's excused. :)

i'm neck deep in college - need to have a portfolio ready for a big college in less than two weeks. no time to kill - but no excuses.

[KTC]

Ooh. You're a taskmaster! Maybe I'll try to open the port a bit through the week.

[dclary]

18/50


Guys, what I've been doing is sorting by replies, ascending. My first goal is to make sure there are no poems without a single reply, and then move to the ones with only one reply, etc.

If we all do this, we'll stimulate the poetry that *needs* critiqueing, because, let's be honest, it's much easier to fawn over a godfather or KTC masterpiece than it is to speak bluntly and honestly about a poem that is flawed.

[Teena]

Godfadder, I'll match your 10 and raise you 2... 0/12... even though I'm not as experienced at this, but seem to have more free time.

[Feiss]

I'll do...18. Majordomo

[AnonymousWriter]

I'll match your ten.

4/10

[Ganesha]

I'm a total creep I'll give you none. I'm no good at critiquing. we all have our talents, yes? Critiquing is a talent that I do not possess. so be it. I surrender.
please forgive me.

[William Haskins]

i'll endeavor to crit 20 by friday.

[caseyquinn]

i will do 15

[poetinahat]

Love this. I know it's been asked before, but I've not had the cajones to commit.

*poing*
*poing*

There we go!

Starting now, going through the weekend (eta: and beyond... but still counting):

12.5/12
Crit 1: Homophony Lost (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129775)
Crit 2: Mutual Exclusivity (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129773)
Crit 3: Untitled (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129997)
Crit 4: Marbles (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130760)
Crit 5: Gardening (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130771)
Crit 6: Things (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130626)
Crit 7: Yellow Walls (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130742)
Crit 8: River Road (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131759)
Crit 9: Or Does It? (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131725)
Crit 10: Warmth (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131791)
Crit 11: Thoughts of a Frustrated Onlooker (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131847)
Crit 11.5: Life Under Leaves (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131650)
Crit 12: "please read my poem" (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132037)

[Priene]

All right. I'll do one.

[AnonymousWriter]

All right. I'll do one.

Oh, now you are generous, aren't you? ;)

[poetinahat]

Not to start anything, but a Priene crit is easily worth ten of mine. They're good - very good. Just saying - that's all.

[P.H.Delarran]

oh good idea.
I'm moving but should be able to sit down by end of week. but just in case, I'll pledge 5 by Sunday.

[Dichroic]

I'm not gonna pledge a number. But I'm back after a week away, so you know I'll be posting crits. What I will pledge is to try to make at least a few of them more detailed and useful ones - because PitH is right, and a Priene crit is worth more than a whole bunch of mine as well. I will try to do better.

[KTC]

Quality over Quantity. Just sayin'.

[AnonymousWriter]

No seriousness intended in my post...just a little light-heartedness.

And yes, quality over quantity.

[poetinahat]

Quality over quantity... but quantity > 0?

I hope all our Laureates Emeriti become this curmudgeonly. Kevin, you'd look great as a marble bust.

[KTC]

Quality over quantity... but quantity > 0?

I hope all our Laureates Emeriti become this curmudgeonly. Kevin, you'd look great as a marble bust.

Why thank you. I may baste in some marble this evening.

[poetinahat]

I'm going to cast myself in bronze, then sit out in the rain.

So I can change my name to patina-hat.

[dclary]

you so did not just go there.

:|

[KTC]

he so did so.


Poetina Hat is my hero!

[Jenny]

I promise to go and write five quick crits right now.

[Godfather]

thanks jen.

kevin, rob, dave, if you dare derail this thread there'll be trouble. and i'm serious. if you want to quip about this post - rep me. just spare the poor thread.

[KTC]

But GF, I've been critiquing. I've been a good boy.

[Norman D Gutter]

GF:

I'd love to crit more, but life has caught me up in a whirlwind, and I'm waiting to land somewhere. Between dealing with layoff of 30% of our work force (I survived--again, but with a second 10% pay cut) and selling my mother-in-law's house and dealing with my brother's and nephew's bankruptcy and trying to figure out what type of writer I want to be when I grow up, poetry just hasn't bubbled to the top of the gray cells of late. I read about half the poems posted and rarely find one I think I can do good with in my diminished capacity. Oh, did I also say I'm on a rigorous diet for health reasons, having lost 13 pounds in the last month, 46 since my peak of a couple of years ago, with only 58 to go to the upper end of my ideal weight range.

So poetry holds no interest for me right now. Maybe in another epic, or another year.

I might also say that I do not like to read profanity, and I have found a tendency toward more frequent profanity in both poems and crits. Not saying y'all should change your ways; just that I get enough profanity at work and don't need to be reading it in poetry forums.

Sadly,
NDG

[Teena]

I've lost count of where I am in my pledge. I think I've done at least 6 or 7. Where's the accounting office? Is it on this floor? I need to ask someone.

Naw... I'll just keep on critting on. :tongue

[Dichroic]

I sort of think of it as a pay-as-you-go system. If I'm posting a lot for crit, I try to critique a lot. If I were posting in the Chapbook, I might rather comment there (or crit - not saying it needs to be eye for eye.) And if I were proposing games, I'd want to play along in other people's games. But if I need to take some time off (like last week's trip - Ice Hotel, yay!) I don't worry about it. I may not be contributing, but I'm not asking for anything either.

And there will always be stuff I won't comment on - sometimes it's one where I can't say anything positive, but sometimes it's just not my thing and others who connect to it can crit better. Sometimes it's so well-done I can't add anything helpful, but then I like to say so 'cause it sucks not to get comments on something you thought was good. :)

[dobiwon]

I've also been out of the poetry mode for a while. I still read a lot, but I can't commit to any specific number of crits. I'll go for one tonight before I go to bed, but tomorrow's likely to be a whole different day.

[poetinahat]

I'm running behind, but I'll catch up in the next day or two. I'm keeping my tally and links to my crits in the original post. It's been kind of fun.

Thanks, Godfather, for the call to action.

[Dichroic]

I was just thinking ... one obvious way to force people to crit more is, if you notice that someone has posted a poem but not critted others, don't crit them.

I see a couple problems with this, however. One is that they'd have no idea why they're being ignored - this is most especially true for newbies, but even an old hand could reasonably conclude it's just a quiet day in Lake AW. Another is that someone's done the work to write a poem, and it seems like poor service to the Muse to ignore that. And a third is that, if you only crit people who crit you, you eventually end up with a useless mutual-admiration society or at best a clique. Of course this is always a risk anyway, but a specific policy would exacerbate that.

No, I have no solution or suggestion. Mostly just rambling. But one thing *is* true: if your own poem is not getting the attention you'd like, go crit some other folks. People do tend to pay more attention to names they recognize.

[AnonymousWriter]

It is a fair idea Dichoric. There was this method of critiquing on another forum I used to visit. You had to do a certain number of critiques for every poem posted. The problem with this was that newbies would just join, post a couple of "Good poem." critiques then post their own poem and expect others to comment on it. This meant that the serious poets and critiquers were left with invaluable comments from people who didn't even read the poem properly.

[P.H.Delarran]

I failed last week as I did not return to the internet until Sunday late evening.
will make time this week.

[Dichroic]

So, GF and others who pledged, where are your crits?

For that matter, it's not just a matter of fewer crits. We're not getting a lot of poems posted, either. Feiss can't do it all herself, you know. Is everyone just in a fallow period?

[P.H.Delarran]

I haven't written a poem I wanted critiqued in ages.
I almost feel guilty for the (few) crits I do give, as maybe I'm not really qualified in this non-creative state. but really, it's all in the works in my brain, ruminating :D

[poetinahat]

I've got a nascent Inauguration Poem that won't behave, and a title that needs a poem (not telling, but it's a beauty!).

[Feiss]

So, GF and others who pledged, where are your crits?

For that matter, it's not just a matter of fewer crits. We're not getting a lot of poems posted, either. Feiss can't do it all herself, you know. Is everyone just in a fallow period?

Feiss feels fallow today

[KTC]

I really don't think we should force crits. I don't think it's a good idea to ignore poems because you noticed the poster didn't crit. If you feel like reading and critting, do it. Too many forums put rules and regulations on this kind of thing. I don't like it. Some days I feel like posting a poem. Some days I feel like reading and commenting. If I see a poem I like and want to comment on, I'm not going to police the poet to see if they are critting before making my comments.

[KTC]

So, GF and others who pledged, where are your crits?

For that matter, it's not just a matter of fewer crits. We're not getting a lot of poems posted, either. Feiss can't do it all herself, you know. Is everyone just in a fallow period?

I did four or five this morning. But I did them because I wanted to...not because I was being policed into doing it.

[Godfather]

So, GF and others who pledged, where are your crits?

For that matter, it's not just a matter of fewer crits. We're not getting a lot of poems posted, either. Feiss can't do it all herself, you know. Is everyone just in a fallow period?

too right brother, i had a hell of a week and didn't have time to think and should have critted nonetheless, but didn't. never follow my example, though

[Priene]

I've got a nascent Inauguration Poem that won't behave

That's nothing. I'm still formulating my entry to last year's Limeydawg Christmas poem competition.

[KTC]

lol, Priene! Good luck with next year's Christmas contest...just try to get it done on time.

[poetinahat]

I really don't think we should force crits. I don't think it's a good idea to ignore poems because you noticed the poster didn't crit. If you feel like reading and critting, do it. Too many forums put rules and regulations on this kind of thing. I don't like it. Some days I feel like posting a poem. Some days I feel like reading and commenting. If I see a poem I like and want to comment on, I'm not going to police the poet to see if they are critting before making my comments.

I'm with you, bud. No rules on that here -- but I heartily approve of anyone encouraging us to interact. A little reminder of how much a word of response can mean is always welcome. And I think an initiative like this makes it a little more fun and less of a chore. (I'm behind on my commitment, but I'm still going to ride it out... I'm kind of having fun documenting the crits I've done.)

I think natural equilibrium takes care of things in general. People tend to crit those who have critted them, and they tend not to crit people who dump heaps of slapdash poems on the boards without reading anyone else's work.

So, yeah, no police, but more of a picnic - open to all.

ETA: I'll throw in that, when the writing doesn't come easily, the critting helps fertilise my poetical mind. It helps me, I think, at least as much as (and probably more than) the poet whose work I'm critting.

[dclary]

So, GF and others who pledged, where are your crits?

For that matter, it's not just a matter of fewer crits. We're not getting a lot of poems posted, either. Feiss can't do it all herself, you know. Is everyone just in a fallow period?

what are you talking about? 263 poems posted/reviewed in crit since the 1st of february. that's 15 a day. that means most people's works are blown off the front page in little more than 24 hours.

There were only 71 poems posted/reviewed in this same time period in 2008.

It's very, very possible that our crit output has remained static, while our poems-posted output has multiplied nearly 4-fold. How do we fix this? I don't know. But it's folly to suggest that we are either in a posting slump or that our output is diminished.

[Dichroic]

I was looking at it just from experience - admittedly not by the numbers. In the few days before I posted that, there were just a few new poems when I checked in each morning, as opposed to a time a few months ago when we'd get nearly a page each day. (That actually *was* a bit much to follow, but there was some extremely good stuff. Not that there isn't now.) It may just be normal variation.

I should point out (and did in a rep to KTC) that I wasn't being quite as obnoxious here as I may have sounded - I wasn't just pestering random people to post crits. GF started this topic to get people to crit more and pledged a number of crits himself, and a bunch of others commented to say "Yes, you're right, I pledge x number" and I was just talking to those people.

[KTC]

I'm with you, bud. No rules on that here -- but I heartily approve of anyone encouraging us to interact. A little reminder of how much a word of response can mean is always welcome. And I think an initiative like this makes it a little more fun and less of a chore. (I'm behind on my commitment, but I'm still going to ride it out... I'm kind of having fun documenting the crits I've done.)

I think natural equilibrium takes care of things in general. People tend to crit those who have critted them, and they tend not to crit people who dump heaps of slapdash poems on the boards without reading anyone else's work.

So, yeah, no police, but more of a picnic - open to all.

ETA: I'll throw in that, when the writing doesn't come easily, the critting helps fertilise my poetical mind. It helps me, I think, at least as much as (and probably more than) the poet whose work I'm critting.


Ooh. I did so enjoy the Police Picnics of old, Rob. **claps hands giddily**

[Stew21]

I've been a lousy participant lately. I'm just entirely overwhelmed in real life junk (work) right now. While I appreciate my bosses trust me to take on so much extra, i'm experiencing a serious crimp in "life-as-I-know-it" at the moment.

My apologies to all of you for not holding up my end here.

[KTC]

Me too, Trish. Pretty Vacant. That's been me.

[Dipstick]

Let's see.... my excuse for a lack of participation.....

uuummmmmm........

the cat ate my mouse?

Not good enuff? ok, I pledge 3-5 by Friday.... it is 11 pm on Thursday evening....

[poetinahat]

Big call, Dipstick. Well done!

I finished my pledge allotment - links in my post on page 1.

Thanks, godfather, for the shoeleather impetus.

[Dipstick]

What really sucks is all that work was 4 years too late... all within 2 hours!

Somehow I see a movie plot in there somewhere....

:e2writer:

[Jenny]

Will everyone forgive me my crits were quick? It's no indication of my enjoyment of the poems (brilliant), just that I had little to say.

Do any poets here feel they'd rather have no crit than a short comment?

[Dichroic]

I appreciate even "I like this", and find "Drags in the middle" style quick crits helpful too. If I post something that gets no feedback I'm left wondering if it's totally sucky or worse, boring. I don't like just saying "I like this" too often, but I will sometimes - especially if it's a poem with not many responses, or if it's an author I haven't commented on in a while. It is useful to know that the reason someone didn't comment is because they don't see anything wrong, or don't have the tools to fix it, rather than the poem's not connecting.

[C.bronco]

Poke me if I don't ante up; it isn't because I don't care. It's just because I'm being tortuerd by in-laws.

[Lady Cat]

I'm no good at critiquing. we all have our talents, yes? Critiquing is a talent that I do not possess.

Same here. My critique would pretty much be either: "I really liked this" or "I didn't really understand this". :Shrug:

[KTC]

What is this thing you call poetry?

[kdnxdr]

poetry: the soul's song

[dobiwon]

Same here. My critique would pretty much be either: "I really liked this" or "I didn't really understand this". :Shrug:But those crits are valuable, particularly if they're followed by "because..."

As many wiser than I have said, critiques here are opinions, and I think most of us value an opinion that might not translate to anything other than "As a reader of poetry, I didn't get it", or "Your poem served its purpose--it made me glad I read it".

We write poems to be read. Isn't it critical to kinow if readers like them?

[LimeyDawg]

Here's an idea...how about only posting one poem per week? I mean, how many poems are we honestly cranking out that are in need of review? Hell, sometimes we can't even get over the buzz of one poem before the author sends us another. Ease up on the posts, and crit heartily for the other poets here. You ought, at a minimum, do five crits for every poem you post. Otherwise, you're taking the piss...

[Dichroic]

Here's an idea...how about only posting one poem per week? I mean, how many poems are we honestly cranking out that are in need of review?

Right now there are a few people participating in PAD, though.

Although critting other people's work is also a good goal for the challenge I posted.... (hint, hint)

[Hoodimann]

My newness is going to show. Please forgive me. :D

What is protocol if I wish to browse and critique? Only in the critique forum, or may I post any critique in any thread here in the Poetry forum as well?

I see that if I want a critique I should post in another forum, which sort of hints to me that no (solid) critiques are really given here...unsure.

I'm sorry I missed this subject in whichever sticky it's likely posted in.

Thank you for your help and your understanding.

:Sun:

[Hoodimann]

We write poems to be read. Isn't it critical to know if readers like them?

Yes.

:)

[poetinahat]

Hi, Hoodimann, and welcome!

I'm not sure I understand your question correctly - what sort of critique do you mean? Are you talking about a critique of a poem already posted here, or something else?

Perhaps it will help if I describe how the forum is set up, and how things tend to work here. If that doesn't answer your question, feel free to reply here, or directly to me via Private Message.

Poetry Critique:
If you have written a poem and want feedback on it, post the poem here in a new thread.
If you want to provide a comment on a poem here, post the reply in that poem's thread.
Body of Work discussions also go here -- occasionally, we'll collect links to one member's poems and discuss them as a whole.

The AW Chapbook:
If you have written a poem and you want to post it, but do not want critiques, post it here. (You might, for example, just want to share it, or you might be using the thread here as a workspace.)
If you want to comment on this poem, reply to the thread -- but please do not critique these poems.

The main forum:
Anything else poetry-related goes here. For example:
- poetry games and exercises
- announcements
- discussions
- workshops
- rate-a-poem (discussions of other poets' works)

Does that help? If not, please let me know.
My newness is going to show. Please forgive me. :D

What is protocol if I wish to browse and critique? Only in the critique forum, or may I post any critique in any thread here in the Poetry forum as well?

I see that if I want a critique I should post in another forum, which sort of hints to me that no (solid) critiques are really given here...unsure.

I'm sorry I missed this subject in whichever sticky it's likely posted in.

Thank you for your help and your understanding.

:Sun:

[Dichroic]

Here's an idea...how about only posting one poem per week? I mean, how many poems are we honestly cranking out that are in need of review? Hell, sometimes we can't even get over the buzz of one poem before the author sends us another. Ease up on the posts, and crit heartily for the other poets here. You ought, at a minimum, do five crits for every poem you post. Otherwise, you're taking the piss...

OK, I'm lame, because I have to admit this has been bugging me since it was posted. I'm as impatient as anyone with people who only post their own work and never offer feedback to anyone else, and that even includes newbies who claim "I don't know enough to critique". (On the other hand I have a soft spot for newbies who come in and jump right in or those who say "I don't feel like I know enough to critique in detail, but I really loved this aspect of this poem".)

But people have different amounts of free time and they write differently - some spin off a poem in a half hour, whereas others take a month. We've also got several people who both post a lot and critique a lot. They're pulling their weight, and I think it makes for a much livelier discussion than if we restrict it. If people could only post once a week, they're not likely to crit much more often, and this forum could get much more boring.

[Feiss]

OK, I'm lame, because I have to admit this has been bugging me since it was posted. I'm as impatient as anyone with people who only post their own work and never offer feedback to anyone else, and that even includes newbies who claim "I don't know enough to critique". (On the other hand I have a soft spot for newbies who come in and jump right in or those who say "I don't feel like I know enough to critique in detail, but I really loved this aspect of this poem".)

But people have different amounts of free time and they write differently - some spin off a poem in a half hour, whereas others take a month. We've also got several people who both post a lot and critique a lot. They're pulling their weight, and I think it makes for a much livelier discussion than if we restrict it. If people could only post once a week, they're not likely to crit much more often, and this forum could get much more boring.


I heartily agree