McCain's huge gamble

[Takvah]

Alright... I am finally to the point where I am wondering what the hell McCain thinks he is going to achieve by siding with House Reps. Obviously, somebody got the Newt memo to him that said, "you need to offer something different and get that done to show leadership". Uhmmm no... all he needed to do was deliver his party.

Now I understand that there are people wondering why this is the burden of the taxpayer. I happen to also wonder why... but I also understand, if not us, who? Washington Mutual sold for $2 billion this morning... but the bank actually has $300 billion out there (not all of their loans are failures, not by a long shot)... but we can see how leveraged these entities are. The market is not going to fix this in the short term, we have to do what we must and try to get what we can on the back end.

So, it's time for McCain to step up and get the job done. Holding out for concessions is fine, but this is a time is of the essence scenario. I think that McCain will look to the market today to determine how long he holds out. If it tanks, I expect swift action. If not... who the hell knows.

I think we need to allow companies to fail. I think we need to detach these CEOs from the companies that they've destroyed. However, I also believe that a failure to ignite confidence in this country's people is a HEINOUS offense that will undoubtedly bring about more widespread panic, fear and uncertainty. This country, like it or not, consumes it's way out of situations like this... even the New Deal was about consumption albeit homes vs. televisions.

John McCain is treading a fine line... if he continues to imperil this country and brings ZERO reasoning to the table, (which makes sense to me)... I'll vote for the other guy. Why? Because he will no longer be the best man for the job. Brinksmanship is FINE, gamesmanship is NOT... and this crisis grants no quarter. This is the razor's edge. McCain seems to like a close shave... and you fellas know... sometimes you bleed. I don't like that the gun has been held to the head of this country's government... but it seems that Bernanke and Paulson waited until the last minute to come for help... and even with growth of 3.3% in the last quarter... it doesn't take an economist to smell that something out there is stinking. No credit, bad... no credit, stalls the engine... no engine... well, it's too early in the morning to think about it and I haven't had my coffee.

Meanwhile, Chevy will manufacture the Volt here! Yay! I'm now on the pseudo waiting list. Hurray for America... we're gonna manufacture something people might want to buy!

Vitamin B and a shot of Pepto baby!

[shawkins]

McCain's not showing much in the way of leadership:

At this moment, the plan that has been put forth by the administration does not enjoy the confidence of the American people,”

was the extent of his public opinion on the subject, probably because he knows that to be seen openly advocating it would likely cost him the election. But he's not really the one stalling it either. John Boehner is the House minority leader and is kinda-sorta the spokesman for the stallers, but opposition is pretty widespread.

The bailout is political poison. Bush can get away with it because he's at the end of his career, but many of the House Reps. are not. House Dems have at least some insulation from blame by virtue of the fact that the proposal came from the Bush administration. They've also (probably) got enough votes to pass it without Rep. support. However, not entirely unreasonably, the Dems don't feel like it's fair for them to be compelled to absorb the voter backlash alone. Any Republican who votes for this is going to have some serious explaining to do back home--probably even more serious than the Dems, and they're aware that Dems are in the majority.

Everybody knows it needs to be done and that it's going to hurt if not end their careers in Congress. They're just @$%^ing around trying to figure out who gets the blame.

Meanwhile, last night we had the biggest bank failure in history.

[Takvah]

Yeah that was the point, this is where McCain should be saying to his caucus and to the people of this country... we share the burdens and the blame. He's supposed to be the truthsayer. He's supposed to have the balls. I could understand Barack appeasing the people and blaming it on everybody else, but McCain is the "I'll take my poison," kind of cat. That he is allowing this game to go on, annoys me.

As I said though, we'll see what the market does today. It's a terrible gauge for this crisis, but it seems to be the only one they (all of them in Washington) recognize.

[Tirjasdyn]

Actually I applaud McCain for siding with the HR. While tax payer concerns are low on their list of why they dug in their heels...the American Taxpayers can't afford this bailout.

If a company is going to act like they have their head up their ass, we should treat them that way and let them suffocate.

We don't have the 10,000$ or more per taxpayer laying around to pay for this. We can't get loans for this. If the fed prints money for this inflation will fly through the roof.

This is a no win scenario for everyone, shore up these failed companies will only make it worse. Limiting CEO pay isn't going to cut it.

[Monkey]

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/26/1451482.aspx

During a speech on the Senate floor this morning, Sen. Chuck Schumer (D) urged President Bush to "respectfully tell Sen. McCain to get out of town. He's not helping."

Schumer also requested that Bush get the his House Republicans in line. "We need President Bush to take leadership. We need President Bush, first and foremost, to get the Republican House members to support his plan or modify it in some way to bring them on board," he said.

He added, "When you inject presidential politics into some of the most difficult negotiations under normal circumstances, it is fraught with difficulty. Before McCain made his announcement, we were making great progress. Now after his announcement, we are behind the 8 ball. We have to put things back together again."

"So this is a plea to President Bush, for the sake of America, please get your party in line. Get the House Republicans to be more constructive; get Sen. McCain to leave town and not throw fire on these flames. And maybe we can get something done."


McCain was supposed to be the guy who could reach across the aisle and get things done. Now, according to reports, he's actually joining with the hold-outs, and during the meeting between himself, Obama, Bush, Pelosi, Paulson, and others, he sat silently for 40 minutes and only offered a vague description of his position.

This was a huge gambit on his part, alright.

[whistlelock]

You know, a friend of mine that is also a political junkie thinks McCain is out to screw the Republican party and still try to win the election.

[InfinityGoddess]

You know, a friend of mine that is also a political junkie thinks McCain is out to screw the Republican party and still try to win the election.

I've heard from political analyst David Bender that he doesn't want to be labeled as a Republican. I hear their brand sucks these days.

[shawkins]

Actually I applaud McCain for siding with the HR. While tax payer concerns are low on their list of why they dug in their heels...the American Taxpayers can't afford this bailout.

No, we really can't. But the alternative is worse. It's not just the companies that are getting bailed out that will suffer--they'll be the first hit. Shortly thereafter, the credit markets will freeze up--banks won't loan each other money, because there won't be any to loan. When that happens, you can expect:

Virtually all companies will take a hit--they rely on short-term loans for their day to day operations. Lots of them will fail, and their employees will be out on the streets.
No one will be able to get a mortgage. If you can pay cash, fine, but how many people can do that?Beyond that, I don't really like to speculate. It would be bad.

If a company is going to act like they have their head up their ass, we should treat them that way and let them suffocate.

I'd be fine with lengthy prison terms for everyone involved in any way, shape or form and total confiscation of every penny they've got.

We can't get loans for this.

We probably can. If the American credit markets freeze up, world credit markets freeze up. Someone will loan us the money.

This is a no win scenario for everyone

You got that right. The question now is exactly how bad we lose. Look, when was the last time George Bush and Barney Frank were on the same side of an issue? If they agree that the alternative is worse, shouldn't we at least consider the possibility that it is?

[Tirjasdyn]

Shawkins, the same thing could happen even if we do this. I really don't believe that handing 700 bil to anyone will solve it as we have no way to insure it will be used correctly.

[Takvah]

You buy goods from your grocer... assuming you have the means.

Your grocer uses credit to buy his goods from the wholesaler.

The wholesaler uses credit to buy his goods from the manufacturer.

The manufacturer uses credit to get the materials to create the goods.

Rinse and repeat applying this to industries across the board. It doesn't matter what dries up, the lowest end of the link or the highest, the results are the same. Unemployment is going to rise... if there is no credit to engage in commerce... it will skyrocket. There will be many breaks in the chain that has been supporting this country. Businesses not being able to utilize credit in the course of business is like taking water from a plant.

Sure, we can choose to bite the bullet now, but I don't think any of us here (and most surely not the American people) has the belly for what will result.

[maestrowork]

IMHO, it's the taxpayers' interest to do something to bail out -- it's not to save these executives' jobs (in fact, I favor firing every single one of them without the golden parachute packages), but to save everything. That affects all of us. Once that card falls, the whole house would tumble -- everything of our capitalistic society is tied to the financials, and the impact would be tremendous -- Great Depression? You bet. We can't let these companies fail -- it's not about fairness, and it's all about them against us. We're all in this now, no matter whose fault it was.

On the other hand, I don't want a bailout package without any restrictions, rules, and conditions. It's not free money. The taxpayers should have a say on how that money is going to be spent, and how it's going to affect them, and what they will get in return. No more golden parachutes for one thing. You're now on government payroll. Suck it up, CEOs.

[Monkey]

Geesh, Takvah. Now I have to agree with you.

What's this world coming to?


:D

[Takvah]

Geesh, Takvah. Now I have to agree with you.

What's this world coming to?


:D

Number 2 on the "Signs of the Apocalypse" checklist.

[maestrowork]

Let's sing Cumbaya first.

[Takvah]

One thing that McCain's actions have done is expose the Dems unwillingness to lead. Look, they said they wanted to lead... but the fear of God is on them now. Why? Well, because they don't want the stigma of the biggest tax hit in the history of the country being set at their feet. Sorry... if you want to lead, you have to sometimes take the hit. They went in saying, "We're going to clean up this mess," well... what happened?

Pelosi wants 100 Republican votes, but she doesn't need them... and if the Bush thing was sticking so well, then they could show Bush approving their legislation OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

There are no winners in this... but damn, give em' a hand for trying to make each other look like the bigger loser.

[maestrowork]

I have to agree -- the Democrats are not leading. And the Republicans are not playing ball either.

Good, what else have we got?

[C.bronco]

I hope he gets his stuff together. On his environmental and fossil fuel stance alone, he's got me.