Barack Obama's Closing Argument

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when i say something is a great speech, 95% of scientists agree with me.

trust me.
 

willfulone

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I cannot watch vids. But, I think (I could be wrong for it may be some other speech he was on TV for last night) I saw some of this on TV - between commercials while surfing looking for something good on. I had the following to pick from: This speech x3, America's Next Top Model, This Old House, Pushing Daisies, The 24 hour Weather Channel, and the A-Team. I watched This Old House.

I read the script. You are right, it was a well given speech - as speeches go.

Really good place to give that speech too - Ohio. Perfect place. Especially since so many people have recently been given the right to vote that could not prior. I mean, since they can now use park benches as home addresses. That was a good population to hit with this speech.

So, two thumbs up on delivery - but no one doubted his ability to deliver a well planned speech I don't think - no?

It is his ability to deliver what he promises that should cause pause. If he gets in (and I do not believe he will), let's see if he can hold up to that. I doubt he will be able to do all he says - not even half. Not by a stretch. And, we'll see how much people really care about delivery of a speech when they realize they are in no different boat than they were 2 years prior when they voted him in.

Christine
 

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you're right, no one doubts his ability to speak well.

i just think its very telling that in obama's closing remarks, he talks about working together about bridging gaps and about how america must make sacrifices to get us through the crisis.

mccain's closing remarks are of him railing over a tape of obama having dinner with a muslim.

i think it speaks volumes at the level of discourse mccain has engaged in and what his presidency would look like.
 
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MoonWriter

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mccain's closing remarks are of him railing over a tape of obama having dinner with a muslim.

i think it speaks volumes at the level of discourse mccain has engaged in and what his presidency would look like.

Those aren't Senator McCain's closing remarks. But I think he may be as shocked as many of us are that 1+1+1+1+1 = 0.
 

whistlelock

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It is his ability to deliver what he promises that should cause pause.
you know, I don't really understand this point.

I mean, that can apply to anyone and does apply to every politician.

I consider it a miracle when any of them deliver on any of their stump speechs- for two reasons. The first is I assume they are saying most of this to get elected but don't really believe in it. And, the second is the very nature of our government.

By design it is one of compromise and consession. So, it is systematically unlikely that any bill will pass through unchanged or unaltered given the sheer size and scope of our process. To even get it considered requires wheeling and dealing. And, I do not mean dealings that are illegal or corrupt but just simple trades of support (the old addage of scratching backs comes to mind).

So, really, I don't get it.
 

willfulone

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no no one doubts his ability to speak well.

i just think its very telling that in obama's closing remarks, he talks about working together about bridging gaps and about how america must make sacrifices to get us through the crisis.

mccain's closing remarks are of him railing over a tape of obama having dinner with a muslim.

i think it speaks volumes at the level of discourse mccain has engaged in and what his presidency would look like.

Did you post the McCain one? I did not see that thread. I would like to review the transcripts to see if they state what you purport. For, I do not remember such. Not saying it is not so, just that I do not remember that being the closing remark. I will have to search that link up and read it.

But, let's say it was. For discussion. That does not mean that one does not hold many skill sets to show their value as Commander. Even with lack of a bit of tact or good writers or eloquent delivery in speaking.

I would rather have one who can act in the face of decision, rather than one who can talk in prose but does not make decisions - only talks about them. That is voting with emotion, not sense (imo) if I am swayed emotionally to make a decision for charisma only.

If one votes with emotion, then they do. If one votes for they disliked a slam from one side and thus, make up their mind, they do.

If anyone is surprised and upset by political shennanigans, slurs and the like, they do not look at the situation analytically and based upon facts. That is all based in emotion. The pointing out of McCain's lacks (just as the pointing out of Obama's) is just perpetuation the same that one says they despise watching.

I do not buy into one is better for speaking ability. But, that is just the analytical gal in me.

Christine
 

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mccain hasnt made an official closing statement, but these last few days are it, and in them he is bringing up something as irrelevant and idiotic as a dinner obama went to 5 years ago.

is that really the argument you want to end on right before the election?

just more of the same with him.
 

willfulone

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you know, I don't really understand this point.

I mean, that can apply to anyone and does apply to every politician.

I consider it a miracle when any of them deliver on any of their stump speechs- for two reasons. The first is I assume they are saying most of this to get elected but don't really believe in it. And, the second is the very nature of our government.

By design it is one of compromise and consession. So, it is systematically unlikely that any bill will pass through unchanged or unaltered given the sheer size and scope of our process. To even get it considered requires wheeling and dealing. And, I do not mean dealings that are illegal or corrupt but just simple trades of support (the old addage of scratching backs comes to mind).

So, really, I don't get it.

You are right and that is my point - which was the part you left below and did not quote with the one sentence you took out to respond to.

People BELIEVE what he says for his ability to speak well. And expect it to come for they are swayed by the talk. Rather than taking into account the actuality that (regardless of it not being his fault for all the other mechanics involved) he cannot deliver on said promises. People are thinking and reacting emotionally, rather than thinking logically.

Christine
 

roncouch

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Obama is a terrific orator, no doubt about it. He appears to be exactly what many voters want/deserve. I think he is wrong for the economy and national security. His tax re-distribution plan borders on Marxism.
 

donroc

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Congress will tax and spend perhaps even more than Obama intends, and if it has a veto free majority, it will do so with no restraint. Then, pigs will indeed fly to the trough.
 

MattW

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Congress will tax and spend perhaps even more than Obama intends, and if it has a veto free majority, it will do so with no restraint. Then, pigs will indeed fly to the trough.
And with both candidates lined up to spend less responsibly, and neither beholden to deliver on any campaign promises, I'd prefer to have some impediment to the gorging that will ensue.
 

rugcat

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It wasn't so much Obama's ability to speak that was on display, it was about presenting himself and making an emotional connection to people. To me, it really worked. Now, part of that is that he has the best creative people around crafting that ad. But what I got from it was a strong feeling that he is a truly decent guy, as well as a smart politician. I'd be proud to have him representing me as the president.

People who don't care for him will not be moved. Their inner cynic will dismiss it as so much smoke and mirrors. But it's possible that a few undecideds, if there really are such things anymore, will look at it and have their doubts erased about what kind of man he is and what kind of president he'd make.

I'm beginning to think this election is a lot more important than I'd assumed at the start of the campaign.
 

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i look at this election as the choice between someone who will probably put me in an internment camp and another guy who will at least listen to other options before putting me in one.
 

willfulone

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i look at this election as the choice between someone who will probably put me in an internment camp and another guy who will at least listen to other options before putting me in one.

That is pretty extreme if you believe such. And if you feel that way, I can certainly understand your views on how you may vote or have already voted.

I want the dude with the biggest balls to stare down enemies, intimidate them and make those foes not even consider screwing with us.

I don't want someone who needs to talk his way out of a situation once the enemy is camped outside my door. It is too late then.

Christine
 

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I'm always a little surprised when the ability to speak eloquently is brushed aside as something of little significance, or maybe worse, something indicating a lack of ability to act. To me, communication is one of the most important skills for a leader of any kind, and especially a president. It was Reagan's strong suit. FDR excelled at it. And in neither case did it mean the leader was less suited for action because he reached the citizenry through words.

If Obama wins the presidency, I believe his eloquence and ability to inspire with words will be one of his most needed and most useful characteristics. If McCain wins, I fear his lesser ability in that area will be a severe detriment.

We need action and words. We as writers surely must understand that.
 

Inarticulate Babbler

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Wow. Obama's propagandist plan (right out of Mein Kampf) has snowed almost as many people as the media. He's pointed fingers at Bush (who he could not possibly run against) and McCain for the Housing Bubble--which he and Freddy Mack (His buddy that ran Fanny Mae into the ground while making millions off of it)--are the cause of, and swears he'll force banks to cease foreclosures on those who make "good faith" payments. Yet, he's touted as an economist and McCain's blamed?

Interesting how we haven't heard many reports of the War in Iraq since their was a successful surge (planned by McCain), except that Obaman outright lied and stated he said they should do that two years ago. What he proposed (and still does) is to pull out without a victory, and prove Osama Bin Laden's prophecy that "If you kill enough Americans, they'll back down". And do you really think that proving we will do exactly that will not increase their recruiting (which has been at a low), their sponsorship and their threats on American soil? Right. They murdered our guys live when we were a threat--how do you think we'll fair when we've proven we're not?
 
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AncientEagle

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Wow. Obama's propagandist plan (right out of Mein Kampf) has snowed almost as many people as the media. He's pointed fingers at Bush (who he could not possibly run against) and McCain for the Housing Bubble--which he and Freddy Mack (His buddy that ran Fanny Mae into the ground while making millions off of it)--are the cause of, and swears he'll force banks to cease foreclosures on those who make "good faith" payments. Yet, he's touted as an economist and McCain's blamed?

Interesting how we haven't heard many reports of the War in Iraq since their was a successful surge (planned by McCain), except that Obaman outright lied and stated he said they should do that two years ago. What he proposed (and still does) is to pull out without a victory, and prove Osama Bin Laden's prophecy that "If you kill enough Americans, they'll back down". And do you really think that proving we will do exactly that will not increase their recruiting (which has been at a low), their sponsorship and their threats on American soil? Right. They murdered our guys live when we were a threat--how do you think we'll fair when we've proven we're not?

(My bold.) Pretty strong stuff, that Mein Kampf bit. Have you read Mein Kampf? I have a copy sitting here in sight, English translation, and I haven't seen anything in it that connects with Obama. You're suggesting he's a Nazi? And he has a buddy named Freddy Mack who ran Fannie Mae into the ground?

This is all getting funnier by the minute.
 

odocoileus

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Obama's propagandist plan (right out of Mein Kampf)

Prove the Obama campaign has any connection whatsoever to Mein Kampf. MK is on line at various places, so you can provide some relevant quotes. I'll wait.


He's pointed fingers at Bush (who he could not possibly run against) and McCain for the Housing Bubble--

It's clear that the Republicans - policies they enacted and legislation they supported - are partly responsible for the financial crisis. Democrats are partly responsible too. Are you willing to demand that both parties take responsibility for their blunders?

which he and Freddy Mack (His buddy that ran Fanny Mae into the ground while making millions off of it)--are the cause of,

Prove that Raines is Obama's "buddy" as you put it. That is to say, demonstrate that Raines played any kind of role in the Obama campaign or had any meaningful relationship with Obama.

Also justify your decision to leave out of your analysis the role of private mortgage brokers like Countrywide, who built up their business on huge piles of bad debt even as FNMA was taking a more conservative approach to mortgage lending - an approach they later abandoned. You also left out the role of credit default swaps. Is there a good reason, or are you more interested in expressing your frustation than examining the issue fully?

Could you provide specific examples as to your claim that Obama was the cause of the current financial crisis? Some Obama supporters do attribute superpowers to their candidate. If he really was the cause of the current crisis, he really is superman.
 

Inarticulate Babbler

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(My bold.) Pretty strong stuff, that Mein Kampf bit. Have you read Mein Kampf? I have a copy sitting here in sight, English translation, and I haven't seen anything in it that connects with Obama. You're suggesting he's a Nazi? And he has a buddy named Freddy Mack who ran Fannie Mae into the ground?

This is all getting funnier by the minute.


Nazi? No. But using the same tactics.

Freddy Mack, YES. He's Obama's buddy. In fact, Obama has received extensive payoffs as a headhunter of banks that didn't make "unlikely" loans.

As far as Mein Kampf:
All propaganda must be popular and its intellectual level must be adjusted to the most limited intelligence among those it is addressed to. Consequently, the greater the mass it is intended to reach, the lower its purely intellectual level will have to be. But if, as in propaganda for sticking out a war, the aim is to influence a whole people, we must avoid excessive intellectual demands on our public, and too much caution cannot be extended in this direction. The more modest its intellectual ballast, the more exclusively it takes into consideration the emotions of the masses, the more effective it will be. And this is the best proof of the soundness or unsoundness of a propaganda campaign, and not success pleasing a few scholars or young aesthetes.
The art of propaganda lies in understanding the emotional ideas of the great masses and finding, through a psychologically correct form, the way to the attention and thence to the heart of the broad masses. The fact that our bright boys do not understand this merely shows how mentally lazy and conceited they are.
Once understood how necessary it is for propaganda in be adjusted to the broad mass, the following rule results:
It is a mistake to make propaganda many-sided, like scientific instruction, for instance.
The receptivity of the great masses is very limited, their intelligence is small, but their power of forgetting is enormous. In consequence of these facts, all effective propaganda must be limited to a very few points and must harp on these in slogans until the last member of the public understands what you want him to understand by your slogan.
As soon as you sacrifice this slogan and try to be many-sided, the effect will piddle away, for the crowd can neither digest nor retain the material offered. In this way the result is weakened and in the end entirely cancelled out.
Thus we see that propaganda must follow a simple line and correspondingly the basic tactics must be psychologically sound.
 
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Inarticulate Babbler

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It's clear that the Republicans - policies they enacted and legislation they supported - are partly responsible for the financial crisis. Democrats are partly responsible too. Are you willing to demand that both parties take responsibility for their blunders?

Really? How many times were McCain and the Republicans (Including the president) try to make Fanny Mae accountable? How many times was it blocked? And..*clears throat* By whom? Yeah, you got it, The Democrats and Obama.
 

odocoileus

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Freddy Mack, YES. He's Obama's buddy. In fact, Obama has received extensive payoffs as a headhunter of banks that didn't make "unlikely" loans.

There isn't a person called Freddy Mac. That's the nickname of the organization based on its acronym.

You do realize that Obama's time as a corporate headhunter was nearly two decades ago, right? You wrote "didn't make unlikely loans". Did you mean "banks that made unlikely loans"?

You don't have the basic facts of your argument straight.