Your pet peeves in fantasy

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efreysson

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Got any frequently used fantasy stock characters, plot devices or situations that get on your nerves?

In my case I get very annoyed when the supposed hero of a story succeeds pretty much exclusively because of all the help he got. Those stories where, say, the MC escapes assassins due to being hidden by friendly farmers, makes it to the forest where the elves guide him through a monster-infested area, after which he survives an encounter with an ogre solely due to a magic item given to him by a hermit, then survives an ambush by royal guards due to the rebels showing up to help him, etc. etc . . . He's less of a driving force, and more of a passenger, being knocked into various directions by others.
I find this especially grating when the hero is some variation of 'The Chosen One!!', and is supposed to be some mighty, awe-inspiring champion.

Heck speaking of 'The Chosen One!!' it also bugs me when such a character is for the most part a total putz who spends most of the story whining about how he's not the great hero, only to finally pull himself together during the final battle. A recent movie example that spring to mind is the portrayal of John Connor in Terminator 3. The future savior and leader of mankind just came across as boring and weak.

I mean, I don't want invincible Mary Sues, but if I'm going to read through a doorstopper, the main character needs to have SOME chops of his own, don't you agree? What's wrong with characters that are flawed yet impressive?

Another thing that irks me is a cast-iron prophecy predicting the victory of the good guys. You know, the one that prompts the evil tyrant to take extreme measures to prevent it, only to actually set the hero on the course of eventually destroying him. An epic victory that is apparently inevitable doesn't really seem like much of a victory to me.
A seer's prediction plays a major role in setting my MC on the path that eventually leads to victory, but the seer makes it clear that it's merely the path most likely to end well.
 

SPMiller

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I have absolutely no problem reading about characters who aren't nigh-invincible badasses who can force most people around them to do whatever they want, as is the case in most fantasy novels. Vulnerability and weakness are interesting to me.

However, I've come to dislike stories about children. Too often, stories about adolescents fit the hero's journey mold, and I'm finding that old story template to be worn a bit thin. Pre-adolescent children tend to be too mature and world-wise to be believable.

I also hate fantasy cover art. I swear, maybe a single-digit percentage of covers don't have either a drawn sword or a woman in an armored bikini that leaves portions of her midriff unprotected. Bonus points for women in steel bikinis wielding swords.
 

Death Wizard

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Got any frequently used fantasy stock characters, plot devices or situations that get on your nerves?

In my case I get very annoyed when the supposed hero of a story succeeds pretty much exclusively because of all the help he got. Those stories where, say, the MC escapes assassins due to being hidden by friendly farmers, makes it to the forest where the elves guide him through a monster-infested area, after which he survives an encounter with an ogre solely due to a magic item given to him by a hermit, then survives an ambush by royal guards due to the rebels showing up to help him, etc. etc . . . He's less of a driving force, and more of a passenger, being knocked into various directions by others.
I find this especially grating when the hero is some variation of 'The Chosen One!!', and is supposed to be some mighty, awe-inspiring champion.

Heck speaking of 'The Chosen One!!' it also bugs me when such a character is for the most part a total putz who spends most of the story whining about how he's not the great hero, only to finally pull himself together during the final battle. A recent movie example that spring to mind is the portrayal of John Connor in Terminator 3. The future savior and leader of mankind just came across as boring and weak.

I mean, I don't want invincible Mary Sues, but if I'm going to read through a doorstopper, the main character needs to have SOME chops of his own, don't you agree? What's wrong with characters that are flawed yet impressive?

Another thing that irks me is a cast-iron prophecy predicting the victory of the good guys. You know, the one that prompts the evil tyrant to take extreme measures to prevent it, only to actually set the hero on the course of eventually destroying him. An epic victory that is apparently inevitable doesn't really seem like much of a victory to me.
A seer's prediction plays a major role in setting my MC on the path that eventually leads to victory, but the seer makes it clear that it's merely the path most likely to end well.

I tend to agree with most of this. I don't like MC's that are borderline bumblers. I like my MC's very strong -- not so strong that they overwhelm all resistance, of course, but strong enough to put up a damn good fight, even early on.

One small pet-peeve is that I don't like it when writers use the verb "fire" when it comes to arrows. You don't fire an arrow.
 

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Genuine prophecies (as opposed to prophecy that is self-fulfilling or which is simply superstition). People seem to not realize that prophecy is essentially time travel, and invokes all the same ridiculous causality paradoxes that (for me at least) completely burst the suspension of belief. But more importantly, genuine prophecy in fantasy is all too often the herald of a plot-driven story rather than a character-driven story, in which cardboard cutout characters perform actions not out of some internal consistency or coherent motive but rather because the story requires that they do so (see e.g. the works of Sara Douglass)

Fawning sidekicks. Actually, scratch that -- I hate this not just with sidekicks, but with any kind of character who spends the bulk of his/her 'on-screen' time talking about the protagonist, obsessing about the protagonist, or wangsting over the protagonist. In other words, I hate it when the protagonist is the center of the universe: when everyone is defined entirely by their relation with the protagonist, and/or no one else seems to have lives of their own, and they have to live vicariously through the protagonist (David Weber, I'm looking at you!). Which leads me to the next pet peeve...

Moral compasses where the protagonist defines North. i.e. Where the morality of a side-character is determined by their alignment with the protagonist -- those who oppose or don't like the protagonist are evil, while those who like (i.e. obsessively adore) and obey the protagonist are good. Meanwhile the protagonist can do no wrong: actions that would qualify the antagonist as the vilest scum to ever walk the Earth go unquestioned when the protagonist does them (see e.g. Terry Goodkind...strike that, don't see Goodkind, stay away!).

'Hero' and 'Villain' as career-paths. Or in other words, any character whose occupation could legitimately be described as "doing good" or "doing evil" (except in parodies like The Incredibles or Soon I Will Be Invincible).

Evil Races, especially Evil, Ugly Races with 'Guttural' Languages. i.e. Orcs knock-offs.

Viewpoint Diarrhea, otherwise known as "Erikson's Disease". I don't like it when there are too many viewpoint characters. I can follow and identify with two, maybe three really good characters (or a few more if you write as well as G.R.R. Martin), but if the author expects me to give a shit about 9+ characters, or even to remember their names, then I am afraid that's expecting too much.

Oh and yes, I agree that the "fire" thing with arrows is really annoying...
 

Death Wizard

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Genuine prophecies (as opposed to prophecy that is self-fulfilling or which is simply superstition). People seem to not realize that prophecy is essentially time travel, and invokes all the same ridiculous causality paradoxes that (for me at least) completely burst the suspension of belief. But more importantly, genuine prophecy in fantasy is all too often the herald of a plot-driven story rather than a character-driven story, in which cardboard cutout characters perform actions not out of some internal consistency or coherent motive but rather because the story requires that they do so (see e.g. the works of Sara Douglass)

Fawning sidekicks. Actually, scratch that -- I hate this not just with sidekicks, but with any kind of character who spends the bulk of his/her 'on-screen' time talking about the protagonist, obsessing about the protagonist, or wangsting over the protagonist. In other words, I hate it when the protagonist is the center of the universe: when everyone is defined entirely by their relation with the protagonist, and/or no one else seems to have lives of their own, and they have to live vicariously through the protagonist (David Weber, I'm looking at you!). Which leads me to the next pet peeve...

Moral compasses where the protagonist defines North. i.e. Where the morality of a side-character is determined by their alignment with the protagonist -- those who oppose or don't like the protagonist are evil, while those who like (i.e. obsessively adore) and obey the protagonist are good. Meanwhile the protagonist can do no wrong: actions that would qualify the antagonist as the vilest scum to ever walk the Earth go unquestioned when the protagonist does them (see e.g. Terry Goodkind...strike that, don't see Goodkind, stay away!).

'Hero' and 'Villain' as career-paths. Or in other words, any character whose occupation could legitimately be described as "doing good" or "doing evil" (except in parodies like The Incredibles or Soon I Will Be Invincible).

Evil Races, especially Evil, Ugly Races with 'Guttural' Languages. i.e. Orcs knock-offs.

Viewpoint Diarrhea, otherwise known as "Erikson's Disease". I don't like it when there are too many viewpoint characters. I can follow and identify with two, maybe three really good characters (or a few more if you write as well as G.R.R. Martin), but if the author expects me to give a shit about 9+ characters, or even to remember their names, then I am afraid that's expecting too much.

Oh and yes, I agree that the "fire" thing with arrows is really annoying...

Excellent points!!!

(Although I love Erikson, nonetheless. He always draws me in in the end. But Reaper's Gale has been disappointing, at least the first 650 pages of it.)
 

SPMiller

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Pretty sure that guy who uses Erikson as a pen name has a lot more than nine POV characters. If you count all the one-offs, he has probably used several dozen.
 

Mr Flibble

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I also hate fantasy cover art. I swear, maybe a single-digit percentage of covers don't have either a drawn sword or a woman in an armored bikini that leaves portions of her midriff unprotected. Bonus points for women in steel bikinis wielding swords.

Do I win a prize then? :)

Gotta agree with the points above - but of course if it's written so well I don't notice...

Oh yeah what I hate most is three pages of bloody info dump! If it absolutely has to be told - do it as and when we need it in small bite size pieces. Please.
 
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Much like any other novel, constantly and flagrantly violating point of view. Lies of Locke Lamora may have a great plot, ideas, even characters, but I'll never find out because I just don't find it readable when the author can't stick to one character's impressions and thoughts at a time.
 

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Generally I love fantasy, but there are a lot of points in this forum I totally agree with.

Something that bugs me? Wizards. Not all wizards, just the ones who probably could have told you all about everything, but for reasons unknown, decide to withold half of the information until the very end of the book. If there's a good reason, I don't mind waiting, but if it's just because they feel like it, wizards (the usual medium for such exposition) just become annoying.

Another thing that gets me every time is when there are pages of scenery discription that have nothing really relevant to the progression of the plot. It's just a long list of adjectives describing exactly what so-or-so is wearing, or such-and-such field. In the end, it's inevitable that the MC moves on without a second glance. They pass GO without any symbolic meaning, then they pick up their 200$ and run, never to return or allude to the three pages I slogged through.

And Palace Guards. I feel so sorry for them! Why do the heroes always have to cut their way through the poor palace guards who are only having a bit of gambling fun at the end of a long day standing around guarding the palace? On that note, why can't the Palace Guards fight back? @_@ Confuses me.


The thing that bothers me the most about fantasy, however, are numerous sequels. I'm all for the sequel in most senses of the term, generally because I love coming back to a good set of characters and finding out what they're up to, whether they survived, where that gosh darn sword actually is hidden ... but I hate when you get to book five, and all of a sudden, without any warning whatsoever, some minor character from page three of book one pops up and expects you to remember everything about them because they've suddenly become part of the plot. I've seen this done way too many times without even a passing line of discription. I'd appreciate even a little "oh, hi, Tara! How's your tavern back in the village?" to spark my memory. Alas, for there is often no explanation!


Ah, well, I guess if you got rid of all the things that bug us about fantasy novels, we wouldn't have fantasy any more, right? New is wonderful, but smatterings of old elements are what make the strangest of new worlds feel comfortable and familiar.
 

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"Chosen Ones" should be banned by the publishing industry for the next decade at least. "Dark Lord" should have been trademarked by Tolkien, so nobody else could use it. And prophecies... away with them!
 

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Tavern brawl scenes.

Elves.

Boy wizards.

Vampires.

Series. (But only because I get too impatient waiting for more parts, and prefer to buy all parts at once. The world needs more standalone stories!)

Weird character names as the title.

Really weird pompous cliched fantasy-sounding names, period.

High fantasy. (Sorry. I just don't get most of it.)

With females, the smart, bookish twin and the bumbling goofy twin; OR, with males, the muscular, heroic twin and the weak but hyper-smart/powerful mage twin (and they usually don't even look remotely alike). (Other than that I'm fine with twins.)

I'm sure there's more but this is the most annoying stuff. Even with the above, though, I'm willing to forgive if it's all presented in an interesting manner. (I've got nothing against the farmboy out to save the world, though I haven't read much of that so that might be why; maybe if I read more I'd hate that cliche too.) The thing is, these things have been so overdone that I'll usually sneer at the book before even giving it a shot.
 

eLfwriter

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But ...!

Elves are cool! They're descendants of the Sidhe! Not all elves have to be tall, perfect and graceful imortal beings! Some of them are down-to-earth, wonky attitude, just-as-important-as-the-huge-guy-with-an-important-slash-legendary-sword characters!

I protest. Dwarves are more annoying than elves. Not little people. Just the dwarves that have beards that fall to their ankles and live for digging up jewels.

So there. :wag:
 

Gynn

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Dragons.

I'm so tired of dragons. Get a sphinx as a companion/end boss. Or a manticore. Or an evil unicorn that shoots darkness from its horn. Anything.
 

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Addendum to my earlier griping about point of view: It's not enough to just stick to one character's thoughts and impressions at a time. In addition, please do not interject your own thoughts and impressions into the narrative. You're the author. I don't care how clever you are, I don't want to know you're there, because then I remember I'm reading a novel, and I want to pretend the stuff happening is real, dammit.
 

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Tavern brawl scenes.

as soon as i saw this i knew this was coming

But...but...that's what pubs are FOR! Macho pride + alcohol = fisticuffs.

ive never actually been in one, but i know a lot of people who have, and that seems to be what they are for. people get drunk, then they fight.

my biggest pet peeve is when a character has to go one place and gets there is a week, and then goes another place that is half the distance and takes two weeks to get there.

and seriously, you don't fire an arrow, you loose. its called fire with a fire are because guess what? they use fire. its loosing with a bow because guess what? you let it go.
Micro rant

Dragons.

I'm so tired of dragons. Get a sphinx as a companion/end boss. Or a manticore. Or an evil unicorn that shoots darkness from its horn. Anything.

but dragons are so big and firery. bah in reallity they do get over used, for a "rare" species. i perfer human enemies myself.

i use elves, but thats for a lack of better names. they have elven fetures but they are a lot closer to humans than the run of the mill elves.

going to stop before i ramble.
 

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I really really hate exposition. We don't use exposition in our lives to convey what cars are (for the most part at least), why should book characters use exposition to relay unusual ideas? It can be difficult, it might take striking your keyboard more times than not, but man if you're going to write, then write. Let it flow from the heart and let it be, don't waste time by explaining everything. The reader is smart, they'll pick it up. Don't spoon feed us please!

Believe me, I have tried very hard to eliminate exposition, or to disguise it into something else that still explains what I'm trying to convey without getting MY voice in there. Let the characters experience it, view it, let them relate it via their lives to the audience, not lay it out straight for the reader to lose the momentum of the story over.

As for series, I love series. A really good series can lay a great single book in ashes of itself. No single book ever gives me the feeling of finality. I always want more, more, more. As long as the author can keep it interesting, even if it requires changing characters every so often, or following bloodlines. Once a world becomes part of your blood, your soul, it hurts to let it go. Always I am left asking, "but then what happened?"
 

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Dwarves are more annoying than elves. Not little people. Just the dwarves that have beards that fall to their ankles and live for digging up jewels.
Pointy-ears has a point. For crying out loud, even TOLKIEN thought long-bearded jewel-diggers were overblown.
 
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