My Problem (Several problems with writing technique)

[DwayneA]

Well actually, I have a lot of problems.

Okay, every aspect in writing is a problem for me. I've been reading novels and books over the past year, yet I'm still stumped as to how to write books! Every aspect!

Just today, I got a new word processor called "New Novelist 2.0". Yet I'm so confused as to how to describe a setting, characters, objects, etc. How do I describe how a setting or a character smells? That's rediculous!

I don't know how to come up with great scenes, I can't write great dialogue, I can't create truly memorable characters (I even struggle with creating my hero characters in Diablo II!), I don't know anything about flaws and virtues or how to define them in action and dialogue, I can't bring a scene to life...in other words: I can't do anything!

Sheesh, everybody can write a book, but I can't. I don't get it. I know it has nothing to do with the fact that I have Asperger's, some guy I know wrote a book called "The Stonking Steps", and another kid was only in his teens when he wrote a book about Aspergers! In his teens! Yet, I turn 26 this month, and I can't do that!

Looking back on the three books I have read, I know now that they are all terrible. There's no characterization, poor dialogue, and often things don't even make sense. Often, I feel like I'm destined to go down in history as the worst author of all time.

Often I feel like I can't do anything right. Several times, dad has called me a "brainless dope", he actually agreed when my younger brother called me a "handicapped kid", and he even called me f***ing stupid! Many times he even said I have no common sense and he also wonders if I leave my brain in bed! I'm not kidding, this stuff actually happened to me!

Everyone around me has found success, my former classmates (I never graduated), my family, everyone in short! I feel like I'll never truly find success and define myself as a human being.

Even despite taking a creative writing course from Stratford and getting good marks, I'm still as stumped as ever when it comes to writing stories. English is the only language I understand, but I can't even write it! Pathetic ain't it?

I don't get it. What is everybody in the writing industry doing right that I'm doing wrong? What's wrong with me?

[alleycat]

Well, first, take things step by step. For most people learning to write is like any other complex task; at first it's all confusing and there seem to be so much to learn and you don't even know where to begin, etc. Everything get tangled up.

Here's my first suggestion. Forget about any kind of enhanced writing software and concentrate on the basics. And rather than starting right away into writing a novel, try writing a few shorter pieces to begin with. Write a short story of a few thousand words.

[vrabinec]

Well I don't get it. What is everybody in the writing industry doing right that I'm doing wrong?

They're writing, then editing, then editing, then editing, then editing. If you don't know the right word, then have a Thesaurus handy. If you're not sure of a word's meaning, then have a dictionary handy. Eventually, you'll hammer out a story. Then you'll throw it away and start on the real story....etc...

Education helps, but work will get you a hell of a lot farther.

[Telstar]

Ask yourself if your stories are worth to be told. If the answer is yes, choose one, your favourite and start revising it.

Or better, start reading a dozen well written book in your genre and then take your manuscript again. If in the meanwhile you also read some of the guides you have bought, that wont hurt.

[regdog]

Another suggestion forget the computer for writing for awhile. Use the old pen and notebook. Sometimes it's easier to just sit and write thoughts ideas or characters in a notebook when an idea comes to mind and then go back and expand on the idea as you reread your original idea.

[DwayneA]

they haven't arrived yet

[JoNightshade]

Sheesh, everybody can write a book, but I can't.

Dwayne, where exactly did you get the idea that everyone can write a book?

Has your dad written a book? Did your brother write a book? I guarantee if they did, it would be every bit as awful as you seem to think yours is.

The fact that you have FINISHED a book, no matter how awful, is an achievement in itself, and you should be proud that you had the guts and perseverance to make it that far.

Even the most successful authors spend years and years perfecting the craft. It's a lifelong pursuit, not a get-rich-quick scheme.

That said, not everyone who writes a book will get published. Not everyone who writes a book will write a "good" book. The question you have to ask yourself is, do you like writing? If you like to do it, then do it, whether you get published or not. If it's not fun for you, if it's not satisfying, if it's not rewarding - if you keep beating yourself up about it - maybe writing isn't for you.

But above all, do not let writing be the measure of success in your life. I've been writing seriously for 10 years (I also am 26) and I still haven't published a novel. I feel like I'm getting close, but I haven't gotten there yet. If I used my writing to judge whether I am a successful person, so far I'm a failure.

Personally, I take my sense of worth from the fact that God loves me and considers me his child. That makes me valuable as a person no matter what I can or can't do. I'm not necessarily suggesting that's the right path for you, but everyone has to find some internal measure of worth. What's yours?

[Deccydiva]

There's nothing wrong with you. We all struggle in one way or another and have days, weeks and years where we feel completely useless at everything despite having friends around to reassure us, or not as the case may be. The only thing that's a problem right now is that things are bothering you in a way that is not good. I have been recommended a very old book, "How to Stop Worrying and Start Living" by Dale Carnegie. It's still available through Amazon and even the first Chapter has given me plenty to think about.
As far as writing goes, I just lie down and close my eyes and imagine a scene, any scene, then put myself in there as an observer. I look at who is there, what they are wearing, are they at school, in a cafe, in their house. Then I listen to what they might be saying. Sometimes it's easier to start by looking at a picture. When inspiration strikes I feel that the story is being dictated to me and I rush to get it down. Where does the inspiration come from? Reading literally thousands of books that I enjoyed so subconsciously I was "hearing" the style that appealed to me. Start SMALL and build up gradually. It's taken me the best part of 50 years to get to the point of completing a novel. It's like eating an elephant - a spoonful at a time.
That's how it is for me but everyone on here will have a different way of expressing themselves in words as a result of different training, upbringing, taste in reading etc., etc.
So - don't worry. Hard, I know, but you can write - you typed your post here, didn't you?
Incidentally, my father was undiagnosed aspergers during my childhood so I understand a bit about it. He was, amongst other things, an excellent writer despite coming from a background of poverty and poor education. He worked VERY hard though.

[JeanneTGC]

Yet, I turn 26 this month
Dwayne, two things.

1. You're ONLY 26. I don't care HOW many "young writer success stories" you read, they are all exceptions proving the rule -- most writers need to live longer and experience more before they can write anything worth reading. So, you're average, just like most of us -- you need more time, seasoning and practice to be good.

2. Contrary to your belief, not everyone CAN write -- not everyone CAN write a short story, an essay or a novel. If you've actually written and finished 3 books, you're more of a writer than many. So your books suck. So what? Everyone has a certain number of words they have to write before they stop just sucking unbelievably -- and it's in the hundred thousands range at least for most, at LEAST. We give you permission to just stink on ice until you get better. That's all it really takes...writing and writing and editing and writing and editing until your writing stops stinking up the joint and starts improving. You're doing all the other things that matter...just give yourself the time to improve. No one, NO ONE, is genius right out of the shoot. Most of us went through what you are...just hang in there.

[DwayneA]

Thanks everybody! I feel much better now! I do have great ideas for stories and I'm not going to give up on them. I love writing and I'm not going to quit!

Say, perhaps one of my future characters could go through such an internal crisis as this.

[Deccydiva]

:hooray: Good luck!

[treehugger]

You know, ah, you don't have to be a writer. You could be a carpenter or a dentist or a junior high math teacher. There are other ways to succeed in life.

[treehugger]

...and then my reply ends up being posted a few minutes too late and I kinda look like a jerk. Sorry about that..

Best of luck with your writing--and everything else.

[Norton]

Well actually, I have a lot of problems.
I don't know how ... I can't write ... I can't create ... I don't know anything about ... I can't bring a scene to life...in other words: I can't do anything!
English is the only language I understand, but I can't even write it! ... What's wrong with me?
OMG :e2faint:
Maybe you shouldn't write at all. So many "I can't" and "I don't"...
New Novelist 2.0 won't help you if you really don't know HOW to write the story. Nobody can teach you that. Books about writing, creative writing courses can only help you to improve and develop your writing skills. Ability to write an interesting story - it's a talent ... It's not only a craft.
Also it is obvious, that you don't have enough self-confidence.
What makes you think that you must be a writer?

[Norton]

I love writing and I'm not going to quit!

Good luck! :)

[DwayneA]

I love writing, it's something I've always enjoyed doing.

Okay, maybe writing books is different than writing other stuff, but I'm up for it! Why should I quit because someone wants me to and thinks I should?

[kct webber]

Dwayne, I'll give you some background. And yes, it has a point.

I grew up dirt poor on a farm, getting up and working for 3-4 hours before I went to school, then working 'till sundown before eating dinner and going to bed. And all this was in upstate NY in 30 below zero weather.

I went to a private school on scholership, where you had to have a 90% average to even pass your classes.

I then joined the army and did five years in the infantry and five years in the Special Operations, eating one meal a day for weeks on end, sleeping a couple of hours out of every 24 for months on end, sleeping in swamps, snow, etc. Carrying 120 lbs of gear on 30 or 40 mile movements.

I say all that to say this: Writing is the hardest thing I've ever done. Not everyone can do what we do.

[FennelGiraffe]

[Hmm, the discussion moved on while I was writing this, but I guess I'll post it anyway, just in case it's useful.]

Perhaps it will help to take a short break from working on a novel, and do some writing exercises.

- Try writing one single scene. Don't worry about what story it's part of or where it's going; just focus on that scene alone. Don't worry about whether you have a good idea; just use any idea that pops into your mind.

If even that's too much right now, try these:

- Look around you. Stop at the first thing that catches your eye. The clutter on top of your desk. The dirty dishes piled in your sink. A tree in the rain. Your dog. Anything. Spend some time carefully examining whatever you picked. Look at it, but also touch it. Smell it. Listen to it. If it's reasonable to do so, taste it. Now write one paragraph describing it. Use details from as many different senses as possible.

- Go out to a park or a mall or a cafe. Take a notebook with you. Watch people walking by until someone catches your attention. (Someone you don't know.) Jot down notes about what kind of person you think that is. Start with the physical details you can see, but go on to imagine personal details. What kind of work do they do? Where do they live (what kind of place)? Are they married? Do they have kids? Are they honest? What do they do for fun? And so on. Don't worry about being 'right'; just use whatever pops into your mind. Do the same thing with a second person. Now, write a one-page conversation between those two people. What's their relationship with each other? What kinds of things would they find to talk about?

[Oddsocks]

Say, perhaps one of my future characters could go through such an internal crisis as this.
That's not a bad idea at all.

It doesn't have to revolve around the same issues, either. But you know how this issue is making you feel? And you can describe how it's making you feel? That is definitely something you can use as a part of a story someday, and would help you with developing characters. So, even now, when you feel like you're struggling, you are making progress.

And the fact that you're thinking this sort of thing - that you might be able to use this difficult time you're going through for the purpose of improving your writing - is a great sign. It shows that writing's what you're thinking about.

So don't give up. As others have said, writing isn't easy, but the fact that you're consistently motivated to do it, and that you're thinking about it the way you are, suggests that, given time and committment, you'll be fine.

[tehuti88]

Say, perhaps one of my future characters could go through such an internal crisis as this.

See, this here is a really big step itself. Aside from paying attention in junior high English classes (to learn basic grammar), and reading a lot of other people's books (to learn style, narration, characterization, etc.), I've found that one of the most important and basic things in writing fiction well is to utilize your feelings. Sure, I've never been in the same situations as most of my characters, but human emotions are fundamental, and if you can identify with emotions, then you can surely someday learn to write a good, interesting character that readers will identify with too. And that's the first step in writing a good book.

You seemed to say you've written three books already? Even if you think they're lousy, you WROTE and FINISHED them, and that's a LOT more than many "I'm gonna be a writer!"s ever do. :D Hey, I've written four lousy books (they were good at the time), they can always be reworked! But you can't improve what's not there. :)

[Nateskate]

Hi Dwayne. Once upon a time I asked, "Why do I suck at everything?"

That question didn't arise out of reality, but a sense of futility. It sounds like you're convinced that if you don't hit a home run, then you stink, which isn't true.

Our self-view often comes from what was mirrored to us as a child, from parents, teachers, coaches- all of the above. If they told us we were great and projected that, we believed that. If they either said nothing, or said negative things, we likely believed that as well. It never mattered if they were misled and wrong, that's just how our minds work.

None of us are exactly what we think. Our egos may be over-inflated or under-inflated. And since you said, "I can't, I can't, I can't..." it's likely you lack confidence, which has nothing to do with reality.

I never sucked. I was slow to bloom, and just didn't get much validation. Eventually I became a scholarship athlete, formed an origional rock band, had songs recorded, had many things published, spoke before thousands of people, and I have no doubt I've made some difference in this world to many people.

Here's a question, "Regardless of whether you feel great about what you write, do you love to write? Do you have a story you want to tell?"

Writing begins with a dream, a dream that may seem afar off. Many of us stunk at writing at one time. But we loved writing enough to work on our flaws until we stopped stinking.

Whether you become a great writer or not, you must become convinced that your value does not depend on proving something to someone else, or even to yourself. Allow yourself the room to fail, and don't beat yourself up when you do. See it as a part of the process of getting to where you want to go.

The only way we can overcome our weaknesses is to take the risk of looking bad. And then we pick ourselves up and press on. Eventually we get where we need to go.

[jessicaorr]

Well actually, I have a lot of problems.


Often I feel like I can't do anything right. Several times, dad has called me a "brainless dope", he actually agreed when my younger brother called me a "handicapped kid", and he even called me f***ing stupid! Many times he even said I have no common sense and he also wonders if I leave my brain in bed! I'm not kidding, this stuff actually happened to me!



I think you've gotten a lot of great advice here. The only thing I could add/reiterate is to use these experiences. Write from your pain. There are more people who can relate to what you what you have to say than you might think.

[Bufty]

For what it's worth, Dwayne, I think your opening post in this thread is written very clearly and from the heart.

By the way - when I was a youngster I was regularly bottom of the class.

One year - because I outstripped my classmates in Spanish and attained 96% compared to the next highest mark of 45% - I came in top of the class and my late Dad - bless him - commented the rest of my class must have been a load of duffers. Thud.

I always remember that remark, but it was over 50 years ago now and I'm pretty sure he probably just let it slip and regretted it afterwards.

Good luck.

[qwerty]

I love writing, it's something I've always enjoyed doing.

Okay, maybe writing books is different than writing other stuff, but I'm up for it! Why should I quit because someone wants me to and thinks I should?

It's got nothing to do with anyone but you, Dwayne. As you say, if you want to do it, why should you quit doing something you want to do because someone else thinks you shouldn't be doing it?

Sounds to me like your confidence got knocked when you were growing up and trying to develop, but notwithstanding that, you did a writing course and did well with it.

Your post alone shows you are articulate. You have a good grasp of grammar and punctuation. The creative side is a case of loosening up and enjoying writing for the sheer joy of writing. It doesn't have to meet anyone's standards, but while you beat yourself up and say you can't do it, you won't do it.

Sod anyone who tries to tell you you shouldn't write. You may never be published, but that goes for a lot of us here. I'm a grandma, so I've probably left it too late to be a "successful" writer, but to me my success has been in knowing I followed a dream and wrote a few books.

[Madisonwrites]

Hey, first off, don't stress about it. I wrote my first story when I was 6 (I'm 19 now) and it was HORRIBLE! Ugh!

If you have trouble creating a story or just writing it down, try writing some non-fiction. Write about things that have happened in your life or things that have happened in your friend's lives. This can help you learn about characters and how a story flows. But if you have your heart set on fiction (like me!) try watching your fav movie and writing it in book form. This can help you learn about scene flow, characterization, plot, subplots, and more.

I can tell in your post that you know how to write because your sentences flow and you seem to have a good understanding of grammar, which is AWESOME! That's something I lack. Just don't stress and have fun with it. It'll come.

Happy writing! :D

[Phaeal]

Hey, Dwayne, your first post was very well-written, better than many I see even in this forum full of writers. You told me an interesting story right there.

Hang in! As for Diablo 2, go crazy like me and try a Battlemancer!

20 Dim Vision
1 Amp, 1 Lifetap, 1 Decrepify (and prerequisites)

1 Bone Shield
20 Bone Wall
20 Bone Prison
1 or more Corpse Explosion

10 plus Clay Golem
10 plus Golem Mastery
1-5 Summon Resist

A Might merc is nice, though I like Elly the Rogue, too. Why? Just because I like Elly the Rogue.

Play him with a two-handed sword for extra style, and hardcore for extra challenge.

Oooh, l33t. ;)

[Shweta]

Hey Dwayne,

First: Hang in there. Your dad and brother don't know the stories in your head. So! Prove them wrong! :)

Second: Many of us learn best by doing. Possibly all of us. Now, that may seem really daunting, so here are a couple things that might help you to try out different aspects of writing and see how they go.

-- You might find Ursula Le Guin's Steering the Craft a useful book. It has writing exercises and things to think about, and examples, and it's extremely clear.

-- I'd say take one problem at a time. Seeing problems is a good thing; it's how we improve. So once you see a problem, read some good books in your genre, and see how they do it. Not just any old published books, but the ones readers/editors think are the best. That's always a difficult and subjective term, of course, but try some award-winners.

Once you see how they do it, try reading the paragraphs where they do it four or five times, to get both an understanding and a feel for it.

I never understood smells in books myself until I read one of Patricia Wrede's books and went oh, that's how it's done. Now, I don't do it the same way she does, because since then I've written a lot and learned a lot and formed that knowledge into my own style. But that's how it often starts.

-- You might want to try writing a short story, or even just a few scenes, rather than a whole novel - while you're trying to figure these things out.


Third: these questions aren't novel-specific, and there may be more useful information in BWQ, so, moving.

[Lady Cat]

You've been given a lot of good advice in the replies to your post, Dwayne.

All I can add is that if you really love to write, then keep at it. Even the best writers get discouraged at times, but they always work through it.

The fact that you've finished three novels is more than most people accomplish!

[FOTSGreg]

Heh, This may seem weird, but I'm going to do you a favor, Dwayne. Bear with me a moment.

You obviously are capable of stringing five words together in a sentence. Nowadays it seems that everyone who can do that thinks they can be a writer. They also think they're going to get rich writing. That ain't gonna' happen. Believe that, first off. Writing is a tough business. You make the kind of money on an hourly basis writing that make African or Chinese sweatshop wages seem like real money.

However, it doesn't matter what kind of money you make if you have stories to tell that people like and that you enjoy telling.

So, here's the favor. I officially give you permission to suck, to write crap, and to enjoy doing it.

See? It's done. Go ahead and write and don't worry that it's not the "Great American Novel". Feel completely free to write anything you want any way you want even if it sucks or reads like crap. That's how you learn this dirty business.

Oh, and in regards to that favor, don't worry about owing me anything - unless of course you do get rich in which case we'll talk. Just pass the favor on to someone else some day like someone did for me.

[platinumscript]

tremendous effort you've already demonstrated. you can write a book. you did. i haven't. good luck... don't sweat it God still loves you... and so do I.

[FOTSGreg]

Oh, and remember what somebody once said about writing being a lot like prostitution. There are 3 stages to both.

First you do it for love
Next you do it for a few friends
Finally you do it for money

[Gillhoughly]

One: Get library card.
Two: Read the library.
Three: Then write.

[DwayneA]

thanks for all this great advice.

Of course, I still have one major problem though. Even when I do write a book, how do I go about looking for a good publisher? And how do I promote and market the work? I'm asking because each of my past three books are barely selling at all. In fact, I bought most of the copies of my third book to sell in dad's store, and he bought 125 copies of my first book for the same purpose! Seems like we're the only ones even purchasing the works.

As for the Diablo II characters, I've made a txt file about all kinds of different character builds, character names, and the planned stats, skills, and equipment. I've gotten about seventy! I've jotted down plans for bowazons specializing in either fire, cold, or physical damage, lightning/poison javazons, poisonmancers, bonemancers, summoners, sword, axe, and mace frenzy barbarians, physical and elemental zealots, cold, fire, and lightning sorceresses, werewolf, werebear, elemental druids, trappassins, martial artists, duel claw and single claw assassins, hybrids, and so on! I found that the key is specialization!

In fact, I'm using character names from my future works for some of them, such as Lotarlya and Zortega for summoning necromancers, Fiona for a tri-elemental sorceress, Elisa as an Amazon specializing in both usage of a bow and a spear, I'm even using the last name of the protagonist of my current work Souls Extinguished for a fire sorceress!

[Queen of Swords]

And how do I promote and market the work? I'm asking because each of my past three books are barely selling at all. In fact, I bought most of the copies of my third book to sell in dad's store, and he bought 125 copies of my first book for the same purpose! Seems like we're the only ones even purchasing the works.

IIRC, your previous three books were put out by Infinity Publishing, Protea Publishing and PublishAmerica, all of which are vanity presses. With vanity publishing, most purchases of books are made by the author and the author's family/friends. Vanity presses don't have distributors, because once they get the author's payment, they don't have any need to sell books to bookstores. They profit directly from the author, not from the reading public.

Commercial publishers have sales and marketing departments, as well as distributors, so they don't rely on the author to do all the promoting and marketing himself. They also don't expect authors to purchase books in bulk to resell.

Still, you'll only have to worry about this once you've completed a book that's up to the standards of commercial publication.

[IceCreamEmpress]

Of course, I still have one major problem though. Even when I do write a book, how do I go about looking for a good publisher?

You start by looking for an agent.

Go into bookstores and libraries and find books you like that are in a genre and style similar to yours. Either by checking the "acknowledgments" section, or by doing research online, you'll be able to find out which agents represented the authors of those books.

Then you query the agents. There are tons of resources here to help you do that.

Then, once you have an agent, the agent works to place your book with the right publisher.


And how do I promote and market the work?

Good publishers will market the work for you (e.g., get it placed in bookstores) and support you in promoting it (e.g., help you arrange signings).


Good luck.

[Gillhoughly]

Go into a bookstore.

Find books like yours. Write name of publisher/writer.

Check publisher websites for submission guidelines.

Check writer websites for who their agents are. You can write and politely ask.

You won't find Publish America or other vanity press books in a bookstore. If you do, it was a mistake.

The writers with books in the stores got PAID for their work.

Go to Learn Writing with Uncle Jim and start on p. 1.

I've sold more than 20 novels. I read that thread and I still learn new things.

And read your library. It worked just fine for Ray Bradbury.

Hell, it worked just dandy for ME!

[Maine2]

Thanks everybody! I feel much better now! I do have great ideas for stories and I'm not going to give up on them. I love writing and I'm not going to quit!

Say, perhaps one of my future characters could go through such an internal crisis as this.

:hooray:That's the spirit. I have just written one manuscript (nowhere near getting published, at least not yet) and just recently found out that basically it sucks but that's okay :). I have the dream of one day seeing my books on the bookshelves at barnes and noble next to some of what I consider the greats. I think if you love to write you just keep trying no matter how bad it is. You take any criticisim you get and you use it to learn and apply and maybe someday you get the great piece of work that you are striving for. So Good Luck and don't give up.