Obama's verbal slip fuels his critics - *Rant*

[Robert Toy]

No big secret, I am not an Obama fan, but this is exactly how shit rumors get started.

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/07/obama-verbal-slip-fuels-his-critics/
(also contains a link to viedo, now on YouTube)

The exchange in question…

“Mr. Obama noted that when Republican vice presidential nominee Gov. Sarah Palin "was forced" to talk about her pregnant 17-year-old daughter, he issued a forceful statement to reporters that the line of inquiry was "off limits." But he said the McCain campaign tried to tie him to "liberal blogs that support Obama" and are "attacking Governor Palin."

"Let's not play games," he said. "What I was suggesting -- you're absolutely right that John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith. And you're absolutely right that that has not come."

Mr. Stephanopoulos interrupted with, "Christian faith."

"My Christian faith," Mr. Obama said quickly. "Well, what I'm saying is that he hasn't suggested that I'm a Muslim. And I think that his campaign's upper echelons have not, either. What I think is fair to say is that, coming out of the Republican camp, there have been efforts to suggest that perhaps I'm not who I say I am when it comes to my faith -- something which I find deeply offensive, and that has been going on for a pretty long time."

IMHO, Obama got suckered into making the “My Christian faith” by Stephanopoulos's interruption.

Obama’s original statement regarding McCain to me is clear, what he (Obama) is saying that McCain never made comments about Obama being a Muslim.

With Democratic friends like that, who needs Republican attack dogs?

This is an example of really down in the gutter bull-shit.

I hope that before anyone launches into some stupid..."see I told you he was a Muslim." bull shit attack, they check the facts first.

*end of rant, living in hope and dying in despair*

I still don’t like Obama, but fair is fair, and this damn sure isn’t.

[Don]

But, but, but...

He said it, right there! John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith. See, there it is in black and white. He finally let his deepest, darkest secret out in a moment of confusion, and you wanna give him a pass? What kinda Republican are you, anyway?


:D

[Shadow_Ferret]

Not that I care, but is he Muslim or isn't he? Now I'm more confused then ever.

[Robert Toy]

But, but, but...

He said it, right there! John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith. See, there it is in black and white. He finally let his deepest, darkest secret out in a moment of confusion, and you wanna give him a pass? What kinda Republican are you, anyway?


:D
Here is a link - Video...proof

Re: Obama Admits Muslim Faith
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQqIpdBOg6I

How anyone who watches this and can twist it around is....

[Don]

Here is a link - Video...proof

Re: Obama Admits Muslim Faith
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQqIpdBOg6I

How anyone who watches this and can twist it around is....
Aww, come on. Why is this any harder to believe than that Lee Atwater and Karl Rove created the political attack ad? :rolleyes:

[Williebee]

Lee Atwater and Karl Rove created the political attack ad

Yeah, Don, I caught your smiley, so I know you don't think so, but I must have missed something. Somebody actually thinks that? Did they skip High School history classes?

And, yeah, this is going to rekindle the "He's a Muslim." rant. Me, I'm upset because he's tall, and that makes him a 'Height-ist". mumblegrumblemumblldldleld;a

[AncientEagle]

I hope that before anyone launches into some stupid..."see I told you he was a Muslim." bull shit attack, they check the facts first.

Too late. The stupid comments were whipping around the Internet in minutes.

[Christine N.]

And even if he is...WHO CARES????

Is this the '60's again, where it was such a shock America would elect a...OMG, A CATHOLIC! The world's goin' to hell in a handbasket, right?? Oh, wait, no, it didn't. He's considered one of the best presidents ever.

The fearmongering, for lack of a better word, about what Obama's faith is, whatever it is, is ridiculous. Yes, many terrorists are Muslim. Radical Muslim. Many, MANY other Muslims have decried those actions, saying they went agains everything the religion stood for, misinterpreted and used to justify radical actions.

Sound familiar? The same arguments radical Christians make for blowing up abortion clinics, or whatever ridiculous, harmful actions people take in the name of God.

We have separation of church and state. What church he attends - or doesn't - should NOT be an issue. Don't let fear cloud things. Unless he's standing on a platform of blowing things up, don't worry about it.

Before you get started on Palin's Evangelical roots - SHE brings that to the table with her anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage stance. So she's brought her religion into her politics. Different, because I don't see Obama doing that.

[whistlelock]

I saw that slip happen, and I thought- well, there's gonna be a whole new slew of email/whisper campaigns.

[Shadow_Ferret]

I saw that slip happen, and I thought- well, there's gonna be a whole new slew of email/whisper campaigns.
Email/whisper campaigns? I wouldnt' be surprised if it showed up in GOP sponsored commercials.

*snip*

"my Muslim faith"

With the tagline, "Can you trust a man who doesn't even seem truthful about his faith?"

[Joe270]

John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith. And you're absolutely right that that has not come."

Mr. Stephanopoulos interrupted with, "Christian faith."

"My Christian faith," Mr. Obama said quickly.

With Democratic friends like that, who needs Republican attack dogs?


I see this differently than you, Robert. The interviewer recognized the misstatement (or Freudian slip) from Obama, and instantly pointed it out so Obama could correct it straight away.

For me, that shows a bias (and GS is the most biased 'reporter' out there, Clinton roots and all that) for Obama in the media. If McCain had made a similar blunder, they'd be all over it like stink on excrement.

Or, if the interviewer was right-wing (not a chance with network news) the attack would have been on right there.

So GS helped mitigate this little dust-up right out the gate. How bad would it have been if GS had completely missed the gaffe and no instant correction made? It would be lots worse, certainly. There is absolutely no chance that the NObama people would have missed it.

Obama made the gaffe, not the interviewer. I don't think it's really fair to blame GS (whom I have absolutely no use for, btw) for it.

[robeiae]

I don't care what Obama's religion is, myself. And I don't much care that he slipped up (soemthing he does far more often than we are led to believe). He talks all the time--like any candidate--and he'll flub it up now and again--like any candidate.

[MarkEsq]

I see this differently than you, Robert. The interviewer recognized the misstatement (or Freudian slip) from Obama, and instantly pointed it out so Obama could correct it straight away.

For me, that shows a bias (and GS is the most biased 'reporter' out there, Clinton roots and all that) for Obama in the media. If McCain had made a similar blunder, they'd be all over it like stink on excrement.


I think it's inconsistent to claim an interviewer is biased and then berate him for correcting an interviewee's slip of the tongue. Just because you would rather he hadn't, doesn't make it wrong. A journalist, in theory, is supposed to be objective and make sure facts and the truth are presented. If the truth is that BO is a Christian, he was right to point out the slip. And whether or not he would have pointed out a slip by a Republican is pure speculation.

[rugcat]

And even if he is...WHO CARES????Enough people to cost him an election.

[kuwisdelu]

I see this differently than you, Robert. The interviewer recognized the misstatement (or Freudian slip) from Obama, and instantly pointed it out so Obama could correct it straight away.

For me, that shows a bias (and GS is the most biased 'reporter' out there, Clinton roots and all that) for Obama in the media. If McCain had made a similar blunder, they'd be all over it like stink on excrement.

Or, if the interviewer was right-wing (not a chance with network news) the attack would have been on right there.

So GS helped mitigate this little dust-up right out the gate. How bad would it have been if GS had completely missed the gaffe and no instant correction made? It would be lots worse, certainly. There is absolutely no chance that the NObama people would have missed it.

Obama made the gaffe, not the interviewer. I don't think it's really fair to blame GS (whom I have absolutely no use for, btw) for it.

I think you made the same mistake Stephanopapopaloose did. I think (and it sounds like Mr. Toy does, too) that Obama meant his "alleged Muslim faith" (but left out the alleged). GS thought he'd made a mistake and corrected him, which is where Mr. Toy is thinking, instead, that GS knew what Obama meant, but purposely inserted the "Christian faith" to stir up confusion over what Obama originally meant. Methinks both just got confused with their words, and it's no one's "fault."

[Christine N.]

Enough people to cost him an election.


Didn't matter to those that elected JFK, so...maybe not.

[Shadow_Ferret]

Didn't matter to those that elected JFK, so...maybe not.
Hmm. Catholic. Muslim. Yeah, I can see how the country as a whole would view those as pretty similar and not let it influence their decision.

We're just now, in the 21st Century, willing to even contemplate electing a black man or a woman. You don't think the Muslim aspect would be enough to make people balk?

[Robert Toy]

I’m not really big on conspiracy theories and I am not suggesting that in this case.

However, replay the video link below, and watch and listen to GS…he continually interrupts Obama and states that McCain / McCain did not say that.

Maybe it’s my ears?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQqIpdBOg6I

[James81]

Never underestimate a slip of the tongue. Especially with a politician. ;)

[InfinityGoddess]

We're just now, in the 21st Century, willing to even contemplate electing a black man or a woman. You don't think the Muslim aspect would be enough to make people balk?

The Muslim aspect wouldn't be such a problem if we didn't have people in media hate-mongering against them. Not all Muslims are terrorists.

And people wonder why I don't watch FOX News. Ugh.

[Robert Toy]

Can I say that Fox is not the sole purveyor of fear mongering without someone replying with “yeah but they are the worst”?

Maybe?

[Shadow_Ferret]

The Muslim aspect wouldn't be such a problem if we didn't have people in media hate-mongering against them. Not all Muslims are terrorists.

And people wonder why I don't watch FOX News. Ugh.
Has NOTHING to do with Fox news. Right after 9/11 there was a firestorm from every corner of the United States spewing hatred against Muslims. The website I was on at the time, I was constantly having to defend Muslims against generic, ignorant, uninformed attacks.

I think it's an attitude that is still pervasive throughout America, but just hidden and toned down now.

Very few seem able to distinguish between radical Islamic fundamentalists and everyday people who happen to worship in the Muslim faith.

[InfinityGoddess]

Has NOTHING to do with Fox news. Right after 9/11 there was a firestorm from every corner of the United States spewing hatred against Muslims. The website I was on at the time, I was constantly having to defend Muslims against generic, ignorant, uninformed attacks.


Oh, believe me, I know FOX wasn't the sole problem in the beginning with regards to anti-Muslim bigotry, and in some respects they still aren't today, but they are indeed still a big factor.

The fact that some of our politicians also display this kind of bigotry is equally disgusting.

I remember that Glenn Beck, the charmer that's on CNN Headline, questioned Keith Ellison, our first Muslim congresscritter on his love of America. Just...ugh, again.

[robeiae]

...everyday people who happen to worship in the Muslim faith.
Like Obama?

:ROFL:

I kill myself.

[Christine N.]

Hmm. Catholic. Muslim. Yeah, I can see how the country as a whole would view those as pretty similar and not let it influence their decision.

We're just now, in the 21st Century, willing to even contemplate electing a black man or a woman. You don't think the Muslim aspect would be enough to make people balk?


Uh, yanno what Shadow? At the time, it was a HUGE DEAL. Huge. Protestants everywhere feared for their country. People just couldn't believe a Catholic was elected President. Kind of like what happened 500 years ago in England (LOL).

Just like this seems to be a huge deal. for whatever reason. I can't behind blind ignorance, no matter what faith it is.

I'm more afraid of Sarah Palin's Evangelical church than I am of a random person who MIGHT be Muslim. Muslims aren't to be feared. Radical Muslims, maybe, just like Radical Christians or Radical Druids. I fear Radical Anybody.

[Shadow_Ferret]

Uh, yanno what Shadow? At the time, it was a HUGE DEAL. Huge. Protestants everywhere feared for their country. People just couldn't believe a Catholic was elected President. Kind of like what happened 500 years ago in England (LOL).

I do understand. However, despite those Protestant fears, I still don't think there was as much fearmongering, prejudice, and hatred against Catholics then as there is against Muslims lately.

And that's because Catholics were still generally WHITE.

Muslims bring in an additional prejudice Catholics didn't have to deal with.

[Robert Toy]

I do understand. However, despite those Protestant fears, I still don't think there was as much fearmongering, prejudice, and hatred against Catholics then as there is against Muslims lately.

And that's because Catholics were still generally WHITE.

Muslims bring in an additional prejudice Catholics didn't have to deal with.
Unfortunately I have to agree.

[Christine N.]

Granted, the world is different now. I get that. Just seems we're more ignorant than less, then, huh. Sorry, SF, my irritation isn't really directed at you - just the world in general.

[Beach Bunny]

I find the discussion in the thread very interesting. What Obama was saying is that the subject of Palin's daughter is off limits just as McCain has made the subject of Obama's faith off limits. And here you all are in this thread talking about Obama's faith. hmmmmm Maybe I missed something.

[johnnysannie]

I do understand. However, despite those Protestant fears, I still don't think there was as much fearmongering, prejudice, and hatred against Catholics then as there is against Muslims lately.

And that's because Catholics were still generally WHITE.

Muslims bring in an additional prejudice Catholics didn't have to deal with.


If you were Catholic living in a predoiminatly white Protestant area (like I do) you might have a different point of view. Attacks against Catholic are a very close second behind Muslims in these parts.

And at the JFK was elected as first Catholic president of the US, anti-Catholic sentiment was even stronger in some places.

[Robert Toy]

I find the discussion in the thread very interesting. What Obama was saying is that the subject of Palin's daughter is off limits just as McCain has made the subject of Obama's faith off limits. And here you all are in this thread talking about Obama's faith. hmmmmm Maybe I missed something.
Déjà Moo

[InfinityGoddess]

I do understand. However, despite those Protestant fears, I still don't think there was as much fearmongering, prejudice, and hatred against Catholics then as there is against Muslims lately.

And that's because Catholics were still generally WHITE.

Muslims bring in an additional prejudice Catholics didn't have to deal with.

My grandparents, all Protestant, were anti-Catholic. Worst of the bigots is my paternal grandmother, and even my parents have made the comments that they consider Catholics to be idolatrous and not "real" Christians.

And they are white. Anti-Catholic bigotry is live and well.

[Shadow_Ferret]

My grandparents, all Protestant, were anti-Catholic. Worst of the bigots is my paternal grandmother, and even my parents have made the comments that they consider Catholics to be idolatrous and not "real" Christians.

And they are white. Anti-Catholic bigotry is live and well.
Oh, I've known many fundamentalists who still feel this way, too.

So tell me, if you think this attitude among these Protestants still is so prevalent, what do you think they will do when confronted by the choice of voting for a "possible" Muslim?

Strikes me the more we discuss this -- we already had the race thread -- that Obama is fighting an uphill battle, even in this day and age.

[Robert Toy]

"possible" Black Muslim

[InfinityGoddess]

Oh, I've known many fundamentalists who still feel this way, too.

So tell me, if you think this attitude among these Protestants still is so prevalent, what do you think they will do when confronted by the choice of voting for a "possible" Muslim?

Strikes me the more we discuss this -- we already had the race thread -- that Obama is fighting an uphill battle, even in this day and age.


Those people wouldn't have voted for Obama anyways. However, I do hope that there are far more people out there who are more open to him and what he represents.

[Christine N.]

The point being, DESPITE those feelings, JFK was elected. That was my original point, anyway. And it was a huge deal.

So it wouldn't matter if Obama was Muslim, Christian, or little Eskimo, he could still be elected if enough people put their faith aside and vote for a person and not a religion.

[Robert Toy]

The point being, DESPITE those feelings, JFK was elected. That was my original point, anyway. And it was a huge deal.

So it wouldn't matter if Obama was Muslim, Christian, or little Eskimo, he could still be elected if enough people put their faith aside and vote for a person and not a religion.
petite esquimau noir s'il vous plait

[Shadow_Ferret]

So it wouldn't matter if Obama was Muslim, Christian, or little Eskimo, he could still be elected if enough people put their faith aside and vote for a person and not a religion.
Inuit.

And my point is, that the more we talk about this, the more I think about just how bigoted and racist this country still seems to be. And the more I think that, the more depressed I get.

Not that I'm necessarily an Obama supporter, but if he loses, I want it to be for the issues, his positions, not for the fact that he might be the wrong religion, the wrong color, and has big ears.

[MarkEsq]

and has big ears.

No you didn't!!

And from a ferret, no less...

[Shadow_Ferret]

I needed a third negative. Sorry. :(

[Don Allen]

I watched yesterday, and when you see the interview all the way through you understand that their was banter going on back and forth before Obama said McCain never said anything about my Muslim faith, as a way of clarifying that he wasn't a Muslim. However, in snippets and soundbites it can be drastically taken out of context.
In a way Georgie boy set the tone because he wouldn't let Obama finish his thought on a few occassions which was to say that even if McCain himself wasn't responsible, the right wing of the republican party was responsible, just like the left wing of the democrats had starte the Palin smear without Obama's permission.

[InfinityGoddess]

I watched yesterday, and when you see the interview all the way through you understand that their was banter going on back and forth before Obama said McCain never said anything about my Muslim faith, as a way of clarifying that he wasn't a Muslim. However, in snippets and soundbites it can be drastically taken out of context.
In a way Georgie boy set the tone because he wouldn't let Obama finish his thought on a few occassions which was to say that even if McCain himself wasn't responsible, the right wing of the republican party was responsible, just like the left wing of the democrats had starte the Palin smear without Obama's permission.


GS annoys me and you've just nailed it on the head why I don't like him. What a tool.

And get this: My parents think I should like him because he worked for Bill Clinton. Well, I'm not fond of Clinton, either! Honestly...

[Snowstorm]

I'm more afraid of Sarah Palin's Evangelical church than I am of a random person who MIGHT be Muslim. Muslims aren't to be feared. Radical Muslims, maybe, just like Radical Christians or Radical Druids. I fear Radical Anybody.

Exactly how I feel. I believe most Muslims are decent people. Any radical <insert religious organization> irritates and scares me.

[Robert Toy]

I watched yesterday, and when you see the interview all the way through you understand that their was banter going on back and forth before Obama said McCain never said anything about my Muslim faith, as a way of clarifying that he wasn't a Muslim. However, in snippets and soundbites it can be drastically taken out of context.
In a way Georgie boy set the tone because he wouldn't let Obama finish his thought on a few occassions which was to say that even if McCain himself wasn't responsible, the right wing of the republican party was responsible, just like the left wing of the democrats had starte the Palin smear without Obama's permission.
Huh, how so?

[Robert Toy]

Exactly how I feel. I believe most Muslims are decent people. Any radical <insert religious organization> irritates and scares me.
I believe most Muslims people are decent people. Any radical <insert religious organization> irritates and scares me.

[Shadow_Ferret]

I don't know. I'm looking up Evangelical and honestly, I can't find anywhere that it's defined as either radical or scary. What am I missing?

[Don Allen]

I find the discussion in the thread very interesting. What Obama was saying is that the subject of Palin's daughter is off limits just as McCain has made the subject of Obama's faith off limits. And here you all are in this thread talking about Obama's faith. hmmmmm Maybe I missed something.



Here's the thing Bunny, (love that name) The Karl Rove style of politics is very similar to the idea floated in that movie "Wag the Dog" The premise.... "If it's on T.V., it must be true" The people on this Web site are far and away heads ands heels above the average american in terms of current events, and especially political events, repubs or dems, it dosen't matter, we know and can seperate the bullshit from the truth, but an awful lot of the american electorate lives in a state of polarized exsistence. Not that their stupid, just conditioned to believe what those around them believe.
If you can send a subliminal or implied message enough times that Obama is a muslim, hence terrorist, hence sent by alQuaida to destroy America, without actually saying it,,, the point gets made and people pick up on the message, that's what Obama was trying to say on Sunday Morning....

[Don Allen]

R.T. I think Obama wanted to be done with the line of questioning, answering as he did and GS came back to it a couple of more times, thats all...

[Christine N.]

I don't know. I'm looking up Evangelical and honestly, I can't find anywhere that it's defined as either radical or scary. What am I missing?

By itself, it's not, neither is Muslim, or Jew, or anything else. Radicals are those on the extreme edge. Radical Muslims believe in Jihad, for example. Radical Christians/Evangelicals/whatever are usually the farthest to the right -mostly they want everyone to be like them and limit everyone's freedom. Gays are bad, abortion shouldn't be allowed, Creationism is more truthful than science, etc.

Usually they're kind of like pitbulls in their beliefs too, pretty rabid and fairly closeminded. There are plenty of non-extremist Evangelicals. The religion itself isn't radical, but, like most, they have their extremist elements. Radical Christians are usually the ones advocating the killing of abortion preforming doctors and blowing up of clinics. NOT all of them, but it's usually tied to some form of radical Christian group.

I was using Sarah Palin's chuch as an example because the reports are that the organization touts things like "helping people overcome homosexuality".

You see where I'm going with this. Extremists in any form are scary.

[Robert Toy]

R.T. I think Obama wanted to be done with the line of questioning, answering as he did and GS came back to it a couple of more times, thats all...
Agreed

[Shadow_Ferret]

Gays are bad, abortion shouldn't be allowed, Creationism is more truthful than science, etc.

I don't think these regarded as a radical viewpoints. I think this is mainstream. (But to be fair, they don't believe "gays are bad" they believe homosexuality is a sin, there is a difference.)

And the information I looked at made it sound like Fundamentalists were the more conservative and Evangelical was more liberal.

[Don Allen]

One of the reasons I've shyed away from the republican party these last few years is that quite frankly, I never remember them being so dam mean. Hear me out.. I loved Reagan, good or bad, I always felt that he had everyones, liberals and conservatives best interest at heart and more importantly did what was good for the country. Somehow the conservative establishment has adopted this Do as I say, or be damned attitude... And for me, it's a total turnoff. If a democratic V.P would have had a pregnant teenager all hell would have broken loose about the morals going to hell if a dem gets elected, but when its a repub. its just family and things happen. Yet, when it happened to Jamie Spears it was the parents who were not there to watch their child and called pinheads by B.O'r. Do as I say, not as I do..... shit's got to stop, cause that ain't what the republican party used to be.....IMO

[Christine N.]

Yeah, but anytime someone brings their religion into their politics, it always winds up being a bad mix.

I have to give Obama props for his interview the other day. He acknowledged his Christian faith (yes, he said Christian) but also acknowledged that it wasn't for him or government to decide things like abortion based on his faith. If more people had that idea, maybe I wouldn't find the Republican party so irritating.

No, not just 'homosexuality is a sin', but 'we can CURE homosexuality'. There's a difference,just like there's a difference between 'I think homosexuality is a sin' and 'let's not let them get married'. If you take religion out of the debate, you have nothing left to base an argument on. Keep church and state separate and you'll be all right.

[InfinityGoddess]

I have to give Obama props for his interview the other day. He acknowledged his Christian faith (yes, he said Christian) but also acknowledged that it wasn't for him or government to decide things like abortion based on his faith. If more people had that idea, maybe I wouldn't find the Republican party so irritating.


I would also like to note that some of the same people who want to restrict/ban abortion are also wanting to overturn Griswold vs. Connecticut so they can ban all forms of birth control. You know, to keep the wimmins in their place and all.

I wish more people had the idea that part of being free is being free to choose for yourself how you think you should live your own life.

[Christine N.]

Yeah, that's frankly terrifying. I can't believe any Supreme Court would overturn it, ever, without open revolt on their hands. But I guess crazier things have happened.

[robeiae]

Who, exactly, wants to overturn Griswold v. Connecticut?

[cethklein]

Yeah, but anytime someone brings their religion into their politics, it always winds up being a bad mix.


Isn't it amazing? The founding fathers figured this out too over two centuries ago. Yet some people still don't get it.

Biden gave a terrific interview over the weekend. He was asked his stance on abortion. He said he opposes it personally but that he doesn't feel his views should be forced on others. I agree. If you're a really good Christian, you don't need the government to tell you not to get an abortion or marry someone of the same sex. You won't do it anyway. People who want the government to regulate these things obviously are afraid they can't keep themselves from sinning on their own.

sorry but tat's my view and it always ha been. People need to be responsible for their own actions instead of diverting attention to those of others.

[Joe270]

Who, exactly, wants to overturn Griswold v. Connecticut?

...and we're waiting...waiting...

[astonwest]

If you're a really good Christian, you don't need the government to tell you not to get an abortion or marry someone of the same sex. You won't do it anyway. People who want the government to regulate these things obviously are afraid they can't keep themselves from sinning on their own.Actually, I'm from a faith which would probably be what many on this thread consider a "radical" religion for their beliefs, and this quoted above is one of the things I've never really understood about the way people of our faith behave. Establishing laws which restrict sin doesn't do anything but make more people want to commit them, or make people who commit them more firmly entrenched in their sin. Fixing the person's belief structure would do more...

Who knows?

[rugcat]

Who, exactly, wants to overturn Griswold v. Connecticut?Griswold? Wasn't the the family in the National Lampoon movies? Were they from Connecticut?

[robeiae]

Griswold? Wasn't the the family in the National Lampoon movies? Were they from Connecticut?
You know, that's just weird...but I think they were from Chicago, no?

[Joe270]

You know, that's just weird...but I think they were from Chicago, no?


I think so. They were on the game show 'Pig in a Poke'. Hmmm. Chicago, Illinois, Buying into something unknown? Prophetic?

[Christine N.]

Off the top of my head I can't recall exactly; I've been getting emails from women's groups. I don't think it would ever, ever come to that. Just some groupt that believes that, which makes me think they're just nuts. Right now the fight is if it's all right for doctors to refuse to prescribe contraceptives based on their own beliefs.

My problem with that is...where does it stop? If a doc can refuse to give contraceptives because he doesn't belief in preventing pregnancy (say he's a strict Catholic), can he also refuse to treat AIDS patients or gay patients (not that they're exclusive, but you know what I mean) or black patients?

It's a slippery slope we don't need to embark on, IMO.

[robeiae]

Off the top of my head I can't recall exactly; I've been getting emails from women's groups. I don't think it would ever, ever come to that. Just some groupt that believes that, which makes me think they're just nuts. Right now the fight is if it's all right for doctors to refuse to prescribe contraceptives based on their own beliefs.

My problem with that is...where does it stop? If a doc can refuse to give contraceptives because he doesn't belief in preventing pregnancy (say he's a strict Catholic), can he also refuse to treat AIDS patients or gay patients (not that they're exclusive, but you know what I mean) or black patients?

It's a slippery slope we don't need to embark on, IMO.If it's some fringe group, I'm not sure why it's significant, Christine. It certainly wouldn't have much of a place in a discussion on the candidates, imo.

There are plenty of groups out there lobbying wanting all sorts of things overturned and changed.

As an example, I want the the 16th and 17th Amendments repealed, like you wouldn't believe. But it doesn't follow that whomever I vote for will work towards that end.

So, if there isn't some specific group that overlaps this discussion, my opinion is that such unsupported declarations should be avoided. :)

[InfinityGoddess]

Who, exactly, wants to overturn Griswold v. Connecticut?

The same ole Dobson/Robertson crowd. You know, the same ones that want Roe vs. Wade overturned.

[rugcat]

As an example, I want the the 16th and 17th Amendments repealed, like you wouldn't believe. The 16th I understand. The 17th? I had to look it up. Doesn't seem like something that could excite passions. You are one weird dude, Rob.

[Don]

The 16th I understand. The 17th? I had to look it up. Doesn't seem like something that could excite passions. You are one weird dude, Rob.
The XVII took away the voice of the States in the Federal Government, with Senators becoming beauty contestants like the Reps already were.

[Alpha Echo]

And even if he is...WHO CARES????

Is this the '60's again, where it was such a shock America would elect a...OMG, A CATHOLIC! The world's goin' to hell in a handbasket, right?? Oh, wait, no, it didn't. He's considered one of the best presidents ever.

The fearmongering, for lack of a better word, about what Obama's faith is, whatever it is, is ridiculous. Yes, many terrorists are Muslim. Radical Muslim. Many, MANY other Muslims have decried those actions, saying they went agains everything the religion stood for, misinterpreted and used to justify radical actions.

Sound familiar? The same arguments radical Christians make for blowing up abortion clinics, or whatever ridiculous, harmful actions people take in the name of God.

We have separation of church and state. What church he attends - or doesn't - should NOT be an issue. Don't let fear cloud things. Unless he's standing on a platform of blowing things up, don't worry about it.

Before you get started on Palin's Evangelical roots - SHE brings that to the table with her anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage stance. So she's brought her religion into her politics. Different, because I don't see Obama doing that.

I think it is a big deal...not that I'm thinking he IS a Muslim, and you're right that there are a lot of Muslims who are peace loving and very kind and not terrorists. But what better way for the Muslim Terrorists to get to the heart of America than to put someone in our public office?

I'm just saying.

And how can someone who is Evangelical, who's Evangelical beliefs affect his or her moral beliefs NOT bring that to the table? It's the basis for her pro-life, anti-gay marriage stance.

You can't seperate church and state if the church is the basis for your morals and beliefs.

[robeiae]

The same ole Dobson/Robertson crowd. You know, the same ones that want Roe vs. Wade overturned.
No, I don't know. Which is why I asked. Do you have some evidence in that regard?

And again, I don't see the relevance, at all.

[Christine N.]

But what better way for the Muslim Terrorists to get to the heart of America than to put someone in our public office?

I'm just saying.


Watched The Manchurian Candidate recently, have we? :D

Robiae, I know it's fringe, which is why I said it's not really in danger of actually happening. There would be open war if it did. I can almost guarantee that. It's the thought that someone thinks it's really a good idea is what's kind of scary.

I'm not worried about it at the moment. The thing about the doctors, though, IS a topic that has been given serious consideration of late. That is something that has a better chance of happening. Not that my doctor would refuse me - she's awesome - there are others that might if given the opportunity.

[donroc]

And we do have Catholics at SCOTUS.