PB&J, pb&j, p.b.and j., p.b. & j.

[RedScylla]

I'm working on a story in which a character makes a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Now, I suppose I could refer to it in just that way, but I don't think my first person narrator would ever say the whole thing. So, the question is, what's the proper way to abbreviate it?

[Clair Dickson]

I would use PB&J

[pdr]

include a footnote for non-Americans who do not eat such things. :)

[Matera the Mad]

I much prefer a BLT. However, I imagine that if the description of the process includes the ingredients (I grabbed the peanut butter jar and headed for the fridge to get the jelly...), anyone will understand what nauseating concoction is being brewed. And PB&J is probably the way to go.

[Maryn]

I, too, would write it as PB&J. Although at our house, the J is jam, not jelly.

Maryn, elitist snob

Afterthought: Really, does the rest of the English-speaking world not know the term PB&J? Hell, we know Vegemite.

[Clair Dickson]

Stephen King never stopped his story to explain that Lucky's were cigarettes. Raymond Chandler never stopped to explain what a photostat was. I think somethings, if they are part of the flavor of the character's life, should NOT be explained. That, to me, would distract from the book. Especially, if you stop to think about how many things other people may not know. (Seriously, I imagine there might be a reader some where that wouldn't know that Michigan is the coolest shaped state, ever... I mean, shaped like a Mitten.)

[maestrowork]

I wrote a short once and used PB&J. No problemo.

[Jo]

Afterthought: Really, does the rest of the English-speaking world not know the term PB&J? Hell, we know Vegemite.

We know about the peanut butter and jelly/jam (from watching Sesame Street :D), but the abbreviation PB&J is not so well known. I remember coming across it a while back in Children's SYW. It took me a while, with the help of other posts, to figure it out.

[EriRae]

"It's peanut-butter-jelly time, peanut-butter-jelly time: peanut-butter-jelly, peanut-butter-jelly, peanut-butter-jelly with a baseball bat."

Sorry. Thread title alone put that song in my head.

PB&J works for me.

[Inky]

I, too, would write it as PB&J. Although at our house, the J is jam, not jelly.

Maryn, elitist snob

Afterthought: Really, does the rest of the English-speaking world not know the term PB&J? Hell, we know Vegemite.
Jam in this household too. Jelly is too squiggly. Uber ick. And, AND Fritos (crisps for those of you on the right side of the pond) laid oh-so-artfully on the peanut butter side just before 'closing' the sandwich provides a delightful salty crunch....huh....I knew a guy like that once...PBJ&F...no, no, not Dumb-Dumb's name...Peanut Butter, Jam and Fritos

Inky, who forgets NOT to reminisce about old boy-toys publicly...

[Ms Hollands]

We know about the peanut butter and jelly/jam (from watching Sesame Street :D), but the abbreviation PB&J is not so well known. I remember coming across it a while back in Children's SYW. It took me a while, with the help of other posts, to figure it out.

EXACTLY! I wouldn't know what PB&J is, but I would know what a packet of Luckies is or what a photostat is because they are known worldwide.

I bet you wouldn't know the meaning of "Happy little vegemite"

...or that vegemite goes deliciously well with cheese in a sandwich or toasted.

[Inky]

My step mother was an Aussie...or that is, STILL is an Aussie...actually, she's the bitch from hell requiring a voodoo priestess....er...

where was I?

Oh. Vegemite...with swiss...or even cream cheese...and cucumbers...on french bread...and a glass of red wine...hell, served by Hugh Jackman would complete the perfection of THIS moment!


Tha' dingo stole mah baybay!



*ducks from Jo*

[qwerty]

If I came across those initials, in whatever form, it wouldn't mean a thing to me. Sure, I know about peanut butter and jelly sarnies, but the set of initials on offer would leave me flummoxed.

Suppose it's a bit like saying BOT instead of Bovril on toast. Or MS for Marmite soldiers.

An American isn't expected to understand those, and a non-American is unlikely to understand PB&J

[Inky]

yeah, I guess it kinda goes along with 'sammich'.
can't tell you how many reps I received that sammich is spelled sandwich and that I should take the time to google words I'm not sure how to spell.

there were a COUPLE of words I googled after THAT rep notice....but I'll save the details for the Comedy Cabaret Loons...

[Mumut]

I suppose if the original Australians talk about WGs we'd all realise it was witchetty grubs. On toast or au naturelle. I know about peanut butter and jelly but I wonder if it is eaten anywhere outside USA or by non US people.

[Inky]

Hell no! When I'm abroad, I don't reach for PB&J....I go crack-crazy for FISH & CHIPS!!!

[CaroGirl]

I know what it is. I eat it, make it, and say it, but I don't use the short version. I say the whole thing: peanut butter and jelly sandwich (yes, jelly, even though we use also use jam). What do you want for lunch, PB&J, KFC or McD's?

I don't think you need footnotes for this kind of thing because foreign readers can usually get an idea by the context and, if they can't, it probably doesn't matter much. I read an entire British novel featuring "flapjacks" without having a clue about what they actually are. I'm still a little hazy since I've never seen one, let alone eaten one.

[Inky]

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/customavatars/avatar6435_30.gif (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/member.php?u=6435)

This needs to be moved to the Erotica Forum....


just sayin'....


it kinda made mi' toes curl...:e2brows:

[CaroGirl]

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/customavatars/avatar6435_30.gif (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/member.php?u=6435)

This needs to be moved to the Erotica Forum....


just sayin'....


it kinda made mi' toes curl...:e2brows:
:tongue
You never know what can happen at the cottage. A couple of glasses of red wine and a can of squirty cream...

[maestrowork]

It's interesting. I don't think of explaining acronyms or initials. Like someone said, Stephen King doesn't explain his either. With formal writing, I would use parenthesis: "He used to work for the NSA (National Security Agency)." But with fiction, unless it's a really important piece of information and the acronym is not well-known or at least googleable, I won't explain: "He was in ROTC while attending UCLA."

I was reading a British book and it mentioned RASC and RAMC and RAF and GHQ. Within context, I knew they were military units and terms, and it didn't slow me down. If I wanted to know what exactly RAF meant, I could find the explanation later, but it's not essential to me, while reading, to know, and I would have HATED for the author or character to stop and explain to me.

Same with PB&J: within context, we know it's some kind of food. To me, if it's appropriate for the character or narrator to say PB&J instead of peanut butter and jelly, then use it. In my short I kind of cheated:

I made him a PB&J sandwich, crust off, and more peanut than jelly.

[Jo]

Inky (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/member.php?u=2515)
Blame Jo...

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/customavatars/avatar2515_146.gif (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/member.php?u=2515)

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Tha' dingo stole mah baybay! *ducks from boomerangs*
Posts: 5,478
*taps foot*

You stinker. You'll keep.

Like a bucket of prawns in the hot sun. :Sun:

[pdr]

I made him a PB&J sandwich, crust off, and more peanut than jelly.

that is acceptable, because you give the readers enough clues. That's not cheating, it's good writing.

'I ate a PB&J' could mean anything!

And I still have people unable to tell me what Harper Lee's scuppernogs were.
I even asked on this forum and people said they thought they were little wild grapes.

We've had the flapjack conversation before but to reiterate, it's a slice, a sweet soft yummy thing made of oats and golden syrup, flour and a pinch of soda.

[Ms Hollands]

I made him a PB&J sandwich, crust off, and more peanut than jelly.

that is acceptable, because you give the readers enough clues. That's not cheating, it's good writing.

'I ate a PB&J' could mean anything!

And I still have people unable to tell me what Harper Lee's scuppernogs were.
I even asked on this forum and people said they thought they were little wild grapes.

We've had the flapjack conversation before but to reiterate, it's a slice, a sweet soft yummy thing made of oats and golden syrup, flour and a pinch of soda.

What he said about the not cheating bit. I'm going through that with the odd French phrase in my book (one of my characters is French and chucks the odd bit of under-his-breath French in front of my main character etc.). Hard to do, but I don't expect all my readers to speak French so I'd prefer to help them out with condescending to them by explaining it completely either. A tough balance.

I do NOT, however, agree that flapjacks are a sweet soft yummy thing: they are a bit lump of sugar and fat with very little taste! Give me a chocolate-covered waffle any day (or just about anything else actually).

[qwerty]

What he said about the not cheating bit. I'm going through that with the odd French phrase in my book (one of my characters is French and chucks the odd bit of under-his-breath French in front of my main character etc.). Hard to do, but I don't expect all my readers to speak French so I'd prefer to help them out with condescending to them by explaining it completely either. A tough balance.


I think you meant: help them out withOut condescending . . .?

In one of my books, I have an English lady living in France who speaks some French and has a French neighbour who speaks some English. They hold Franglais conversations. By working out the French words her neighbour has said, the English one sort of translates in her response.

Jeez, I hope I got it over clearer in my book than I just did here!

As for flapjacks - no comment.

[RedScylla]

Thanks all! As the narrator of the book is an Okie, I expect there will be some things that will be a bit strange even to non-Okie Americans, but I'm glad to know that PB&J seems like an appropriate abbreviation for the sandwich.

[ideagirl]

If I came across those initials, in whatever form, it wouldn't mean a thing to me. Sure, I know about peanut butter and jelly sarnies, but the set of initials on offer would leave me flummoxed.


In which case you would either understand from context that it was some kind of sandwich, or at least some kind of snack; and if you cared to know more, there's always google.

I would find it offputting if an author explained things like that--it takes you out of the story. Like, "am I reading a novel or an encyclopedia?!?"

[maestrowork]

"am I reading a novel or an encyclopedia?!?"

Wouldn't it funny if the author writes:

She decided to order some gnocchi, which is the Italian name for a variety of thick, soft noodle or dumpling. They may be made from potato, semolina, ordinary wheat flour, bread crumbs, or other ingredients. Outside Italy, "gnocci" generally refers specifically to the kind made from potato, and with uniform shape. The irregular kind, regardless of ingredients, is known by numerous other names, including halušky and spätzle. Gnocchi are widely available dried, frozen, or fresh in vacuum sealed packages in supermarkets and Italian specialty stores. Classic accompaniments of gnocchi include tomato sauces, pesto, and melted butter (sometimes burnt butter) with cheese.

[RedScylla]

He proceeded to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, commonly known as a PB&J (pronounced pee-bee-n-jay). A North American snack frequently enjoyed by children and the poor, a PB&J is typically made of two slices of white bread, one slice spread with ground peanut paste and the other slice spread with one of a number of variety of high fructose fruit spreads known as jelly or jam. The most common combinations are crunchy peanut butter and grape jelly or smooth peanut butter and strawberry jam. Among certain connoisseurs of the PB&J, a sandwich with the bread crust removed is preferred.

Oh crap...I'm just procrastinating now. Thanks, maestro.

Wouldn't it funny if the author writes:

She decided to order some gnocchi, which is the Italian name for a variety of thick, soft noodle or dumpling. They may be made from potato, semolina, ordinary wheat flour, bread crumbs, or other ingredients. Outside Italy, "gnocci" generally refers specifically to the kind made from potato, and with uniform shape. The irregular kind, regardless of ingredients, is known by numerous other names, including halušky and spätzle. Gnocchi are widely available dried, frozen, or fresh in vacuum sealed packages in supermarkets and Italian specialty stores. Classic accompaniments of gnocchi include tomato sauces, pesto, and melted butter (sometimes burnt butter) with cheese.