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Bravo
09-05-2008, 12:47 AM
two weeks ago, palin's pastor introduced a guy who described terrorist attacks on Israelis as God's "judgment of unbelief" of Jews who haven't embraced Christianity.


"Judgment is very real and we see it played out on the pages of the newspapers and on the television. It's very real. When [Brickner's son] was in Jerusalem he was there to witness some of that judgment, some of that conflict, when a Palestinian from East Jerusalem took a bulldozer and went plowing through a score of cars, killing numbers of people. Judgment — you can't miss it."

Palin was in church that day, Kroon said, though he cautioned against attributing Brickner’s views to her.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13098.html

Pastor Kalnins has also preached that critics of President Bush will be banished to hell; questioned whether people who voted for Sen. John Kerry in 2004 would be accepted to heaven; charged that the 9/11 terrorist attacks and war in Iraq were part of a war "contending for your faith;" and said that Jesus "operated from that position of war mode."

It is impossible to determine how much Wasilla Assembly of God has shaped Palin's thinking. She was baptized there at the age of 12 and attended the church for most of her adult life. When Palin was inaugurated as governor, the founding pastor of the church delivered the invocation. In 2002, Palin moved her family to a nondenominational church, but she continues to worship at a related Assembly of God church in Juneau.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/02/palins-church-may-have-sh_n_123205.html

yet another end times believer in mccain's camp.

someone give him some weed to calm him down.

Shadow_Ferret
09-05-2008, 12:48 AM
Didn't we already go through all this nonsense with Obama? Do we have to go through it again with Palin?

Bravo
09-05-2008, 12:49 AM
yes.

Sheryl Nantus
09-05-2008, 12:50 AM
dang... and I had just taken you off my "ignore" list...

:D

StoryG27
09-05-2008, 12:50 AM
Didn't we already go through all this nonsense with Obama? Do we have to go through it again with Palin?
Exactly, do we now have to drag up everything all over again? I, a republican, thought that was ridiculous for people to do to Obama. It is no less ridiculous now.

Robert Toy
09-05-2008, 12:51 AM
yes.
In that case, burn the bitch at the stake!

Shadow_Ferret
09-05-2008, 12:52 AM
yes.
Well, have fun. I think I have to go clean the grout in my bathroom.

Bravo
09-05-2008, 12:53 AM
dang... and I had just taken you off my "ignore" list...

:D

ahh good ol' sheryl, right on time with the trolling. why did you take me off ignore?

but before you put me back on, perhaps you can tell us why you're posting in this thread after you said:

frankly, and I've said this before, I'm in favor of dumping the entire sub-forum.

this is a WRITING board.

go elsewhere to talk politics.

:(

then lock the entire darned thing away under a password and let those of us who want to WRITE come here and see WRITING topics instead of a slew of new posts on politics.

make it like SYW - you guys want to brawl, do it without the rest of us seeing it scroll across the screen.

pop quiz sheryl, how many posts have you made in P&CE after these statements?

how many posts have you made here before you said this?

oh and for the kicker, how many of those posts have been dedicated to trolling me?

go do a search and find out...

eta:

i just realized:

frankly, and I've said this before, I'm in favor of dumping the entire sub-forum.

you've said this before, and yet....

you still continued posting?

WTF??

does a little voice compel you to post your drivel here?

seriously, sheryl this isn't healthy. doing something that you hate yourself for, just isnt good for you.

cethklein
09-05-2008, 12:55 AM
Exactly, do we now have to drag up everything all over again? I, a republican, thought that was ridiculous for people to do to Obama. It is no less ridiculous now.

Agreed. Although I can't help but be entertained at the irony here. I'd hate to see Palin get grilled over this but I will definitely say something if anyone who knocked Obama and Wright complain here.

Bravo
09-05-2008, 12:56 AM
look, you dont have to participate in the thread if you find it distasteful or offensive or whatever.

the point is that republican's attacked obama for having a pastor who said controversial things, and mccain joined in on that (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/28/obamas-pastor-jeremiah-wr_n_98922.html).

furthermore, he has a history of surrounding himself with people who believe that armaggeddon is around the corner and that jesus/god wants war, which should be frightening to anyone and everyone.

StoryG27
09-05-2008, 01:01 AM
look, you dont have to participate in the thread if you find it distasteful or offensive or whatever.

the point is that republican's attacked obama for having a pastor who said controversial things, and mccain joined in on that.

furthermore, he has a history of surrounding himself with people who believe that armaggeddon is around the corner and that jesus/god wants war, which should be frightening to anyone and everyone.
Yes, and here's the two wrongs make a right in action.
I'm sure you're ready then to defend again Obama and his associations, otherwise, I guess you wouldn't bring it up because you know without a doubt where this is headed.

Bravo
09-05-2008, 01:01 AM
Mccain: "I saw yesterday some additional comments that have been revealed by Pastor Wright. One of them, comparing the United States Marine Corps with Roman legionnaires who were responsible for the death of our savior. I mean, being involved in that. It's beyond belief. And then of course, saying that al Qaeda and the American flag were the same flags. So, I can understand. I can understand why people are upset about this. I can understand why, that Americans when viewing these kinds of comments are angry and upset."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/28/obamas-pastor-jeremiah-wr_n_98922.html

FYI:

Jake Tapper points out that Wright never actually made those comments about the American flag. And Marc Ambinder notes that, "Wright was in the Marines. He was a corpesman in Vietnam. He voluntarily enlisted."

Bravo
09-05-2008, 01:02 AM
Yes, and here's the two wrongs make a right in action.
I'm sure you're ready then to defend again Obama and his associations, otherwise, I guess you wouldn't bring it up because you know without a doubt where this is headed.

i thought obama's pastor was a legitimate issue and needed to be addressed.

blacbird
09-05-2008, 01:02 AM
Exactly, do we now have to drag up everything all over again? I, a republican, thought that was ridiculous for people to do to Obama. It is no less ridiculous now.

I agree with you. But both Republicans and Hillary Clinton did hammer at the Jeremiah Wright stuff as hard as they could, and I'll bet the McCain campaign brings it up again, right soon. Watch for the TV ads.

So far I've heard nothing from the Obama campaign, or for that matter from any Democrats, about Sarah Palin's religious affiliations or associations.

caw

Robert Toy
09-05-2008, 01:08 AM
Mccain:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/28/obamas-pastor-jeremiah-wr_n_98922.html

FYI:
Not that I would doubt the creditability of the Huff, but the quote being attributed to McCain, just does read like McCain style of speech.

But, what the hell save time, burn both of them at the stake.

maestrowork
09-05-2008, 01:09 AM
Palin was in church that day, Kroon said, though he cautioned against attributing Brickner’s views to her.


I think that says it all.

Now, if that's what Sarah Palin said herself, I may have given it a second thought.


Wait... I am not voting for her anyway. ;)

But really, I wouldn't attribute what her pastor said to her.

cethklein
09-05-2008, 01:10 AM
look, you dont have to participate in the thread if you find it distasteful or offensive or whatever.

the point is that republican's attacked obama for having a pastor who said controversial things, and mccain joined in on that (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/28/obamas-pastor-jeremiah-wr_n_98922.html).

furthermore, he has a history of surrounding himself with people who believe that armaggeddon is around the corner and that jesus/god wants war, which should be frightening to anyone and everyone.

so you're going to emulate the people you don't agree with? I've never understood this mentality. Isn't it better to take the high road?

Bravo
09-05-2008, 01:11 AM
i take whatever road suits me.

Bravo
09-05-2008, 01:12 AM
and right now the irony of this is suiting me very well.

Shadow_Ferret
09-05-2008, 01:20 AM
and right now the irony of this is suiting me very well.
Glad you're seeing irony.

Robert Toy
09-05-2008, 01:23 AM
Quiet, lonely irony

Bravo
09-05-2008, 01:24 AM
i'm the loneliest poster in the whole world.

Celia Cyanide
09-05-2008, 01:28 AM
so you're going to emulate the people you don't agree with? I've never understood this mentality. Isn't it better to take the high road?

Just to clarify, I don't see Bravo emulating anyone. I think he's pointing out the irony here. And it IS ironic that McCain held Obama responsible for what his pastor said, and now his running mate has a pastor saying outrageous things. If he chooses her as a running mate, clearly he doesn't think a person should be held responsible for what his/her pastor says. Yet he holds it against Obama when it benefits him.

Bravo
09-05-2008, 01:31 AM
i knew i'd finally find someone who understands me.

maestrowork
09-05-2008, 01:34 AM
Just to clarify, I don't see Bravo emulating anyone. I think he's pointing out the irony here. And it IS ironic that McCain held Obama responsible for what his pastor said, and now his running mate has a pastor saying outrageous things. If he chooses her as a running mate, clearly he doesn't think a person should be held responsible for what his/her pastor says. Yet he holds it against Obama when it benefits him.

Just the same old same old party politics.

I wouldn't lose sleep over this one.

WarrenP
09-05-2008, 01:36 AM
I see the guest pastor's views on Jews, but not Palin's pastor. Where are those articulated?

Also, the other lines you quoted, the first para of the Hpost article, are all someone else's words, not her pastor's. At least put her pastor's own words there, so they can be discussed, versus a summary from a third party.


BTW, you should make it clear that the first quote you have isn't her pastor, as your thread title implies.

Shadow_Ferret
09-05-2008, 01:38 AM
Just to clarify, I don't see Bravo emulating anyone. I think he's pointing out the irony here. And it IS ironic that McCain held Obama responsible for what his pastor said, and now his running mate has a pastor saying outrageous things. If he chooses her as a running mate, clearly he doesn't think a person should be held responsible for what his/her pastor says. Yet he holds it against Obama when it benefits him.
Oh! POLITICAL irony.

That doesn't really exist. It's just a chimera.

Bravo
09-05-2008, 01:39 AM
look we can go back and forth with this all day about whether it's right to point this out or not, but that's missing the big picture.

because once again, this shows that mccain associates himself with people who believe (or at the very least have been brought up to believe) that God is in "war-mode" and that armageddon is coming.

that's frightening to me.

but i'm weird like that.

WarrenP
09-05-2008, 01:39 AM
Just to clarify, I don't see Bravo emulating anyone. I think he's pointing out the irony here. And it IS ironic that McCain held Obama responsible for what his pastor said, and now his running mate has a pastor saying outrageous things. If he chooses her as a running mate, clearly he doesn't think a person should be held responsible for what his/her pastor says. Yet he holds it against Obama when it benefits him.

I'm waiting to see what her pastor said that is on par with God damn America, and that the US government is purposefully introducing disease in the black commuity to kill African Americans.

We may get there, but we are not yet to the irony stage...

Robert Toy
09-05-2008, 01:40 AM
Just the same old same old party politics.

I wouldn't lose sleep over this one.
Déjà Moo

Bravo
09-05-2008, 01:45 AM
I see the guest pastor's views on Jews, but not Palin's pastor. Where are those articulated?

yes you're right. palin's pastor introduced him as a guest speaker two weeks ago.



Also, the other lines you quoted, the first para of the Hpost article, are all someone else's words, not her pastor's. At least put her pastor's own words there, so they can be discussed, versus a summary from a third party.


in the rest of the article:

Much of his support for the current administration has come in the realm of foreign affairs. Kalnins has preached that the 9/11 attacks and the invasion of Iraq were part of a "world war" over the Christian faith, one in which Jesus Christ had called upon believers to be willing to sacrifice their lives.

What you see in a terrorist -- that's called the invisible enemy. There has always been an invisible enemy. What you see in Iraq, basically, is a manifestation of what's going on in this unseen world called the spirit world. ... We need to think like Jesus thinks. We are in a time and a season of war, and we need to think like that. We need to develop that instinct. We need to develop as believers the instinct that we are at war, and that war is contending for your faith. ... Jesus called us to die. You're worried about getting hurt? He's called us to die. Listen, you know we can't even follow him unless you are willing to give up your life. ... I believe that Jesus himself operated from that position of war mode. Everyone say "war mode." Now you say, wait a minute Ed, he's like the good shepherd, he's loving all the time and he's kind all the time. Oh yes he is -- but I also believe that he had a part of his thoughts that knew that he was in a war.

During his appearance with Palin in June, he declared, "I believe Alaska is one of the refuge states in the last days, and hundreds of thousands of people are going to come to the state to seek refuge and the church has to be ready to minister to them



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/02/palins-church-may-have-sh_n_123205.html



BTW, you should make it clear that the first quote you have isn't her pastor, as your thread title implies.

noted.

eta: one of the sites i saw this on, said that palin was sitting there while her own pastor had said those comments about jewsbut apparently it was a guest speaker.

well maybe sean hannity wont demand an explanation for then.

shawkins
09-05-2008, 01:55 AM
Whatever happened to "thou shalt not kill?"

I'll give Palin the benefit of the doubt and assume she's spewing this madness out of sincere belief rather than cynical manipulation, but in a lot of ways that's even worse. When Bush was elected his evangelical fervor scared me far less than his dumbness, but it turned out to be a much more destructive aspect of his personality. (I actually do believe that the reason we invaded Iraq was not to steal their oil but rather because Bush sincerely believed that's what God wanted him to do.)

Oh, please God, not another 21st century crusader with access to the button.

WarrenP
09-05-2008, 01:58 AM
...
in the rest of the article:

Much of his support for the current administration has come in the realm of foreign affairs. Kalnins has preached that the 9/11 attacks and the invasion of Iraq were part of a "world war" over the Christian faith, one in which Jesus Christ had called upon believers to be willing to sacrifice their lives.
....


I read the rest of the article, and there is very little there from her pastor himself for us to discuss. This is new to me, so I want his actual sermons and speeches, so I can read them all, in context, not two or three words here and there. He may turn out to be a flame-throwing moron, but without a bit more to go on, I'm not in a position to critique him on that yet.

As to some of the specific points...

The idea that the 9/11 attacks and Iraq are part of a "world war" is hardly new, entire books have been written on that subject. Also, the injection that this world war is religious based or faith based also has been written on extensively. There is some very compelling work out there by many authors making this very point.

Jesus operated from war mode. I need to know what he means by that line in order to make an opinion on it. A friend of mine has a bumper sticker that says "Jesus is the ultimate warrior." By no means is that a pass, but I'd like to hear him articulate that further. Even the paragraph you have, with the bolded war mode line doesn't clarify that to me, as I've not thought of war in that position and need to consider it for a while to come to some sory of opinion on it.

What does that paragraph mean to you? And, since you bolded it, what is the specific significance of that line to you?

blacbird
09-05-2008, 01:59 AM
Exactly what difference does it make if the speaker was her regular pastor, or a guest invited to speak by her regular pastor? The reason the guy was invited almost certainly was to preach to a congregation with shared viewpoints.

caw

shawkins
09-05-2008, 02:01 AM
What does that paragraph mean to you?

To me it means she completely missed the point of the Bible and is twisting a very clear message of love and brotherhood into something that can be used to justify a pointless invasion that cost a lot of lives.

WarrenP
09-05-2008, 02:04 AM
Whatever happened to "thou shalt not kill?"

...


Quick side note. Most translations have that Commandment wrong. It isn't "Thou shall not kill." It is, essentially "Thou shall not murder." The Bible is very clear throughout that there is a big distinction between kill and murder.

/back to the regularly scheduled program....

ColoradoGuy
09-05-2008, 02:05 AM
To me it means she completely missed the point of the Bible and is twisting a very clear message of love and brotherhood into something that can be used to justify a pointless invasion that cost a lot of lives.
And we have a winner!

Bravo
09-05-2008, 02:06 AM
well unfortunately the church's website (http://wasillabible.org/) is now offline, and apparently so are all previous sermons.

so i guess we'll never know what else the pastor said, warren.

:Shrug:

WarrenP
09-05-2008, 02:06 AM
Exactly what difference does it make if the speaker was her regular pastor, or a guest invited to speak by her regular pastor? The reason the guy was invited almost certainly was to preach to a congregation with shared viewpoints.

caw

I don't think it makes that much difference either. The intent in my reply to Bravo was for clarity and accuracy...

ColoradoGuy
09-05-2008, 02:07 AM
Quick side note. Most translations have that Commandment wrong. It isn't "Thou shall not kill." It is, essentially "Thou shall not murder." The Bible is very clear throughout that there is a big distinction between kill and murder.

/back to the regularly scheduled program....
Sounds a bit on the Pharisaical side to me.

maestrowork
09-05-2008, 02:08 AM
I never understand or like the God-war drumming, but for some reasons, it works for some people. But I see the hypocrisy as we decry the jihad raged upon us by the zealots in the middle east: what makes it okay for us to pull our God into this war?

I mean, they're saying their God made them do it. And we're saying our God made us do it.

OK. So let the fucking bloodshed recycle for generations to come, then. I hope the gods are happy.


That said, I still don't know the direct link to Palin and McCain. Just as much as I would not draw a line between Obama and his pastor, I wouldn't here either.

WarrenP
09-05-2008, 02:10 AM
well unfortunately the church's website (http://wasillabible.org/) is now offline, and apparently so are all previous sermons.

so i guess we'll never know what else the pastor said, warren.

:Shrug:

I'll see if I can find it... you guys can too. There is an Internet site called the Internet Archive (the Wayback Machine). Basically, it archives websites by date, so even if a site is offline today (I'd guess they got slammed with traffic at a level never before seen), or they change the content, you can find old versions of the site...

http://www.archive.org/index.php that is the URL. I don't have time now, but if you do, enter the church's URL, and check out old versions of their site. Let us know what you find....

ETA: FYI images and links may be broken, the further back you go.... but that is a fun site, especially for research... enjoy.

WarrenP
09-05-2008, 02:13 AM
Sounds a bit on the Pharisaical side to me.

Why? There is a legit difference between kill and murder...

BTW, I had to look up Pharisaical, so thanks for the new word! :)

WarrenP
09-05-2008, 02:15 AM
... I mean, they're saying their God made them do it. And we're saying our God made us do it. ...

This part always makes me sad. I wish they would step back for one second and realize that Christianity and Islam have the same God... the whole thing is silly...

ColoradoGuy
09-05-2008, 02:16 AM
Why? There is a legit difference between kill and murder... :)
Welcome to Just War Theory (http://www.iep.utm.edu/j/justwar.htm).

maestrowork
09-05-2008, 02:23 AM
This part always makes me sad. I wish they would step back for one second and realize that Christianity and Islam have the same God... the whole thing is silly...

I just find the whole thing about the righteousness of war within a religious context really, really sad. Whether it's Christianity or Islam. But more so about Christianity since I grew up a Christian. That's not the kind of church I went to, drumming on about war, by men who are supposed to talk about love and compassion. That kind of vocabulary wasn't even there and I went to Christian schools until I was 20.

Sad.

WarrenP
09-05-2008, 02:24 AM
Welcome to Just War Theory (http://www.iep.utm.edu/j/justwar.htm).

I think that is reading waaaay beyond my simple point that the translation of that Commandment is incorrect. There is a clear difference between kill and murder, as even our own court system defines i.e. manslaughter and murder. The Bible also makes the distinction, and that commandment is Thou Shall Not Murder. If people then wish to use or apply that to their own ends that is a second issue, mine was language only...

StoryG27
09-05-2008, 02:25 AM
Welcome to Just War Theory (http://www.iep.utm.edu/j/justwar.htm).
Actually, it sounds like he is already in tune with it, whether or not being introduced to it formally.

There is a difference between murder and killing, even outside the context of war.

Declaring a war in the name of God is as old as time, and still just as tragic.

WarrenP
09-05-2008, 02:26 AM
I just find the whole thing about the righteousness of war within a religious context really, really sad. Whether it's Christianity or Islam. But more so about Christianity since I grew up a Christian. That's not the kind of church I went to, drumming on about war, by men who are supposed to talk about love and compassion. That kind of vocabulary wasn't even there and I went to Christian schools until I was 20.

Sad.

I agree entirely.

Christine N.
09-05-2008, 02:32 AM
blah, blah, blah.

That Times article also said Palin's church encourages people to 'overcome homosexuality'.

I can't blast her for it when the issue was irrelevant to Obama's campaign, although we KNOW Palin's anti-gay marriage. They're not her words, and until she utters them, she's not responsible for them.

OMG!

ColoradoGuy
09-05-2008, 02:54 AM
There is a difference between murder and killing, even outside the context of war.
Not to derail to much, but in some theologies that distinction is razor-thin or even absent.

maestrowork
09-05-2008, 02:57 AM
I believe, "killing in the name of God" is not murder. Most religious wars were fought under that banner.

ColoradoGuy
09-05-2008, 03:00 AM
I believe, "killing in the name of God" is not murder. Most religious wars were fought under that banner.
Right. Those are the other theologies.

shawkins
09-05-2008, 04:09 AM
What about the ninth commandment (https://apostolic.imavex.com/biblestudy/files/9th-com.htm)?

"The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa ."

--George W. Bush, January 23 2003

The guys who went to war under the assumption that their Commander in Chief wasn't bearing false witness might--very, very, arguably--not be in violation of "thou shalt not kill," but either way I think Bush has a lot of explaining to do.

Don
09-05-2008, 04:12 AM
"We are known by the company we keep."

Best I can tell, both Obama and Palin spent their Sundays taking spiritual counsel from people I wouldn't let in my living room, yet apparently the decision is to give them both a pass on the issue. I don't understand that decision at all, sorry.

astonwest
09-05-2008, 04:35 AM
And we never see any piling on around here...

:rolleyes:

benbradley
09-05-2008, 04:46 AM
well unfortunately the church's website (http://wasillabible.org/) is now offline, and apparently so are all previous sermons.

so i guess we'll never know what else the pastor said, warren.

:Shrug:

I see it right here, though I didn't look for any sermons. Perhaps the server was slashdotted overloaded when you looked:
http://wasillabible.org/
If you suspect any changes due to political situations, you might want to look through earlier versions of the site, thoughtfully saved by Mr. Peabody's contraption:
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://wasillabible.org

maestrowork
09-05-2008, 05:29 AM
And we never see any piling on around here...

:rolleyes:

Ahem, actually there was piling on, if my memory serves me right.

So please, guys. It's easy to play the knight when the jester is on the other side. One thing I find troubling here is that the people who called foul just months ago are doing the same thing now, or vice versa. I see that all the time. I think in a way, that's exactly what Bravo's point was about McCain...

I may sound self-righteous here (and I probably am), but I never piled on Obama over his pastor, and I am not piling on Palin here.

Again, as I said, unless it came right out of Obama's or Palin's mouth, it does nothing for me.

Phoebe H
09-05-2008, 05:43 AM
I'm waiting to see what her pastor said that is on par with God damn America, and that the US government is purposefully introducing disease in the black commuity to kill African Americans.

We may get there, but we are not yet to the irony stage...

For that you have to go to quotes from the head of the Alaska Independence Party, who said:

"The fires of hell are as glaciers next to my hatred for the United States."

Now. Several days ago, the Alaska Independence Party said that Sarah Palin had been a member for many years. Yesterday, they changed their statements and said that, in fact, she had never been a member herself, but her husband had been a member for 7 years, and she had attended their convention 5 different times.

Take from that what you will.

BenPanced
09-05-2008, 05:48 AM
Just the same old same old party politics.

I wouldn't lose sleep over this one.
At least not until the night before Election Day and the polls are skewed against whichever candidate I'm voting for...

cethklein
09-05-2008, 05:59 AM
What about the ninth commandment (https://apostolic.imavex.com/biblestudy/files/9th-com.htm)?

"The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa ."

--George W. Bush, January 23 2003

The guys who went to war under the assumption that their Commander in Chief wasn't bearing false witness might--very, very, arguably--not be in violation of "thou shalt not kill," but either way I think Bush has a lot of explaining to do.

It'll never happen. I think Bush genuinely believes he was right, to this very day. I wouldn't even be surprised if years from now it comes to light that the man had mental issues. It always disgusted me how people compared him to Hitler, and still does. However, there is one striking similarity: They both have that "don't confuse me with the facts, my mind's made up" mentality. Nothing can change his mind, ever.

Bravo
09-05-2008, 06:01 AM
that's because they're both idealists, ceth.

StoryG27
09-05-2008, 06:18 AM
Not to derail to much, but in some theologies that distinction is razor-thin or even absent.
And in some, it's not.
In the Bible, God orders mass destruction and child sacrifice (Canaan, The great flood, there's more I can't think of). So theologians need to make the distinction in most cases.

I'm not a theologian, and my answer that killing is not the same as murdering has nothing to do with religion.

Bartholomew
09-05-2008, 06:36 AM
Has the Obama camp said word one about this? It'd be nice if a politician really was above the mud slinging. Especially such stupid mud slinging--just because Palin makes appearance as a church doesn't mean she subscribes to its medicine. She's a politician--she could be there for anything.

InfinityGoddess
09-05-2008, 06:43 AM
Has the Obama camp said word one about this? It'd be nice if a politician really was above the mud slinging. Especially such stupid mud slinging--just because Palin makes appearance as a church doesn't mean she subscribes to its medicine. She's a politician--she could be there for anything.

It was her church and she was worshipping there.

The Obama camp hasn't said anything about it.

maestrowork
09-05-2008, 06:52 AM
The Obama camp hasn't said anything about it.

I sure hope they keep it that way.

Bartholomew
09-05-2008, 06:59 AM
It was her church and she was worshiping there.


I've been to temples and churches where people said stupid, offensive things. My presence was not my subscription. Shouldn't I assume the same thing about other people? Why not?

maestrowork
09-05-2008, 07:03 AM
I've been to temples and churches where people said stupid, offensive things. My presence was not my subscription. Shouldn't I assume the same thing about other people? Why not?

I agree, that's why I'm not making an issue of what a guest pastor said in her church. There are people I don't agree with in my own circle, but that shouldn't reflect on my own values. Now, I have no way of knowing if Sarah Palin agreed or not, but like I said, unless she uttered those words herself, it's not an issue. "Guilt by association" is a very damning thing, pardon the pun.

Bravo
09-05-2008, 07:12 AM
palin has been a member of this church since she was 12 years old. granted, i dont think there's rev. wright level of soundbites here, but some of the statements about how america will be punished for immorality, about god being in war-mode, about bush-foes being hellbound (http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/09/palins_past_pastor_bushfoes_he.html) and about armageddon are worth questioning her over, right? i mean why did she belong to this church for so long if she doesnt believe these things? isnt that what conservatives were asking obama and he had to clarify for them?

and speaking of guest speakers, remember this?

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104233&highlight=church&page=2

Robert Toy
09-05-2008, 09:54 AM
i mean why did she belong to this church for so long if she doesnt believe these things?
I was born and raised a Roman Catholic, attended parochial schools, etc.

My continued attendance at a particular church for decades does not mean I automatically agree with every tenet of the church.

For example, because I had been a member of the Catholic Church for so long, if one assumes I must therefore agree that abortion is a sin, that assumption would be wrong.

Your question and apparent attempt to link, believing or leaving as the only logically choices is not valid.

Bravo
09-05-2008, 03:03 PM
i think you missed the sentence immediately after that.

Bartholomew
09-05-2008, 03:32 PM
He does that a lot.

Robert Toy
09-05-2008, 04:00 PM
He does that a lot.
:D