Smokin' Heroes

[NeuroFizz]

Hi, All,

I’d like to start a discussion on protagonists who smoke cigarettes. I am disturbed by the fiction/Hollywood portrayal of smoking as cool, manly, sophisticated, etc. This problem may be more Hollywood than anything else, but written fiction drives the movie industry.

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DISCLAIMER. I am talking about fictional characters who smoke. I’m not judgmental about writers who may smoke, so nothing I say here is directed at the writer. I’ve read a previous thread on physical manifestations of smoking, so I know there are a significant number of smokers who read/chime in here. This is not aimed at you.

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I’m not against cigarettes in our stories. We have to be real. But, we all bear a responsibility here as well. My main objection is that smoking has become entrenched in the characterization of so many of our fictional heroes, we may be perpetuating, unwittingly, the portrayals above, particularly for our younger readers*. In terms of habit-based reactions to stressful situations, interesting substitutes can be found (from a characterization point-of-view). For oral fixators, Kojak and his lollipops come to mind.

I am not a crusader against smoking. This is not personal. But I stop dead when reading about a sympathetic character/protagonist/hero who is handsome (pretty) and athletic (fit) and proceeds to light up a cigarette. Are some smokers athletic and fit? Of course. But there is no positive correlation. In fact, I believe there is a strong negative correlation. Here’s my objection: Cigarettes are useful props, and have their places in stories, but they are also overused to the point of being cliché. How many hardboiled detectives have a cigarettes hanging from the sides of their mouths? Are the cigarettes necessary to the character, or just a perceived characteristic of the occupation? I ask everyone to find a good story-based reason before having a character smoke. And make it real. If one is striving for reality, he/she should not only have a character light up at the conclusion of a mop-and-bucket sex scene, but also have the character’s partner awakened the next morning by the sounds of the character hawking up a tar-stained loogie in the bathroom (In know, I know. Both are stereotypes, but they are included to make a point).

To be really controversial, I’ll suggest that using cigarettes CAN BE like using any other cliché—lazy writing. Not in all circumstances, or course, so don’t come unglued. However, including cigarettes in our writing shouldn’t be automatic—it should be well thought out. Remember, for characterization’s sake, smoking is an addictive, self-destructive habit. It will serve many writers well in that vein. By the way, if you want to add a layer of tension and a serious subplot to a detective series, write a story with the protagonist attempting to give up a smoking habit.



Mount and ride.



*I am aware that writing about serial killers isn’t going to drive a reader to go out and kill, but the perception of “coolness” and the imitation of celebrities and movie characters is a real, powerful problem for everyone in our culture, particularly for younger people.

[KTC]

Ummm. My characters tell me whether or not they smoke. It's as simple as that. I don't smoke...I detest it and I am so glad it is no longer allowed in public places...but some of my characters smoke. I don't make the decision though, it sort of comes out in the story. I don't think people should take the time to consider something like this...and neither do I see it as a cliche. My characters who smoke wouldn't be the same if they didn't. I don't think that I am promoting smoking by having characters smoke. It's really a non-issue.

[reph]

I ask everyone to find a good story-based reason before having a character smoke.
Historically, there was a writing-based reason. Having characters handle cigarettes enabled writers to manage dialogue scenes without using so many repetitive speech tags. Fictional detectives were always lighting cigarettes and extinguishing cigarettes so you wouldn't have to read "____ said" again, like this:

"I counted the money twice." Smith lit a cigarette.

Now that smoking makes a character a bad role model, he can fidget or look out the window or do something else to let the reader know who's talking.

[katiemac]

Hey Neuro,

You've made some very good and interesting points. I started the smoking thread in the research board which I'm assuming you were referencing early in your post.

To be completely simplistic about why I chose a smoking protagonist: smoking is imperfect, and so is she. Outwardly, that seems to be a very cliched way of going about it, as there are numerous other ways to emit imperfection. But in this instance, smoking shows a vast amount of things about her personality and gives her more emotional detail, all of things I'm not going to relate here for novel privacy. (And also because even though the WIP draft is done, these smoking scenes are new additions and are as of now mostly unwritten.)

The fact she smokes reflects on other people as well as herself. What are the values of those around her who don't smoke? Who do? Who ask her to quit? (There are many.) Who casually light up with her at a late night at the bar? Will she quit for those who care about her? If she doesn't, will they leave her?

I could go on. Anyway, I've found reason to believe it works. I hope it does. These are just the casualities of any generic smoking protag. Very important to my pages are the actual reason the protag picks up the smokes in the first place, why she's addicted, but all of these questions and little details help revolve the story in a very different way.

Anyway, that's just my two cents.

[DaveKuzminski]

It also depends on the story. I've written some that featured smokers as main characters and one that required a main character be a smoker. However, I've also written some that feature absolutely no smoking simply because it's not present in their worlds as a product or plant.

[LightShadow]

In a society that has decided it must be politically correct, sometimes a writer must alter course to concur. I tend to make my protagonists non-smokers unless they need to be a smoker to help show that they are a compulsive person or obsessive or whatever. Not that I'm saying smokers are these things. I'm a smoker, smoking less and less each day. Still, usually my smokers in my books and stories are bad guys, and cigarettes are rarely used overall. That's just me. Ultimately, I agree that not only must we be careful because of the message sent, but also, some publishers might frown if they are opposed to smoking heroes.

[Jamesaritchie]

I think it depends on the book and the character. I doubt I'd have a smoking protagonist in a romance novel, but I think we have as much a responsibility to portraying the world as it really is as we have to influencing young people.

And to be honest, many of the things I see protagonists do without a second thought strike me as just as self-destructive as smoking, and often considerably more so.

I don't like political correctness of any form, and I'm not about to automatically make a smoker a shallow chested, self-destructive person who constantly hacks and coughs, any more than I'm going to make everyone who takes a drink in a story an alcoholic who cheats, lies, and steals to get his next drink. I've known far too many smokers who simply do not fit this profile.

And not all smokers are trying to quit, or even want to quit. Many love to smoke, and so do their mates/friends/relatives.

Few things drive me crazier than trying to read a novel where only the bad guys smoke. That ain't the real world, folks. It especiallly drives me crazy when the good guy doesn't smoke, but he drinks, sleeps around, cusses, takes foolish chances with his life, and does a dozen other things I'd rather my kids not do. In real life, most men who live like this also smoke. If not cigarettes, then cigars, or pipes. Or they dip snuff. High stress lifestyles tend to produce a far higher percentage of smokers.

There are at least 47,000,000 smokers in the United States alone, and not all of them are bad guys. The true number is probably closer to 57,000,000. UIt's a mazing how many pro athletes are closet smokers. Be true to the characters and to the real world. Just tell a story filled with real people, and leave the judgements up to others.

[Vomaxx]

Let's see... Winston Churchill smoked cigars; FDR smoked cigarets; Hitler couldn't stand smoking and in fact one of the first government anti-smoking programs was initiated by the Third Reich....

Mr. NeuroFizz, :crazy: , kindly go sit on a tack. :)

[CACTUSWENDY]

I am a smoker. My lead 'hero' just stopped smoking and several times makes reference to the fact that ...."a cigarette would sure taste good about right now"....or.....something along those lines. I have made him share that quitting was the hardest thing he has ever done.

My story has a couple of other smokers...one a cigar... but only for evidence reasons is it made known.

Let your story go where it leads you and realize that some of their other 'habits' may not be very pleasing either. IMO...:popcorn:

[astonwest]

My main character drinks heavily from time to time...sometimes I can use it to advance the plot...and as someone mentioned, it's make the character appear less than perfect.

[jules]

Most of my stories are SF set in a future where smoking is much less common than it is today. One novel is set on a world where the effects of tobacco haven't been discovered by the natives, and the people who do know about it aren't going to tell them until they find out themselves...

That said, if I did have a major character who smoked, I feel it would have to be important to the story line. They'd probably be addicted to the point where it actually became a problem for them: perhaps they _always_ smoke in stressful situations, and then one comes along where for some reason they can't, and they suddenly can't concentrate on what's happening. Or they're trying to hide, but one of the bad guys notices the odour of cigarette smoke hanging around. Or something like that. Any new ways of causing trouble for the hero are most welcome. :)

[jules]

It especiallly drives me crazy when the good guy doesn't smoke, but he drinks, sleeps around, cusses, takes foolish chances with his life, and does a dozen other things I'd rather my kids not do. In real life, most men who live like this also smoke.

Really? I know a fair number of people who match this description. Fewer smoke than don't.

[LightShadow]

So what ya'll are sayin' is habits of characters need to be used at discretion, but not necessarily bent at the whim of society. In short, if it helps the reader understand the character, and it advances the story, use it. If it don't, don't.

[MacAllister]

Hmm. I have a hard time picturing a WWII-era novel without a bunch of smoking characters...

[LightShadow]

Hmm. I have a hard time picturing a WWII-era novel without a bunch of smoking characters...Good point. Research the era, the geography, and decide from there if smokers are appropriate. You want it to be as close to real life as possible, unless you're a SF or Fantasy writer, I suppose.

[BradyH1861]

People in certain professions tend to smoke more as well. (By more, I guess I mean a higher percentage of those in those fields smoke). Just to name a few:

1. police officers/detectives (already mentioned Reph's post)
2. firefighers
3. EMT/Paramedics
4. ER Nurses (at least where I live)
5. Criminal Defense Attornies (I don't know about other types)
6. private investigators

Those are just a few that I can think of off the top of my head. If you have a protagonist who works in one of these fields, and they smoke, then IMHO, they would be a more believable character.

But that's just my .08 cents worth.

Brady H.

[LightShadow]

One of my main characters is a private eye, but he's from the south, so rather than have him smoke, I have him chewing tobacco every once in a while. It depends on how you want the reader to perceive the character, and smoking may say one thing, but combined with other traits it might say something totally different about your character.

[maestrowork]

Have you ever gone to the back kitchen at a diner? ;)

Or the back lot of a movie set?

Bottomline, if your character is a smoker, for cryin' out loud, let him smoke. If you have to be so PC about everything (no smoking? no drinking? no drugs? no sex? ...) write a children's or Christian or something everyone is so squeaky clean.

My characters are going to have a joint right now...

[LightShadow]

Have you ever gone to the back kitchen at a diner? ;)

Or the back lot of a movie set?

Bottomline, if your character is a smoker, for cryin' out loud, let him smoke. If you have to be so PC about everything (no smoking? no drinking? no drugs? no sex? ...) write a children's or Christian or something everyone is so squeaky clean.

My characters are going to have a joint right now...I agree, but it also depends on the audience your targeting. Hell, whatever works. I don't care. Ultimately, it's up the writer and the perceptions the writer desires.

My characters' not sure if the good life is good for him, so he toils with habits, justifying them and berating them simultaneously.

[pepperlandgirl]

When I was working on Mad World, my male protagonist casually struck a match and lit a ciggie in the opening chapter, and I knew right then he was a smoker. I didn't plan it that way. I didn't even think about it. he just did it.

In New Frontier, my main guy asked for his tobacco and my main gal surprised us both by saying, "Nope, sorry." So I guess he quit. That's ok. He was too distracted by other things to really worry about it.

Smoking isn't great, but I guarentee I never lit up because I read about it or my favorite character on TV smokes (he smoked a lot!). I probably started because my dad was a smoker and I grew up enjoying the sweet, sweet aroma of his second-hand smoke (I really did enjoy it). Hmmm, so perhaps instead of worrying about what authors and fictional people are doing, maybe we should be more concerned about parents...

[LightShadow]

It's individual business, although being a smoker myself I try to be considerate by smoking outside away from non-smokers. Characters often reflect ourselves, so one of my characters does the same. I don't think readers ultimately care, as long as it helps the story progress. If the character smoking helps the story, let them smoke. If them smoking does not help the story progress, than it's best not to let them be a smoker.

[maestrowork]

If them smoking does not help the story progress, than it's best not to let them be a smoker.

Why? Not everything is about the story.

[LightShadow]

Why? Not everything is about the story.Character is plot, and plot is story, so in my eyes everything is about the story, or at least directly related to it.

[reph]

I notice more superfluous drinking (of alcohol) in fiction than I notice superfluous smoking. Maybe that comes from having grown up around people who seldom drank. In stories and movies through the 1960s or so, characters are always going to bars or mixing Martinis in their homes. Hospitality takes the form of offering a guest a drink. I guess daily drinking must be routine in some U.S. subcultures, but it seems forced to me. All those cocktails and shot glasses remind me that I'm reading fiction: real life as I'm familiar with it isn't like that.

By "superfluous" I mean the action doesn't advance the plot or help the story.

[LightShadow]

I notice more superfluous drinking (of alcohol) in fiction than I notice superfluous smoking. Maybe that comes from having grown up around people who seldom drank. In stories and movies through the 1960s or so, characters are always going to bars or mixing Martinis in their homes. Hospitality takes the form of offering a guest a drink. I guess daily drinking must be routine in some U.S. subcultures, but it seems forced to me. All those cocktails and shot glasses remind me that I'm reading fiction: real life as I'm familiar with it isn't like that.

By "superfluous" I mean the action doesn't advance the plot or help the story.I suppose sometimes a "superfluous" addition helps in the sense of setting scene, etc., but honestly I think that anything in the story for the most part should advance the story...obviously there are always exceptions to these.

[arrowqueen]

Depends where/when you're setting your story, surely? If it's a 1920's speakeasy, they'd all be smoking themselves into a decline. Nowadays your smokers would be huddled, like pariahs, outside their office building in the rain.

I remember my dear, departed mother-in-law telling me about one of her friends who was 'bothered with her nerves.' The doctor recommended she take up smoking.

Oh tempora. Oh mores!

[Pencilone]

Smoking is so wrong and so many people die because of it, that I feel that we could very well do without it.

Sorry, I could not help it.

[NeuroFizz]

Thank you all for your helpful responses. The intent wasn’t to slam smokers (I think I made this clear in the original message), or to be politically correct (sorry, not made so obvious). The thread originated from a discussion I had with several friends/acquaintances (good mix of smokers and non-smokers) from which a consensus emerged suggesting that in contemporary novels and films, the frequency of smokers is greater than that in a cross section of the “average” US population. Speculation turned to a suggestion that smoking isn’t given the same careful thoughtfulness as other personality traits when writing main characters for film or novels, rather it is considered a desirable trait in terms of the image it portrays, and therefore appears out of proportion. There wasn’t any empirical data presented in these discussions, it was just speculation. Was I expecting you all to be so shallow that you would include smoking without careful thought? Not at all. Personally, I’ve written smokers (tobacco and otherwise) into my stories, but I had to re-write one as a non-smoker because my original decision was based solely on stereotype. I was nicked with the “cliché, lazy writing” criticism in this case. Because of this, I’m hypersensitive to the issue. This also motivated the thread, and from the majority of your responses I am happy that my lapse puts me in the extreme minority. But the intent of the thread was more than that. This forum is designed to help us all improve our writing, and I faulted myself for the weak excuse of writing in a smoker without good reason. I wanted to see how you all handled the situation. Why the controversial approach (intended controversy, not PC)? This is a hot topic these days with all of the governmental pressure to restrict smoking. I thought the best way to get into it was to present the conservative view—whether we like it or not, our writing does reflect social mores, and what we write (arguably more for film than for novels) can influence those mores. So, the final thing I wanted to gauge is whether anyone takes this into account when they consider writing in a smoker. So, forget the PC argument. Forget the emotion. If you choose to further consider the topic, please HELP me sort all this out in my own writing through your experiences. I’ve found that the collective voice in this forum is one of reason, and helpfulness.

I really appreciate Reph’s historical slant because it places the use of smoking in fiction in an historical framework. Thanks also to MacAllister and LightShadow for reinforcing that smoking is just as era-dependent as it is dependent upon certain occupations and segments of society (thanks, Brady).

Yes, I know that many good people smoke. Yes, I know that many bad people don’t smoke.

But, go sit on a tack? Thanks, but I’m trying to quit.

[Mike Martyn]

The novel I'm currently writing is set in 1962. Back then everyone smoked. My sister is a nurse who's been in the profession since the early '60 and they all smoked everywhere in the hospital except around the ether of course.

Cigarettes and pipes are wonderful props. You can jab a cigarette towards someone for emphasis, you can take a long languid drag, you can puff nervously, thugs can flick lighted butts in your face. The intelectuall can full his pipe, light it with a wooden match while musing on the day's odd happenings.

[triceretops]

Hmm. I have a hard time picturing a WWII-era novel without a bunch of smoking characters...

I was just going to say take a look at any of the 1940's b/w films and you're hard-pressed to find the characters not lighting up. Betty and Bogie always look like they have a brush fire going on within the set. For a period piece, I think it's quite acceptible. If no one smoked or chewed in period western, I'd wonder what the heck was wrong.

Tri

[LightShadow]

But back then everybody wasn't trying to be politically correct. Sometimes even an accurate depiction of a byegone age can be seen as possibly distasteful, or sending a wrong message. I agree it shouldn't matter, but those picky people out there are the ones that buy the books, so it does matter. So, I wonder how many of those readers are smokers.

[pianoman5]

It seems to me that our job as novelists is to use life-as-we-know-it as one of our major plot elements, therefore anything that is a part of life deserves a place in our work.

If there really are 50 million addicts in the US, smoking is an activity outnumbered in popularity only by sex and burger-and-cola consumption. So who are we to deny its existence?

It's every writer's privilege to include pro- or anti-anything propaganda in their work, of course, but as Sam Goldwyn allegedly said: "If you want to send a message, call Western Union." He was in no doubt that his first and foremost duty was to entertain, which is generally done best when we tell the truth about the world including all its inglorious manifestations.

I've unashamedly included a reference to it in my WIP as a little observational aside. My protag is on his way to a downtown meeting and is looking for the building it's in.

.... Smokers were hanging round the entrances to most of the buildings he passed, whom he regarded with the odd mixture of sympathy and contempt peculiar to reformed addicts like himself. Driven out into the elements for their sins, the pariahs drew deeply on their cigarettes to absorb enough nicotine to satisfy their previous urges and stave off the next.

Round shouldered and hanging their heads as though carrying a burden of shame, they had an air of defeat about them; but George sensed also a certain defiance. He saw looks exchanged, glances that passed like invisible tokens of understanding between the persecuted few. Of course! Early Christians had their Sign of the Fish, and twenty-first century smokers have the Fellowship of the Squashed Butt. Comfort was to be had from huddling together to wallow in their collective degradation wearing their Unclean! status like a badge of honour.

I recently read a very funny satirical novel about the subject - 'Thank you for smoking' by Christopher Buckley (son of William F.), which I can highly recommend for the way it deals with the political correctness, cynicism and hypocrisy surrounding the subject.

His protag is a Washington tobacco lobbyist, and his best pals are lobbyists for the liquor and firearms industries. They call themselves the MOD Squad - Merchants of Death. One of his tasks is to convince/finance Hollywood film producers to include smoking scenes in movies as a form of product placement. I understand that this happens in RL.

[reph]

It was in the 1960s that information on the health hazards of smoking leaked out to the American public. A realistic story set before that could easily include smoking characters, though it wouldn't have to. For decades, smoking was simply thought of as a habit that some people had, like chewing gum.

Similarly, a novel set in the 17th century might have a doctor bleeding a patient for his health.

[SRHowen]

OK--I am not a smoker, but what drives me bonkers is the idea that these smokers are somehow unclean or unaccepted.

Where I work (a 7-Eleven) we got our twice weekly truck order today. Anyone wanna guess how many cartons of cigs we had? Some facts about the little town I live in (pop 25,000) There are 3 7-11's. and about five other convenience stores.

So, the truck today had 250 cartons of cigs. That's 500 cartons of 10 pack each. Not all are sold as cartons the main bulk is sold as packs--but 500 per week, just at our one store. We live near a Army base--so there is also the places on base to buy them, and in town near here which is 3 times the size. But lets just take my town of 25K.

500 x 10 = 5000 cartons per week--just in the convenience stores in town, and I think there are more than the 10 really. OK, 10 packs per carton. That's what--50,000 packs per week. In a town of 25K? WOW the numbers even surprised me. Think about that--that's 2 packs per week per person, and of course not everyone smokes, and there are the many customers who buy 2 packs, or even 3 packs each and every day at a cost of a little over 10 bucks with discount on the 3 pack deal.

This doesn't include snuff--lets take Copenhagen our top seller--30 tins a day average--and we have about 20 different kinds of snuff, chew, pouches etc that do not sell as well. Seems unreal in light of all the Stop smoking, it's bad for you and so on.

Having a story with no smokers would seem unreal, there are going to be smokers. And they are not just going to be huddled outside doorways.

Oh and just to also mention, the cast majority of smokers are those we card--just turned 18 or under 30. It's not a dying habit. Parents buy them and I watch the kids--eyes sparkling you can almost see the wheels turning--that's what adults do--they smoke so if I want to be "grown up" then I'll smoke too. Kids reach for their parents smokes and the parents say, No, those are bad for you.

The kids--translate, bad for kids but adults do it so it must be OK for them.

Sorry, just throwing out the unreality of a story with no smokers set in our society.

I am so against the PCization of novels that it drives me bonkers to see it -- can I say Black in my story, can I have a smoker, can I have a gay man? On and on--

Everyone can find offence with something no matter what. Will our stories have only thin people, who have perfect life styles--have someone grill a steak and you may offend the Vegan, mention Christ and you may offend the Wiccan, have the characters only shop at the nearest organic market--after all we should preach a healthy life style, no character would drink beer, or even eat a potato-chip. Diet soda --oh wait, we better not, that artificial sweetener can kill you. She put on her lip stick--oh wait, wasn’t there that study that said they fed a mess of rats about a billion tubes of the stuff and they got cancer, we don’t want to promote cancer do we?

Fiction, main stream fiction would become more of a fantasy than Genre Fantasy.

Our goal as a writer is to entertain, not preach--well, that may be some writer's goals--but shouldn't we tell the story with the richness of diversity that is our culture and tell it like life really is--if it's that sort of story, rather than the hazy view through the eyes of Pcism?

[reph]

OK--I am not a smoker, but what drives me bonkers is the idea that these smokers are somehow unclean or unaccepted.
Shawn, that idea is the prevailing attitude where I live. U.S. culture is by no means uniform.

[SRHowen]

Where you work, or your entire city? I would think it is more along the lines of the circle of people you have around you. But maybe not.

I don't smoke, my hubby doesn't smoke. My best and really only friend does--like a smoke stack. I find "dipping" a nasty gross thing--ugh. These very nice looking guys and gals come in to buy their snuff--good clothes, nice hair--ect et el--then smile--instant urge to vomit.

The town where I live just imposed a smoking ban, you can't smoke in any public places. Now while I applaud the idea, wow, I can go to a nice place to eat and not have to breathe smoke, I still don't see the smokers as huddled in shame.

They stand outside at the limit to the space ordered from the building and puff away.

My biggest irritation with it right now, where I work we don't get breaks--unless you smoke, then you get to go outside and puff for 5 min. I'm diabetic and when I go to take my shots, some workers there roll their eyes and comment that I get to take less than 3 min to go take my shot. NOTE: management, my manager has no problem with it. But these same smokers go outside and smoke and think it's their right to have a break to do so. Those there who do not smoke, or have to take an insulin injection end up with no break at all--not even 5 min.

Sorry, off soap box.

I just somehow think a story with no smokers because it is the "right" thing to do is silly. The whole be PC in writing drives me nuts.

That's why I said what are we going to do---have stories with only the moral ideas of the rules of PC in them? Only have stories with fit healthy never smoked, did drugs, had sex except in the marriage bed (oh wait what is a marriage?) and so on---we as writers need to tell a good entertaining story--we are not here to tell people how they should live.

Now if you write Christian works, then please PC and morality away by the beliefs of your group--but when writing for the general population I just don't think we should be making our writing PC for fear of censure or being accused of promoting something.

[NeuroFizz]

Sorry, but I think this is getting a little off track. I'm not suggesting that anyone write a story that omits smokers. I don't omit them. I'm suggesting that we give the same careful thought to that particular personality trait as we would any other trait, and I think the people who have addressed that particular question have answered that, yes, they do. My other question, do we bear a societal responsibility in this arena, is a philosophical one wrapped in this very emotional topic (it could also be raised with other emotional topics: abortion, gun control, foreign war . . .) I'm not a crusader against smoking, or for taking it out of fiction. I am against it being a default trait included without careful consideration. So, it's not PC to me, but everyone has their own PC threshold, and everyone can be accused of being PC on something they believe in. What I'm taking from this, and thanks to all of the respondents who haven't suggested that I injure myself, is that we should be accurate and true to the mores and traditions of the era and socio-economic situation we are writing. For contemporary stories, that means that just maybe we have to give a little more thought when making a character smoke than in a setting just five or ten years ago, never mind farther back. On the other hand writing has the same basic rule as academia--academic freedom = artistic freedom. And, I do remember that we are writing fiction. We should also write what we know, and a cross section of writers should give, on balance, a cross section of our society.

[Liam Jackson]

"Making characters smoke...:

I can't think of a single instance in which I've ever "made" a major character do anything. It was either that character's personality trait, or it wasn't. I've never written a lily-white protag, either. Even the best of the best have been flawed, some severely. The character will let me know if he or she smokes, helps little old ladies across the street, masturbates in public restrooms, shoplifts from Walmart, attends Mass, or all the above.

I can already hear the Amens from one side of the house and the "you're full of BS" from the other. Makes no difference. Simple truth is, if I ever tried to hand-roll a major protag or antag, I'd spill half the character tobacco all over the keyboard.

Minor characters are a different matter. I tend to use them like props to flesh out the scenery while also advancing the story.

[LightShadow]

Without flaws the characters don't seem real. Does that make smoking a flaw?

[reph]

Where you work, or your entire city?
My entire city and all the nearby cities and probably a larger area than that. My city recently banned outdoor smoking within 25 feet of entrances to commercial buildings. That means smoking by individuals. Cars can still drive by, park, and unpark with stuff coming out of their exhaust pipes.

I work at home. The authorities haven't yet limited smoking in one's house.

[LightShadow]

My entire city and all the nearby cities and probably a larger area than that. My city recently banned outdoor smoking within 25 feet of entrances to commercial buildings. That means smoking by individuals. Cars can still drive by, park, and unpark with stuff coming out of their exhaust pipes.

I work at home. The authorities haven't yet limited smoking in one's house.So Cal they did that a long time ago.

[SRHowen]

"Making characters smoke...:

I can't think of a single instance in which I've ever "made" a major character do anything. It was either that character's personality trait, or it wasn't. I've never written a lily-white protag, either. Even the best of the best have been flawed, some severely. The character will let me know if he or she smokes, helps little old ladies across the street, masturbates in public restrooms, shoplifts from Walmart, attends Mass, or all the above.

I can already hear the Amens from one side of the house and the "you're full of BS" from the other. Makes no difference. Simple truth is, if I ever tried to hand-roll a major protag or antag, I'd spill half the character tobacco all over the keyboard.

Minor characters are a different matter. I tend to use them like props to flesh out the scenery while also advancing the story.

I'll add an Amen to that---

[reph]

Without flaws the characters don't seem real. Does that make smoking a flaw?
No, if smoking is a flaw, it's one for other reasons. Needing a flaw to make a character seem real doesn't make any particular behavior a flaw.

The kind of flaw that helps in fiction is something about the character that makes something happen in the story. For instance, someone is habitually lost in a fantasy world of imagined future triumphs [FLAW]. He meets his demise in reality because another character takes advantage of him when he isn't paying attention or he's misinterpreting bad signs [STORY ACTION].

[DixieChic]

If you look at film and television there's very little smoking going on these days. Personally, I've always found the sitcom FRIENDS incredible unrealistic because I don't know any twenty- or thirty-somethings who sit around a coffee shop after work. Everyone I know hits the nearest happy hour at the first available opportunity. (Also, I don't know any twenty-somethings who could afford that Manhattan apartment, but that's another story . . .)

Let 'em smoke! But be realistic about it. Cuz real smokers ain't that glamorous anyway -- your clothes stink, no one wants to down-wind from you and you're treated like a complete social pariah. Try enjoying that "glamorous" five-minute smoking break while huddled with your fellow smokers under a three-inch overhang outside your office during hurricane season!

(Deep breaths, Dix, deep breaths . . . where the heck is my nicotine gum!?)

sigh. My point: if smoking is as realistic a part of your poor character's existence as every other part of his/her character, then leave it in.

-Dixie
(cigarette-free for four months . . .)

[SeanDSchaffer]

...And I'd like to chime in on it myself, if I may.

A lot of people smoke. It only makes sense, therefore, that characters in a world in which smoking is an option would occasionally light up.

It wasn't all that long ago that this would have been a moot question. If someone lit up a cigarette, so what? It wasn't the end of the world, even if it might have been rude under some circumstances.

I personally will, on occassion, light up a smoke if I just want to sit back and relax for a few minutes. So I see no harm in a character -- good or evil -- that occassionally lights up a cigarette either. It doesn't make the character evil or good. It makes the character a smoker, nothing more and nothing less.

Just my two cents.:hat:

[Pencilone]

Whether you like it or not, books and films really influence minds.

More often than not, there is a popular actor in a film smoking away like saying: "Look how happy this makes me!” and many times this does not move the plot forward, or reveals character, or creates atmosphere. Many times it just makes me wonder why the hell is he smoking when he could do something else, more revealing to the story? I know that in films made 20 years ago or so, people did not know that while smoking, he was actually injecting himself with drug and the feeling he experienced was just illusion. But many think that that's OK to show in a film or a book, and they would be really revolted to see adverts about smoking on TV.

Smokers do not make the choice to smoke all their life, they promise themselves that sometime soon they will give up, but not right now, as it is not the right moment. Many NEVER stop smoking, even when their legs are amputated or they have cancer. THEN they smoke more often then ever before.



Smokers do not want to be told that they should not smoke. When there is the one-day per year internationally proclaimed as " non-smoking day", they smoke even more on that day (at least I know, because me and my friends were smoking even more on that day).



There are smokers that think that they can stop smoking whenever they want, only that not right now. Tomorrow. Many will never do it, remaining prisoners of the drug all their life.



Many people still think that smoking it's a habit. If it would be just a habit, it would be so easy to give up, but it isn't. Smoking is a drug. One starts craving it soon after the smoking finished, or maybe, (just like me) craving it EVEN while smoking it.



That's why I think seeing that popular actor puffing away that cigar and looking so cool makes me sick and I wonder why exactly is he doing it? Because of the script? Or because some cigarettes company paid him do it? Either way, I wonder how many youngsters don't think, "If he's doing it, then it must be fun and cool!" or something in those lines.



Do you think that the governments want smokers to stop smoking?



Here in the UK, the government increases the cost of cigarettes every year (now it’s around £4.50 for one pack of 20 cigarettes). I can only imagine how much tax they take from it. If all smokers will become non-smokers overnight, I can only wonder what will happen to the world economies.



But at the end of the day, every one of us has his own choice: we are creators of our own worlds in our novels. We do what we want in our novels. But as I said, whether we like it or not, our books will influence the readers, hopefully for the better.

[SRHowen]

Personally, I've never done something because I read it in a novel or saw it on TV. (saw an actor doing it on TV) I find the concept silly. If pop star so and so smokes, why the heck would that make me want to? I suppose the idea is that if I smoked too (or whatever) that I will be just as popular?

I doubt many kids smoke because they read about it or saw it on TV--most kids who smoke have parents who smoke, their peers smoke and make them think they have to do it as well to be "cool" or to fit in. It's an adult "right of passage" Hey look I'm 18 I can buy cigs, just like those who turn 21 who go out and buy beer for the first time--WOW I'm 21 look what I can do, means I am an adult no one is going to tell me what to do again.

My two oldest children both smoke. They were by the time they were 13. My son who is 17 can't even stand the sight of someone smoking--he has no desire to do so.

The difference? TV? Peers? Something they read that he didn't?

My eldest hates reading. Won't pick up a book if someone held a gun to his head. He and my second to the eldest do watch a lot of TV, but still does my 17 year old.

The difference is my two oldest lived with their dad (my ex) after my divorce and my 17 year old lived with me. I do not smoke, my ex does. So they learned to see it as a thing you do when you are an adult.

And on the same thread---if TV is so influential and our books on what people will do--then why don't they avoid smoking? There is so much out there about the bad in it.

I think it's a cop out to blame TV and books or games for habits and bad behavior. Gee, that's like blaming fast food for everyone being fat. No one made them do it, they chose to.

[katiemac]

I think we're also looking too much into this "influence" topic of smoking. For the most of part, I'd say those of us posting in this thread are writing for an older audience, anyway, and so the point is pretty much moot.

I do think it sends a message when 10 year old Susie Q. witnesses her favorite pop singer light up, but again that's not the only reason she's going to start smoking, if she does at all.

From what I remember of YA novels when I read them, no one in those novels smoked or drank, unless they were villains of some kind or older bullies at school. But of course I still read all sorts of things about murder, death, sex, etc. etc. If you're going to worry about political correctness at all in novels, it's going to be with younger reading material.

By the time people are reading as adults, as most people have said, it's just reality and no one's going to blink an eye. The only thing I found shocking when I was younger was the first time I came across "f---" or "c---" in print. I got over it pretty fast. But I was reading adult material by then, anyway. And sure, I swear a lot these days. But until now I didn't really pick it up until the beginning of this year (college) because I'm around more kids who curse than adults who don't.

[Fillanzea]

No one disagrees with the main thesis of the post--that smoking is idolized in novels/films?

Because, while that may have been true decades ago, I just don't see it. At all. Bad guys smoke. Hard-boiled detectives smoke. Impossibly skinny women with pinched faces smoke. But it's rare that I see anybody light a cigarette in a movie... maybe I'm just not paying attention. Almost nobody really thinks smoking is "cool" any more, right?

[reph]

If pop star so and so smokes, why the heck would that make me want to?...

I doubt many kids smoke because they read about it or saw it on TV--most kids who smoke have parents who smoke, their peers smoke and make them think they have to do it as well to be "cool" or to fit in. It's an adult "right of passage" Hey look I'm 18 I can buy cigs...
I don't think seeing one pop star smoking or reading a novel whose hero smokes will create smokers out of teenagers. It's more like a cumulative effect of many exposures. Seeing a lot of performers smoke and reading books with social settings where smoking is routine and accepted would have a greater influence. These things reflect the general societal attitude toward smoking. (Fillanzea, I agree: smoking is less common in films and novels than it used to be.)

I didn't start smoking as a rite of passage. It was self-medication for anxiety. In high school, I associated smoking with being lower-class and delinquent: it was something good kids didn't do. None of my friends smoked, as far as I know. In my last year of college, I was in a bad situation because of events in my family. Another student suggested smoking as a way to calm down. It worked at first.

[pianoman5]

Most studies suggest that the community (especially children) does form impressions of what is 'cool' from the media.

Apart from copy-cat killings and attempts at dangerous 'Don't try this at home, kids' stunts, good can come from it.

Apparently, when the 'Happy Days' character The Fonz said to Richie Cunningham:

"I got a library card; this is very cool. You know, anybody can get one of these suckers and you can meet chicks there, too."

-- applications for library registration went up by 500%.

I think it's about time the Society of Authors sponsored a line in the Simpsons or South Park:

'It's a proven fact that buying books by new authors makes you irresistible to the opposite sex."

[PattiTheWicked]

I've found that my characters who smoke do so for the same reason that real people smoke: they like to.

I do have a main character who keeps the "emergency Marlboros" in her purse, which she occasionally pops out in times of stress -- like when she finds a dead girl on the back steps. Her smoking is something that she sees as a problem, and yet acknowledges that -- at least for now -- it is part of who she is. She's flawed in a number of ways, but her smoking is one of the flaws that she has some control over.

[katiemac]

She's flawed in a number of ways, but her smoking is one of the flaws that she has some control over.

Exactly, Patti. Excellent point, even if her "control" consists of deciding whether or not she wants to quit.

[oswann]

I made my main character a drunk. I turned the idea inside out for a period of time making the equation between being alcoholic and some internal conflict. He began the book being quite depressed and depressive to read.

I realized he was drunk because he was in a state of flux, waiting, in fact, for my story to happen to him, but there wasn't any real reason to have him moping about. So I changed him into a hopeful drunk as opposed to a hopeless drunk. He bumbles through the book treading water most of the time according to his varying states of inebriation, but the affliction has purpose. The fact he drinks is a reflection of his situation. It leads ultimately to his epiphany.

Maybe this has nothing to do with the smoking question, but what the hell, I feel better.



Os.

[NeuroFizz]

"Making characters smoke...:

I can't think of a single instance in which I've ever "made" a major character do anything. It was either that character's personality trait, or it wasn't. I've never written a lily-white protag, either. Even the best of the best have been flawed, some severely. The character will let me know if he or she smokes, helps little old ladies across the street, masturbates in public restrooms, shoplifts from Walmart, attends Mass, or all the above.



This is a great reminder on character development--just like a good story takes it's own direction after the launch, the peculiarities of individual characters do as well. And sometimes the directions surprise the writer. The only danger in this is for the beginner, who may resort to stereotypes. Read this as a caution--heed Liam's advice, but avoid stereotyping in doing so. Thanks to all contributors. This is all very helpful discussion for me, hopefully for others as well.

[Mike Martyn]

I doubt many kids smoke because they read about it or saw it on TV--most kids who smoke have parents who smoke, their peers smoke and make them think they have to do it as well to be "cool" or to fit in. It's an adult "right of passage" Hey look I'm 18 I can buy cigs, just like those who turn 21 who go out and buy beer for the first time--WOW I'm 21 look what I can do, means I am an adult no one is going to tell me what to do again. end quote



Not neccesarily only teenagers. I remember smoking with friends when I was ten and we "taught" one of our seven year old friends how to smoke! This was in 1961.