What's the most useful feedback you've gotten?

[PattiTheWicked]

I recently got a letter back from an agent that I had queried. He had requested the first ten pages of a ms, and wrote back the following:

"This is really fun, and your style is engaging. Unfortunately, as intrigued as I am, this story just hasn't gotten off the ground yet. Jump into it on the very first page, and you'll have a much more engaging story. Best of luck to you."

It was the first time anyone had actually given me feedback with a rejection letter for this particular ms, and it really made me rethink the whole manuscript. Now I'm on a hack-and-slash rampage, cutting out things that really aren't necessary to the story, and I think it's going to be a lot stronger once I'm done with it.

What's the best feedback you've ever gotten?

[veinglory]

Other the hit the ground running it would be a tie between 'use third person' and 'ditch the adverbs'.

[Julie Worth]

"This is really fun, and your style is engaging. Unfortunately, as intrigued as I am, this story just hasn't gotten off the ground yet. Jump into it on the very first page, and you'll have a much more engaging story. Best of luck to you."



Early on I took such comments to heart. Then I realized they were just standard rejections, nicely worded to soften the blow, by agents who likely hadn’t read past the first page. I wouldn’t go hacking and slashing based on that.

[maestrowork]

"Start the story sooner."

[PattiTheWicked]

Early on I took such comments to heart. Then I realized they were just standard rejections, nicely worded to soften the blow, by agents who likely hadn’t read past the first page. I wouldn’t go hacking and slashing based on that.



Since none of the other rejections I got explained why they were rejecting me, it seemed as good an excuse as any to modify things <g>

I figure once it's revamped -- which I was considering doing anyway after umpteen "no thank yous", I'll retitle it and send it out again.

[Julie Worth]

Whatever happened to that publisher that was interested? Were you not able to get an agent based on that?

[Jamesaritchie]

I recently got a letter back from an agent that I had queried. He had requested the first ten pages of a ms, and wrote back the following:

"This is really fun, and your style is engaging. Unfortunately, as intrigued as I am, this story just hasn't gotten off the ground yet. Jump into it on the very first page, and you'll have a much more engaging story. Best of luck to you."

It was the first time anyone had actually given me feedback with a rejection letter for this particular ms, and it really made me rethink the whole manuscript. Now I'm on a hack-and-slash rampage, cutting out things that really aren't necessary to the story, and I think it's going to be a lot stronger once I'm done with it.

What's the best feedback you've ever gotten?

"We could call this story 'The Marble-Shooting Kid. Rewrite the ending and resubmit within 90 days.'

This came scribbled in pencil on the back of a very early rejection slip. I almost missed seeing it. But once I did see it, I knew what it meant instantly. I never made that mistake again.

[Julie Worth]

"We could call this story 'The Marble-Shooting Kid. Rewrite the ending and resubmit within 90 days.'

This came scribbled in pencil on the back of a very early rejection slip. I almost missed seeing it. But once I did see it, I knew what it meant instantly. I never made that mistake again.

The back! My God, I've never looked at the backs of any of them!

[stormie]

The back! My God, I've never looked at the backs of any of them!

Interesting--never did bother to look on the back of those form rejections, either.

[Jamesaritchie]

The back! My God, I've never looked at the backs of any of them!

I almost missed it. I wasn't in the habit of looking on the back, either. Pure accident that I saw it. And even at that, the pencil was not written with a firm hand. It was barely legible.

On a happier note, I rewrote the ending that same day and resubmitted the story. They bought it.

[Torin]

I'm fond of the advice to finish the book first before worrying about agents, publicity and so on. Without a completed novel, the rest is irrelevant. (speaking for fiction writing--non-fic is a bit different).

[PattiTheWicked]

Whatever happened to that publisher that was interested? Were you not able to get an agent based on that?



Different manuscript :)

Yep, I'm trying to get an agent based on an offer from one publisher for a children's alphabet book, and another offer from a different publisher for a YA fiction.

Stuff's in the works, but I'll keep everyone posted.

[BlueTexas]

The best advice I ever got wasn't so much advice as someone taking a red pencil to all the stuff in the beginning that they didn't need to know.

Heartbreaking, but it made the story stronger.

Of course, I haven't gotten very much advice, so ymmv.

[E.G. Gammon]

"Ultimately you have to please yourself before you please anyone else!" - It's not really advice given to me, but it's a great quote from J.K. Rowling.

[Joni Holderman]

An editor once told me: "Most writers overwrite. You tend to underwrite slightly. If you put it on the page, and I don't like it, I can cut it. If you never write it, I can't invent it."

Possibly the only time a newspaper editor told someone they weren't wordy enough. But, the more I write the more I realize the truth of his words.

[brinkett]

An editor once told me: "Most writers overwrite. You tend to underwrite slightly. If you put it on the page, and I don't like it, I can cut it. If you never write it, I can't invent it."

In Stein's On Writing, he says he only ever worked with one writer who had to be told to add words. Everyone else overwrote. So I think overwriting is much more common than underwriting.

[Julie Worth]

I almost missed it. I wasn't in the habit of looking on the back, either. Pure accident that I saw it. And even at that, the pencil was not written with a firm hand. It was barely legible.

On a happier note, I rewrote the ending that same day and resubmitted the story. They bought it.

That’s hopeful in a way. Perhaps the agents are writing with invisible ink. I’ll have to try lemon juice on the next one. I can imagine it saying,


MY BOSS REJECTED THIS, BUT I LOVE IT!
I’M STARTING MY OWN AGENCY.
SEND IT TO ME IN SIX MONTHS.

[scribbler1382]

From a publisher: "Keep trying"

From a fellow writer: "Whenever you feel writerly or clever, immediately go back and scratch that part out."

Cheers,

-- Marty

[SeanDSchaffer]

from Uncle Jim, I believe, in the Learn Writing with Uncle Jim thread. It wasn't personally addressed to me, but it definitely has helped me out quite a bit in the last few months.


Write what you want to write, not what you think others will want you to write.

(Paraphrased)


Believe it or not, that advice was quite profound the first few times I read it. It has since truly affected the way I write.

[maestrowork]

I posted a letter I recieved more than 7 years ago in my blog (http://itheauthor.blogspot.com). One of the things in it that hit me hard was: "...you're not giving yourself enough credit, or you're just not paying attention."

[Nateskate]

"No"

This really wasn't advice, but it was timely, and quite fortunate. I went to a writer's conference, green as a sappling, and had a copy of my mss in hand. I had no idea how to approach an agent/publisher, and I had no idea how the market worked.

So, I asked an editor from Harper Collins if she'd be interested in looking at my work. Obviously, timing means a great deal, and I hadn't even taken the time to write a query letter or summary, and she asked me to explain my book, and it never dawned on me to think of a short way to put my novel into words. Duh! "It's an Epic fantasy," just doesn't cut it.

It's funny in retrospect, very much like an awkward teen seeing a pretty girl, he'd never talked to before, and out of the blue walking up and asking, "Hey, you're pretty. Do you want to marry me?"

The fact that she had the audacity to just say, "no thanks", was one of the best things that ever happened, though it didn't seem very enjoyable at the time. My story was too raw, and needed some major overhauls. In the time that followed, I not only learned so much about the industry and what it's looking for; I learned much about my own writing weaknesses.

We may dream of someday showing our works to someone who snubbed us initially, but I owe that woman a kiss for having the sense to put me in my place, though tactfully.

[paprikapink]

I've found arrowqueen's sig: "rejection is nature's way of telling you to write better" to be quite inspirational and fairly incontrovertible.

[reph]

I owe that woman a kiss for having the sense to put me in my place, though tactfully.
Better ask her first whether she wants one.

[triceretops]

I think my inspiration came from three small press publishers who actually became my friends, and all the other magazine editors who wrote me pages and pages of comments and reviews. I ended up selling to 80% of them, thus starting my fiction career. They all said in part the same thing about me "You have the most unusual style, so unique, so different, I've haven't seen anything like it before."
Although one publisher tried to compare me with a cross between Roald Dahl and Stephen King--if that even makes sense.

I'm probably one of very few writers who actually strived to be a stylist. I considered Poul Anderson to be a stylist and he wrote me voluminous letters, encouraging me to continue on. Peter Benchley, and Alan Dean Foster were hot on my lists, and too, told me I had something special. One magazine publisher flat out gave me $500.00 just toward my writing career, because he professed to everyone that I would eventually hit it big. All of this beautiful support, and kind words has kept me going, and I will never, ever forget those positive attitudes.

My agent said, "yep, you got some magic here, strong visuals, and always heavy in action/adventure--stay there if you can. Use more contractions, avoid excessive use of first-person pronouns, and SPRINKLE your characterization. Oh, and don't cross genres."

Now, today at AW, I've learned about that pesky passive voice problem from Unc Jims thread, and that's very valuable to me, since somehow, that one escaped me.

And as crew member six said on Galaxy Quest, "Heck, man, I'm just happy to be here."

Tri

[Maryn]

My most valuable advice came from a movie, A River Runs Through It, and applies so directly to me that I have to wonder if the writer spied on my critique group.

Half as long.

Maryn, whose critique group has echoed those words

[mistri]

Early on I took such comments to heart. Then I realized they were just standard rejections, nicely worded to soften the blow, by agents who likely hadn’t read past the first page. I wouldn’t go hacking and slashing based on that.



I'd say that the first half of that rejection sounded standard, but the second half less so. I probably would hack and slash based on it - after all, if it helps you to realise that your story isn't really starting on the first page, why would you leave it the way it was?

[Julie Worth]

- after all, if it helps you to realise that your story isn't really starting on the first page, why would you leave it the way it was?

Perhaps this would be a good exercise: Write first pages for a week. Just the first page, no second page. Give the best one to your beta readers. Only when everyone asks for more, only then begin writing the book.

[maestrowork]

Perhaps this would be a good exercise: Write first pages for a week. Just the first page, no second page. Give the best one to your beta readers. Only when everyone asks for more, only then begin writing the book.



But how do you know which one is the best?

[Julie Worth]

But how do you know which one is the best?

Part of the problem with page one is that it’s usually the first page you write. You’re not into the flow. You don’t know what you’re doing with the story. So the idea (untried, I’ll admit) is to knock out first pages until you get good at writing them. Can you tell which is best? Of course you can! Hell, you already know page one of your novel has problems. You know chapter two is so much better. Aren’t you thinking, if they would just keep reading they would see how great this is!

[LightShadow]

Once I had a shortstory rejected with the following message in the rejection letter, that was signed by the lead editor: Your submission suits the needs of our magazine, but we are unable to publish it at this time. We receive 850 manuscripts per month and are only able to publish one per month by an unpublished author. Your story does not lack a new idea, or was not professional enough. It simply did not rise above some of the other 849 seen this month. Thank you for giving me the chance to read your ambitious story, and best luck to you with it.

[Jamesaritchie]

Once I had a shortstory rejected with the following message in the rejection letter, that was signed by the lead editor: Your submission suits the needs of our magazine, but we are unable to publish it at this time. We receive 850 manuscripts per month and are only able to publish one per month by an unpublished author. Your story does not lack a new idea, or was not professional enough. It simply did not rise above some of the other 849 seen this month. Thank you for giving me the chance to read your ambitious story, and best luck to you with it.

By any chance, was this a Garnder Dozois rejection?

[LightShadow]

By any chance, was this a Garnder Dozois rejection?Gordon Van Gelder - although it does read a lot like the Dozois form letter, doesn't it.

[Jamesaritchie]

Gordon Van Gelder - although it does read a lot like the Dozois form letter, doesn't it.

Yes, it does, though it sounds more like what Gardner writes when he really likes a story and then doesn't buy it. From my experience, he tends to mimic the good parts of the form letter. Gordon would have been my second guess. Both use roughly the same language when they really like a story. . .but then don't buy it.

But Gardner is no longer there, and I haven't submitted a story to F&SF for several months. I think I need to change gears and write a few more short stories.

[James D. Macdonald]

Gordon is at F&SF. Gardner was at Asimov's.

[Jamesaritchie]

Gordon is at F&SF. Gardner was at Asimov's.

Yes, I know. I just worded the sentence poorly. Gordon actually owns F&SF, and Gardner still hangs around the Asimov's forum.

My problem with F&SF is getting a story past J.J. Adams, though I sure appreciate the fast turnaround a first reader provides.

But through no conscious choice on my part, I seem to have stopped writing short stories altogether. I really need to write a few, considering I've always found them more fun to write than novels.

[azbikergirl]

I've only recently gained an appreciation for short stories. Never used to write them, but recently I started participating in a 24-hour short story contest every quarter. I realized that I don't care if I win the contest -- the exercise of being given a topic to write about, a word count limit and a deadline has been lots of fun and oh so helpful for stimulating my creativity.

For the first time ever, I submitted a short story to a paying magazine this weekend.

[scribbler1382]

For the first time ever, I submitted a short story to a paying magazine this weekend.

That's great, az! Keep it up!

[Mistook]

Starting the story on the first page is always sound advice. I'm writing something of an epic, so it carries over to the first pages of every chapter that introduces a new POV character.

Just this week I started a chapter that focused on a character we'd heard about, but never seen directly up until this point. Despite all my "experience" and self-torture about avoiding the pitfalls, my brilliant brain decided to start the scene off with a weather report, and three pages of boring exposition about the history of this woman's house and how she came to buy it - none of which has anything to do with the plot.

I had to sit and ask myself, "Why is her home important?" I wanted to establish her location, of course, her taste in things, and her level of income - all of which have a bearing on the story. More importantly, I wanted to allude to the fact that she was capable of purchasing more property - as this is critical to the plot. Lastly, for characterization's sake, I wanted to show how she lives from day to day.

In the end I concocted a snappy phone conversation between her and her real-estate agent, that touches on a few important points, and hints at a few more as she is lazily sitting on the couch in her bathrobe. It only took half a page - and worked much better than the original draft.

[Thomas K]

Don't write when you feel the inspiration, write because you're a writer. If it's the former, you're probably a hobbiest.


That's my version of the best advice I've gotten. It did wonders for my productivity!