How do u get represented?

[Englishmaninhouston]

Been writing for about a year, and have always wondered how to get an agent? I know that the only way cannot be competitions.

[zagoraz]

I don't speak from experience, because I don't have an agent. But the best advice I know to give is to not worry about getting an agent and write the best screenplays you can. How many have you written? You've been writing a year, you say. So you've got what, one or two screenplays under your belt? I've been writing screenplays on and off for five years (I'm 26), and I just finished my 5th full-length. This is the first one that I would even consider anyone in the business looking at. Your first script is going to be unreadable. Your second is going to be really bad. Your third might show some promise. Your fourth or fifth might be good. This is just from my experience. Read "The Writer's Guide to Selling Your Screenplay" by Cynthia Whitcomb. She didn't get representation until her 12th script, and even IT never saw the light of day. But she has made millions writing TV movies and such on assignment, and her book is really insightful.

Screenplay competitions aren't necessarily going to get you anywhere, but they are a good litmus test of your talent. Make the second round on one of the big ones and it at least gives you some motivation to keep writing.

Just a few thoughts.

Good luck,

Scott

[IWrite]

English - it is very hard to get an agent.

It's much easier to get your work read, if you know people in the industry (or know people who know people). If you don't, you gotta do it the old-fashioned way.

The WGA has a list online of agents that are guild signatories. The list desginates which agents will accept queries. Go through the list and start querying. Make sure you have a killer logline and a great query. If you don't know what a logline is - you've got some research to do.

There are also companies that will serve as a middleman to get your stuff to agents - i.e. script shark. They only take on the scripts that they feel are really good and commercial - they charge for their services.

There are also pitch festivals - where you can pitch one-on-one to agents and producers. It's a cattle call scenario, but you can get read if you have a good pitch that connects with the agent or producer. Most of these are held in LA, but occasionally you'll find them in other places. Writer's often fly in from all over the country to attend these events.

Chances are if you've only been writing a year - you are quite a ways away from being agent- ready. Having a well written, commercial script is the most crucial element. Without it you are wasting your money and spinning your wheels.

[randesq]

only your recipe. I've torpedoed too many contacts by sending out premature material. I may even be gunshy, but getting better everyday. Because you can turn on a fastball thrown by the only kid in 5th grade with hair under his armpits doesn't mean you can hit a Johnson slider.

Write three scripts then worry about it for a hiccup, then write three more.

Don't know any chef in any restaurant on any continent that became profficient by following another's recipes. Experiment, find what works, understand where you can improve and keep building a method. So, you write a decent script, maybe even great - you still have to write another. Sure, one just might write that script that sings, but you'll always get what else.

I would bet that when finished with your first spec, you'll write a second and then realize what a disaster that first one is. And this cycle will repeat - but by all means exhaust yourself in finding good critical reads so you can improve.

[fedorable1]

In the movie Miracle, Kurt Russell once said:

"I'm not looking for the best players. I'm looking for the right ones."

The same holds true for scripts. Even a truly exceptional script may go unnoticed or unproduced simply because people may not be interested in that particular script at that particular time.

Write several scripts - I'd say 5-7 - and then start pitching to agents. Send a query letter first describing the synopsis, logline, genre, etc. Politely and maturely ask if the agent would like to read your script, and explain why they should. Don't joke or pal around with an agent you don't know - it can make you look pretty amateur.

Another thing: Do your research. Find out which agents deal with work in your particular genre, and which have actually done anything. Mention your accomplishments - if any - and praise the agent's work or clients.

If you want a particular actor(ess) to read your script, mention that immediately. I do NOT recommend saying something like "I think that you would enjoy this script. Perhaps your client, XXXX XXXXXX, would be interested in reading it as well." If you specifically want the actor(ress) to read it, say something more like "I have a script that XXXX XXXXXX may take an interest in reading. Given his/her recent work in That Movie and That Other Movie, the script is suited well to his/her style."

Just a thought.

[IWrite]

If you want a particular actor(ess) to read your script, mention that immediately.

I don't recommend doing this for a number of reasons.

Most agents specialize - few literary agents rep actors as well. Although the bigger talent agencies rep both and they do package projects - it's not something that should be brought up in a query.

This is a town that runs on egos - you don't want an agent you're approaching to think that you want them because they have access to a particular actor - you want them to think you are approaching them because of who they are.

You don't want to sound like you have pipe dreams that Tom Cruise will star in your first script. This rarely happens, so to put this in a query - might suggest that you really don't understand how things work (i.e. that you probably won't sell your spec even if you do get signed by an agent).

You probably won't have much luck if you approach an actor's agent directly, solely for the purpose of getting your script read by the actor. The bigger the name, the more scripts that are thrown their way. Their agents are flooded with scripts submitted by producers and casting directors. Agents don't normally want to waste their own or their client's time reading unsold scripts. It may happen, but the odds are against you.

You are far better off sending queries directly to production companies set-up by actors. Many actors have their own production cos. and are actively seeking projects to develop.

Your query should be about you, your spec and the agent you are approaching. No more, no less.

[jartoon]

Zagoraz, that comment about not having a decent script until someone has written their 5th script is both innaccurate and depressing. I am directing my first feature script (shooting on 35mm film 4 weeks from now with a 30 person crew). I wrote it in highschool with absolutely no experience in anything even related to screenwriting.

What I'm saying is that your first good screenplay will come when you get your first good, ORIGINAL idea. It might be the first one you write or it might never happen, but if you've written 5 screenplays and wouldnt consider showing a single one to anyone in the industry, you might want to consider another career/hobby. As far as selling a spec script, its all about ORIGINALITY. The more off-the-wall original the script is, the more likely it is to be noticed (as long as it's still appealing to people in it's weirdness). An incredibly well written script about a topic that has been covered over and over and over will not get you noticed.

As far as representation goes- You get represented when an agent thinks you can make him or her money. That means, write a great script that you can sell, and you get representation. That's all there is to it. People tend to overthink this industry quite a bit. If you have the talent, and you have a way in (like a friend of a friend of a friend who works for a talent agency, and with enough networking research most people can find SOMETHING like that), you are on the right path.

The last thing that I will say is that if you have even the slightest interest in directing, try to gather the funds to shoot your own script. Write a low-budget script and shoot on super-16 for under $20,000. That's how Kevin Smith started out, and while it took some luck, he got there mainly by working his tail off to make his movie and get his movie seen by the right people. Now, if he wanted to just write for the rest of his career he could do it, just like you all want to do.

Best of luck.

[Joe Calabrese]

Jartoon.

Congratulations on your success and I wish nothing but the best in your endeavor. However, writing and directing your first project is an rarity in this business. Not to sound depressing, but most micro-budget films by first time filmmakers never make it to the theatre and fewer still onto DVD. I know so many guys shopping their finished film to distributors. For those who don't have the money or power to make their own work, spec scripts are the only way to go.

And although there are the several (I am being kind) 1st time scripts that are exceptional, the reality is that it takes time to develop the skill and the talent to write a successful script. 5 scripts is conservative. Most say 10 and not over a lifetime but one every 5 to 6 months. If it takes longer for you to write a script, then you don't belong in the business. Rewrites happen in weeks and even days. What producer would want to work with a guy (or gal) who took six years to write 120 pages? What What agent would want to rep a person who may only sell one more script in his lifetime?

Even the best script in the world takes time and effort to get read. American Beauty was passed and rejected for years, The tv show ER was dead for over a decade. So, expecting that a great script will get you repped is conditional at best. Bottom line is you need to write a script that is marketable and a stand out from the rest. Not something so out there though. Familiar but fresh is the industry buzz phrase. It needs to resonate with people but offer a fresh perspective or angle that makes it unique. Once you do that, which takes a while to write to that level, shop it to any and all who are willing to read it.

I got a manager from a competition win, he loved that script and signed me on, but he's having trouble selling it or getting an agent to co-rep. So, I write more and he pitches those too.. It's a numbers game. The more you have to offer the more likely you will get a rep and get that sale.

I used to direct and I am happy now just writing. The hours are better and the politics of filmmaking are less involved with me now.

Some people write not just because they can't or won't direct their own stuff. Some people, like me truly enjoy only working with the page.

As for the poster's original question. Write and write some more. Keep an open eye and ear to what the industry is looking for and pitch to every agent, manager and production exec who likes and deals with the same stuff your writing. Agents will not rep you only if you have a marketable script. They will only do so if they also like what you wrote. Don't confuse the two. Many agents do not have the time to take on new clients and will not waste that time for a one time quick sale. If they take you on they want to see a developed career and not a one shot wonder.

So, yes. people get agents all the time. Competitions is one small way, but the best and only tried and true way is to pound the pavement and query all of them.

Sorry I ranted so vigorously. I didn't have enough coffee today. My words are meant as suggestive opinion based on personal experience and should not be considered the gospel. To each his won way.

:Soapbox:

[IWrite]

Zagoraz, that comment about not having a decent script until someone has written their 5th script is both innaccurate and depressing.

It may be depressing - but it is extremely accurate. Of course there are exceptions, of course some hit it on their first or second script - but those instances are very, very rare. The fact is takes quite some time to learn the craft - and most people do not learn it until they've got several scripts under their belt.

What I'm saying is that your first good screenplay will come when you get your first good, ORIGINAL idea.

This is utterly false. An original idea that is poorly written is still a lousy script. Execution matters just as much - if not more - than originality. And a derivative idea that is executed well often gets bought and made - just check the weekly B.O. charts. Fresh but familiar is the refrain in Hollywood. The Charlie Kaufman's are sadly few and far between. Put an original spin on a tried and true story - and you will have something commercially viable.

The last thing that I will say is that if you have even the slightest interest in directing, try to gather the funds to shoot your own script. Write a low-budget script and shoot on super-16 for under $20,000. That's how Kevin Smith started out,

Again, very misleading - for every Kevin Smith - there's hundreds or thousands of wannabe directors who throw their own money (or other people's) into a micro budget production - that gets absolutely nowhere. I'm not saying you shouldn't do it - I'm just saying you need to be realistic about the odds. Most low-budget festival entries never get distribution and don't lead to directing or writing gigs - most low-budget festival submissions - are rejected from the festivals.

The fact is that it's a very, very, very tough business to break into and if you are not prepared for that reality - the frustration and rejection - you'd better think twice about pursuing a film career at all.

[zagoraz]

Jartoon,

Your comments come off as somewhat uninformed.

"What I'm saying is that your first good screenplay will come when you get your first good, ORIGINAL idea. "

This couldn't be any more wrong. You might have the best idea in the world but if you don't know how to write it's going to turn out horribly. That's just common sense.

"It might be the first one you write or it might never happen, but if you've written 5 screenplays and wouldnt consider showing a single one to anyone in the industry, you might want to consider another career/hobby."

That is really bad advice. You can't just send out the first crap you throw together and call a screenplay, because by the time you have a decent script no one will want to read it. You'll have burned too many bridges.

My comments my be inaccurate and depressing in your opinion, but for the majority of writers, that is the case. Writing quality material takes time, practice and repetition. Maybe your script is exceptional. Maybe your film will make it into Sundance and there will be a bidding war over it. You're taking your fate into your own hands by putting your idea on celluloid. Your putting your money where your mouth is. That's honorable. That's ballsy.

But that doesn't make you the next Kevin Smith. He had written multiple plays and screenplays (including a rough draft of Dogma) BEFORE he wrote Clerks. He also attended the first half of the Vancouver Film School program where he wrote and directed a short film BEFORE coming home to write 'Clerks.'

Good luck with your film. You should post some pages on the critique board. I'd like to check it out.

Scott

[Joe Calabrese]

Jarrett C Slavin.
Although you may have written your script in Highschool, you are working on a degree at UMichigan as a film major, so I assume you took a screenwriting course or at the least have studied film. You did make the short film "Death Before Dishonor: Thief's Theme I" so, you have some practical experience as a filmmaker. To make it sound like you don't know anything but made it despite of it, is a bit misleading. I wonder if you would be making a film if you didn't have those experiences under your belt?

Whether you write a dozen scripts or take a few courses, you need some experience and knowledge before taking the leap.

[Optimus]

I can't believe a writer just typed, "You may have wrote your script..."


WRITTEN, buddy.


Written.

Sorry, Joe. But I'm gonna have to "pass."

[Joe Calabrese]

I stand corrected. That's what I get for adding "may have" during an edit and not reading the sentence. Me bad...

[JustinoXXV]

Well, I don't think there's any one way into the industry. I basically just recommend doing your research and determing what is the best path for you. And just asking questions on this board isn't research. Read books, talk to bona fide industry professions, talk to struggling artists in LA, NY, and London, do a variety of things.

"Again, very misleading - for every Kevin Smith - there's hundreds or thousands of wannabe directors who throw their own money (or other people's) into a micro budget production - that gets absolutely nowhere."

I've known a million of these. And yes, I've known people who weren't even able to get into a festival, as well as others shown at festivals who never got distribution. This isn't meant to discourage anyone from doing this, but IWrite and Joe are correct in say this is far from a foolproof way of getting into the industry. No one way is surefire.

[Optimus]

How do u get represented?

Indeed.

[write4details]

Oh yeah, that question.

Answer is: nobody reall knows. At most they know what worked for them.

There is no number of scripts you have to write in order to hit the good one, but you shouldn't bother agents until you have at least three you can show them. It's going to be one of the first things they ask.

Shooting one's own film does not mean that one has produced a decent scipt, much less know how to sell one. But it can be a resume item. Wining contests can be a resume item. Being "Script of the Month" on Triggerstreet or Zoetrope is something.

Once you are ready, start wracking your brain for people who can help you. Do you know nobody who knows an agent? Oddly, most people do. Anything smacking of referral is a big help.

I would simulataneously probe agents and small production companies. There is nothing like having somebody wanting your script to motivate people to represent you.

Good luck

[JustinoXXV]

"There is no number of scripts you have to write in order to hit the good one, but you shouldn't bother agents until you have at least three you can show them. It's going to be one of the first things they ask."

There have been cases when people who went to good screenwriting programs had their professors take such interest in the Final Draft of their first script that they made industry recommendations for them.

That isn't all, or even most cases, obviously. But it's why I do think we should all shy away from massive generalizations, because everyone is different. Some people may have learned how to properly write with their first script.

Nia Vardolos, because of industry interest in her play, My Big Fat Greek Wedding, sold her first script, My Big Fat Greek Wedding.

[clockwork]

I know this is going to sound dull but I landed my agent the old-fashioned way; with query letters and lots of them. I sent out around fifty to sixty in all over a period of at least four or five years and finally got interest when an agent asked to read a script I'd told him about. It didn't happen right away, they wanted to read more examples to make sure I wasn't fluking it but finally they decided to sign me on earlier this year.

Some people say it's about who you know and in many cases that's true but I'd say it's more like... 1% what you know, 1% who you know and 98% how badly you want it. That makes a hundred, right..?

And like everyone else is saying, you've got to keep writing whatever happens.

[JustinoXXV]

That doesn't sound dull at all, Clock. If it worked for you, that's GREAT.

[clockwork]

Thanks Justino. I know, it's not dull really. It's just a lot of writers I know who are looking for agents assume that I must have done something dramatic like extorting representation out of an agent because query letters aren't working for them. I'm not smart enough for that!

[IWrite]

Dominic -

Please, please PLEASE tell me you did not tell the agents in your query that you "hit it out of the park" or that they would be "blown away" or anything else that made it sound like you were remotely tooting your own horn.

Also please tell me you did do research on how to write a query and that you had a really strong logline.

[JustinoXXV]

"Please, please PLEASE tell me you did not tell the agents in your query that you "hit it out of the park" or that they would be "blown away" or anything else that made it sound like you were remotely tooting your own horn.

Also please tell me you did do research on how to write a query and that you had a really strong logline."

You are just god's gift to screenwriters, IWrite. Not!

You assume, IWrite, that someone's queries you've never even seen is an idiot. I think your tone towards Dominic is almost insulting.

CHILL, DUDE.

First of all, everyone I've ever met in the industry in Los Angeles would not even suggest you try to find an agent via queries. As hard as it is to get a producer to read a script from an unknown person, it's going to be that much harder to get an agent from a major agency.

Even if the query letter is TOTALLY written by the book, the agency still has to accept unsolicited materials (some don't), they have to be taking in new clients (at times agents might not take on new clients), they have to love your material, and they have to think it is commercial enough for them to sell.

This doesn't mean you should send off queries, but it's not going to be easy. And I've never heard of anyone sending off 30 queries and just gaining representation outright.

Before you say it's the writer's responsiblity to do all this research, I might add that a writer on the outside will never be in the know like an industry insider. The best a writer on outside can do is read trade magazines, buy certain books or subscribe to certain websites. But by the time these sources distribute information it may already be old news.

[IWrite]

Justino - It is often unwise to make a statement when you don't have all the facts. Especially when the statement you make is insulting, arrogant, rude and smarmy.

Dominic made those comments I said I hoped he didn't make to agents on another thread on this board. And the fact is his writing is so good and so strong that I didn't want him to turn off agents at the query stage. And the fact remains that the best way in or not, the vast majority of writers have no other way in but the query. So they better learn to perfect them. And incidentally production companies require queries as well.

Like it or not Justino, I know more than you do about the things that I know more than you do. And like it or not I know a hell of a lot about story development, structure and character - and a thing or two about the business end as well.

I give feedback here to help. People can either take it or leave it. But you don't have to worry about me giving you advice or feedback, 'cause I'm not about to waste my time helping someone who obviously has so little respect for me.

So you go on and keep telling people that querying doesn't work - and I'll keep telling them how the business works and helping them become better writers.

[JustinoXXV]

"Like it or not Justino, I know more than you do about the things that I know more than you do. And like it or not I know a hell of a lot about story development, structure and character - and a thing or two about the business end as well."

I'm not claiming to know more than anyone here. I'm not trying to make myself look big or look like anything. I am dismissing anyone who claims to know everything. Because no one does.

And in my latest post I didn't say that queries don't work. At no point did I mean to discourage people from querying. I said this to say that just because a person sent out 30 queries and got no agent representation doesn't mean he or she wrote crappy queries.

I did give a whole list of very valid reasons why queries may be rejected, even if they are well written.

I'll recap them for you.

The agency doesn't accept any unsolicited materials.

At the moment, the agency isn't taking on new clients.

They simply don't like your concept.

Or they do like your concept, but they don't think it can sell.


With that said, I don't know what anyone's queries are like here, and I'm not judging them. There's no need for me to jump to conclusions about work I haven't even seen. And I think that's what you did in your last post. You assumed because 30 queries hadn't gotten this person an agent that he must have done something wrong. And that's not necessarily the case.

If you really want to help beginners, perhaps you're in need of an attitude adjustment. Because I think your so called desire to help seems to be driven by a massive ego. Not by any actual concern or empathy for writers.

Did you offer to read over that poster's letter to see if in fact he really did have a poorly written query? No. You sounded like you were slamming him (ah, you idiot, how dare you submit a poorly written query)

[Joe Calabrese]

Let's keep our cool guys. Things have been rough today.

[IWrite]

"There's no need for me to jump to conclusions about work I haven't even seen. And I think that's what you did in your last post. You assumed because 30 queries hadn't gotten this person an agent that he must have done something wrong.

No Justino that is not the case. When I gave him positive feedback about the scenes he posted - he started tooting his own horn to me about how it would "blow me away" and I hoped that he wasn't stupid enough to do the same off these boards as well because it is an unbelievable turn-off. Apparently he's not that stupid - which is fortunate for him.

You jumped to conclusions because it gave you an opportunity to attack me personally and now you've taken the opportunity to do it again. And I really don't appreciate it.

If you sincerely believe that what I have contributed here has not in fact been helpful then I can only conclude that you know very little about how Hollywood really functions and even less about the art of screenwriting.

[JustinoXXV]

"If you sincerely believe that what I have contributed here has not in fact been helpful then I can only conclude that you know very little about how Hollywood really functions and even less about the art of screenwriting."


I don't know who you are, or what production company you work at. Care to share some names?

That would boost your credibility. All of the novelists on other parts of this forum who say they are published use their real names, and we can see and buy their books. Jenna, the owner of this site, users her real name.

So who are you? Because anyone can claim anything under a false name.

These internet forums, over the years, have had people claim total expertise. Most of them have turned out to be people like Maia, who at best wrote porn movies (besides, that, everything she knew was from various books and articles, no real industry experience).

So to be fare to those people you want to help, you should tell them who you are. Because anyone can claim to be working in any capacity in the industry. Whether they are what they claim to be, is an entirely different story.

Joe, I think I've made my point in this post, and I do think it was a valid one. Even you use your real name, and we know exactly who we're dealing with if we come to you for advice. I'm truly sorry for your rough week and as I don't know what's going on here with these deleted threads, this is my last comment on this particular matter.

[Joe Calabrese]

Justino, you are a classic "doubting thomas." That's not a bad thing, but here, we should respect his privacy and anonymity.

Sure, knowing who IWrite really is would settle a few things but you can always say "Well, your not at Warners, so what do you know." or "Never heard of that company."

There may be no pleasing in the answer.

Besides, whether or not he is a Dev Exec doesn't change the fact that his advice is usually sound and appreciated.

[IWrite]

Justino -

I choose not to use my real name for two reasons -

A - i don't want to be inundated with queries and submissions, and anytime I have ever appeared on a panel or anything I have been - not because I'm anything special - but because of the producer I work for and the job that I do.

B - I am brutally honest on this site - and I feel it would not be fair to the producer I work for - as my opinions are my own - and when you work for someone else - you end up representing your employer even when you are not technically working. I don't want the person who hands me a very nice paycheck to be tainted by my sometimes abrasive manner. It's not fair to do so and I won't. And anyone who chooses to be skeptical because I post anonymously, is entitled to that skepticism. To parphrase William Goldman no one in this business knows anything anyway.

I must admit I cannot remember you ever suggesting that any information I have posted on this board has been incorrect. You have only questioned my style and perhaps my opinions once or twice - but never my facts. If my memory is in error - please set me straight.

[JustinoXXV]

"I must admit I cannot remember you ever suggesting that any information I have posted on this board has been incorrect. You have only questioned my style and perhaps my opinions once or twice - but never my facts. If my memory is in error - please set me straight."

Your memory is correct.

[Optimus]

If you sincerely believe that what I have contributed here has not in fact been helpful then I can only conclude that you know very little about how Hollywood really functions and even less about the art of screenwriting.

Hell, IWrite. I agree.

[JustinoXXV]

"Hell, IWrite. I agree."

Let's all agree to disagree.

[Joe Calabrese]

As you guys can see. I will start putting words in your mouth if you keep acting like children. Deleting the posts, don't seem to do the trick. I promise I will never do it for legitimate posts, just the childish bantor.

[Jamesaritchie]

I'm hardly an expert on screenwriting, and my sole credentials in this area is having written three screenplays, a couple of TV scripts, getting options on two, plus finding representation, and knowing some selling screen writers well enough to hash things over with them.

But my experience is that the first script may be every bit as good as the fiftieth, and may even be better. Not everyone improves with production.
Unless your first, second, third, and fourth script is read by someone who really knows what it is that makes a screenplay marketable, and who will give you feedback, I don't think there's any reason at all to believe your fifth screenplay will be any better than the first.

You do improve by writing, but only if you know where you were making mistakes in earlier screenplays. You can't correct mistakes you don't know you made. Without proper feedback form the right people, bad is most likely to remain bad, no matter how many screenplays you write.

My experience also says there is no right way of going about finding representation, or of getting your screenplay into the hands of the right person. What works easily for one writer may not work at all for another.

I'm not sure I've ever seen an original idea, but I do think the idea is more important than the writing. Outside of dialogue, I don't think the writing has to be great, or even above mediocre, as long as the idea is right, and as long as the screenplay presents a story a director/producer/actor thinks he can work with.

No one I've ever met enjoys reading screenplays. I agree. The best screenplay I've ever read bored me to tears. But if the idea is right, if the story is right, and if the characters come across right, the reader can get excited by what that screenplay can become. Not by what it is or how it's written, but by the potential.

Screenplays not only can be rewritten and doctored, it's almost 100% that a produced screenplay has been rewritten two or three times, and doctored besides. The screenplay the movie is actually made from may not have three original sentences left in it. It may not have a single original sentence left in it.

My experience tells me it's far more important to get the right kind of screenplay in the hands of the right person at the right time than it is to write a great screenplay.

Who you know IS important, and if you don't know anyone, your ability to get to know people can count for considerably more than your ability to write well. When you know someone, that person is far more likely to spend time on you and with you, and is almost always willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. It's tough to get anything read by anyone who matters when you're out in the cold. I've found it's easy to get read when you know, or get to know, the right people.

The Hollywood screenwriting world is a very small place. Darned few movies are made each year, and there must be tens of thousands of screenplays for each one actually made into a movie. Again from my experience, you can almost count the successful screenplay writers who get in each year without knowing someone on the fingers of one foot. It happens, but I'd rather bet on someone from Hawaii winning an igloo building contest.

Early on, I broke all the rules. Now, I haven't sold a TV script, but I think I would have had the show not been cancelled. I was told I would have by the producer, so that's good enough for me. I did get the chance to write the script by calling a producer out of the blue and giving good phone. He'd never heard of me, I had nothing to sell myself except the ability to talk well and pleasantly over the phone. That was enough. He liked what I had to say, and how I said it, and said, "Okay, show me what you can do."

Calling people you don't know out of the blue is almost always thought of as a bad thing, and far more often than not, it is. But I knew I work well over the phone, and I knew how to come across without sounding either amateurish or egotistical. I knew what to ask for, what not to ask for, and how to to ask. And I knew that if you can make them laugh, you'll probably get a nibble, if not a bite.

I "cheated" in getting representation. From my second agent through this one, I've always made certain the agent who sells my novels also has Hollywood connections. If you can sell novels, or short stories, or if you in any way, shape or form, work in teh New York TV, stage, or even advertising world, you can backdoor your way into Hollywood, and many, many screenwriters get from Harrisburg to Hollywood just this way. Having the right agent is even more important in Hollowood than in New York, and the right agent is truly tough for someone on the outside to land.

Again solely form my experience, I see way too much emphais placed on such things as Final Draft, format, and proper binding. About half the selling screenwriters I know hate Final Draft, screw up some aspect of format everytime, and bind "close enough."

Yes, format is important, but trust me on this, no one is going to count your spaces, no one who matters is going to toss your screenplay because you forgot to capitalize a character's name, or hold their nose because you used the wrong size brad. And if you're that worried about format, it costs about a hundred bucks to have someone put your screenplay in absolutely perfect format, and to bind it properly.

Buy Final Draft if it makes life easier for you, but it is NOT a requirement. I know selling screenwriters who use manual typewriters, who write in longhand, and who use MS Word. Once the thing is on paper, no one will know or care how you wrote it, or what program you used in the process.

Far more often than not, in fact, when I've had someone ask to see a screenplay, they told me to send it along as an MS Word file.

Again, all this is just from my experience, and your milage may vary greatly. But, lastly, I'll say this. Froim my experience, leaving out those who are simply horrible writers and who lack all imagination, most screenwriters fail not because of the way they write, not because of format, not because of this or that or the other, but because (1.) they don't know anyone who matters, and don't make the effort to get to know anyone who matters. (2.) Fail to get proper feedback on every screenplay they write so the next one will be better.

Talent and perserverance are great things, and you need a degree of both, but alone both are worthless.

[IWrite]

Hey James -

You make some good points. There is no one way or right way to break in. And you don't need Final Draft. Even after I had my first writing gig I continued to use Word. I customized my function keys and automated my style sheets and it was a breeze - the only thing that was a pain in the ass - and it was a HUGE pain in the ass, was reformatting the page breaks and manually adding the Cont'ds at the top of pages for dialgoue passages that broke in the middle. I only got Movie Magic when I had no choice - I was doing a rewrite on a script that was in Movie Magic and the producer wanted the rewrite in it as well. To be honest I still miss my word style sheets sometimes - but I do not miss redoing my page breaks for every freaking draft.

If your writing specs - there's no need to invest in screenwriting software. Personaly, I'd take that $250 or whatever and investing in a seminar, a workshop - or some type of pitching event.

Then again, James you said some things that rubbed the Development Exec in me the wrong way, because it kinda sounds like you are implying that certain things don't matter.

quote:
"Outside of dialogue, I don't think the writing has to be great, or even above mediocre".

This is the single greatest misnomer. ALL the writing should be great. The descriptions should pop. The flow and tone of the script should reflect the genre of the story. If it's a thriller, the script should be suspenseful - and this comes as much from the descriptions as the dialogue (actually moreso) If it's a comedy the script should be funny. Not just the dialogue, not just the action of someone slipping on a banana peel - but the way you describe the person slipping on that peel. A well written script - IS a great read. A poorly written script is not. In some ways it's probably much harder to write a great script than a novel - because you must convey tone without the benefit of lengthy detailed descriptions or being able to access the thoughts of your characters. From my own experience and every person I have ever talked to in this business - if a script is not engrossing it almost always gets a pass. The rare exception to that is when the idea itself is truly high concept.

And although scripts are rewritten once optioned or sold - that does not mean it's okay to submit something that isn't as good as you can possibly make it - the competition is fierce.

As for things like brads, et. al. When you submit a script bound any other way - it says that you didn't care enough to spend 30 seconds googling to find out proper script guidelines. There is a reason that brads are the industrly norm (just like there are reasons manuscripts are sent unbound) and that is because scripts are often copied. Something spiral bound or vela bound is a pain in the ass to copy. I don't want my intern being at the copy machine for an hour copying the damn thing a page at a time. A binder is heavier and takes up too much space on my stack - and yes your script is going in a stack - and yes I'm going to have to shlep them home - and no I don't want the extra weight of binders. As for the size brads - if they are too small, they tend to come undone when you open and close the script. If they're too long - the tips peek out beyond the edge the script and they tend to get stuck on things and stab things (like fingers).

Yes, I'll still read a script that isn't bound probably - but your already starting off with a checkmark in the "shmuck" column. Nice first impression. It isn't difficult to format properly, it's easy to find out the proper formatting in this cyber age - so there's really no excuse not to. The fact is when you submit a script - you're accepting an invitation into my tea house - take off your damn shoes when you walk in the door.

[JustinoXXV]

For those of you who don't yet want to buy Final Draft or a similiar screenwriting program, you can find screenwriting templates and add ones to format your screenplays in Microsoft Word.

Whenever I've been asked to submit scripts electronically, I've been asked to do fdr(Final Draft), word, and rft (any program should be able to read rft).

If a script is mediocre, chances are the intern will just give the script a pass recommendation like they do most scripts.

Even if the concept is good, a script may still get a pass due to structural or formatting laws. And actually this very often happens.

[Joe Calabrese]

I was a reader for a year and this is based on my experience. I can't speak for other readers, agencies, producers, etc. But I feel that my experience is the norm in the system.

Imagine being a entry level clerk at the bank who's job all day is to go through a stack of thousands of loan payments and putting a rubber stamp of "paid" on each one. Sure, you got nothing better to do, so you look at them as you stamp them-- to see the names, addresses, even the signature styles. BUT after a while, you got to get home each day and feed the cat and eat dinner or you got a hot date. You get in the habit of going through each one, stamping "paid", after "paid" because that's what your job is.

That's what it's like to be a reader. I read hundreds upon hundreds of scripts at my time with the agency, sometimes twenty five a day. And I was told flat out to pass on away any that didn't meet their strictest of guidelines. One agent only wanted to hear about broad comedies, another horror. No one wanted to hear anything about a script that was wordy, tight or had lots of dialog. Formatting not so much, but after a while you got to know that a commonality was bad formatting = bad script.

So every day I passed and passed. After a while, I got so used to it I only flipped through on first pass to make my job easier.

So I would judge a book by it's cover.

I ONLY read fully those that passed the initial test. Does it look like a script? As I was reading, I asked myself "Am I bored yet?" Finally, I finished it and asked "Which boss would like it?"

When you submit to an agency and/or producer, chances are you'll get someone like me.

So you better make sure I don't find mistakes while in the flipping through stage. You better make sure the opening ten or so pages grab me and you better make it be so that I am compelled to turn each page, right until the end. Oh, and make sure you send it to someone who is looking for that kind of genre or story.

Otherwise, it gets a pass. I read quite a few scripts that were great but not the type my bosses wanted.

There is this fantasy of everyone in hollywood looking for the next big spec by a nobody. It aint true. Most agents have plenty of clients, most producers have connections with established writers and there is plenty of material already floating around. But the spec market exists for that "just in case" exception to what they already expect when getting a script by a newcomer.

[zagoraz]

So how did you get on board as a script reader? I'm planning on moving to L.A. at the end of the year and really giving a go at this whole deal. I'd take an entry level job as a reader in a heartbeat.

Scott

[Joe Calabrese]

Not sure what advice I can give. Few years back, I went back to college fulltime to finish my degree and got a summer intern position for a NYC agency through one of my professors, It then turned into a paying gig. My duties were to read cold queries sent and scripts requested-- and I make a mean cup of coffee too.

[IWrite]

You can send your resume to agencies and/or prod cos. It couldn't hurt, but I have to say that more often than not, these positions are filled by referrals. Of our last two interns - one was a referral and the other had been a PA on a pilot my producer shot. Occasionally we'll post for one at USC or UCLA - but we never place classified ads in the local papers or trades.

I do occasionally see people looking for interns on craigslist - so you might want to check that out as well - I can't vouch for who is looking for them there though. Anyone can put out a shingle, call themselves a producer and seek out free labor. You really want to find a company that is actually doing something so you'll really learn something valuable.

[JustinoXXV]

You can start off simply by sending your resume to various studios and production companies.

A good list (by no means total) is found at Done Deal. www.donedeal.com

A lot of entertainment industry jobs are found at

www.mandy.com

losangeles.craigslist.org

www.entertainmentjobs.com

I would suggest you check out these sites and book mark them. I've definitely gotten gigs and jobs off craigslist.

You might also check out the California Worksource center in Marina del Rey. Every Tuesday they have an entertainment networking event, and they list a lot of industry jobs there.

" Otherwise, it gets a pass. I read quite a few scripts that were great but not the type my bosses wanted.

There is this fantasy of everyone in hollywood looking for the next big spec by a nobody. It aint true. Most agents have plenty of clients, most producers have connections with established writers and there is plenty of material already floating around. But the spec market exists for that "just in case" exception to what they already expect when getting a script by a newcomer."

Bingo. Plenty of flawed scripts are rejected. But there will be plenty of good scripts that are were sent to the wrong place, and there's also an issue of the sheer numbers.

[Jamesaritchie]

It is absolutely true that a screenplay should look like a screenplay, but if you honestly count spaces, trust me, you're the first I've encountered, and the last I'd let read a screenplay. There are those in every area of writing who will reject things for minor nonsense. I don't need them, and they aren't the people I want one of my screenplays to go through. Entry level readers provide an extremely valuable service, but it's seldom one that benefits new writers. The first piece of advice I received was this: "If you really want to get anywhere with a screenplay, keep it out of the hands of entry level readers."

It's good advice.

An entry level reader has the power to reject, not to buy. He usually can't even pass it on to someone who has the power to buy. He can only pass it on to someone who can pass it on to someone else, who may or may not have the power to buy. There are sometimes a minimum of three people between an entry level reader and anyone who can actually say yes.

It's nice to say all the writing in a screenplay should be great, but I have yet to see many where this is the case.

If the writing has to be great to sell a screenplay, then why is it every screenplay I've seen sell has been rewritten until it's completely unrecognizable? If the writing was so great, why were hundreds of thousands of dollars spent to change every last sentence of the writing? Why is it that very often the original writer who managed to sell his screenplay can't go through the shooting script and find a single sentence he actually wrote?

The writing has to be competent, and that's all it has to be. The writing simply has to show the powers that be that a movie can be made from this screenplay. And some God-awful screenplays with God-awful writing sell every year, and some brilliantly written ones never, ever get turned into movies.

Even after a screenplay has sold, and even ever a small fortune was spent hiring others to rewrite the "great" prose, I've seen directors rwrite the darned thing again as they went along.

Screenplays are about the movie, not about the writing. Competent writing and a great idea beat brilliant writing and the wrong idea every last time. After a certain point, writing is writing is writing. It's dialogue and character and story that matter. You don't spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to rewrite great prose. There are only so many ways to write "The car crashes into the schoolbus and explodes." And of all the ways there are, I've found the best way is to write "The car crashes into the school bus and explodes."

[IWrite]

James -

I gotta admit I wish your latest post wasn't on this board, because I fear people may read it and think you are speaking from an actual real-world knowledge base on these matters - rather than a combination of opinion and andecotal personal experience.

Not ONE person on this board who has actual development experience said they count spaces or anything of the sort. What Joe said was that through the course of reading hundreds of actual submissions it became apparent that incorrect formatting usually went hand in hand with bad content. Considering it was his job to read the submissions, my guess is he has a better feel for whether this is accurate or not - and having read many bad scripts myself - I'll second that opinion. And once you get the idea that there is often a link between the two, you no longer want to waste your time giving the poorly formatted ones a shot - because the odds are against it being anything but awful.

Secondly - most people have no choice but to have scripts go through readers. At my company even a lot of the referred scripts and agent submissions go through our readers.

As someone who works in development at the higher levels - I can say once again that you are entirely wrong that the writing only has to be merely competent to get bought. There are dozens of different reasons that scripts go through the rewrites and it's primarily because everyone involved has their own opinion of what they want the final product to be. We buy a script, my producer loves the story, BUT he's not crazy about the setting - there have been two movies released recently set in the same environment and that makes him uncomfortable. So we go into rewrites. We pick a new evironment. But now that the main character is no longer a computer programmer and is now a bookie, other aspects of the character don't work - so we have to make more changes to accommodate the first change. And those changes lead to others - because a bookie probably wouldn't be dating a prosecutor. And so on and so forth. It's like dominoes. None of these changes had anything to do with the quality of the version we bought. So now we get the script into the hands of a great new director - straight off of a Sundance triumph - he loves it BUT he has a somewhat darker vision than the way the script is currently. The current version is great - just not what he wants it to be - neither writer number one or writer number two excels at dark, and even if they did - this director has a writer he loves working with - so we bring in writer #3. Then we go out to actors - and the actor the director wants most loves it. BUT he just played a bookie in his last film and would rather the character have a different career. So we go back to writer #3 and he does another draft - and now the protagonist is a jazz musician and this change leads to other changes - maybe we even go back to some of the original stuff like the musician is dating a prosecutor - because we hated losing the prosecutor. So by the time the thing's shot - it's very different than the original - in some cases a mere shadow of its former self. But had that original script been mediocre - it never would have been bought.

You sound like many novelists I come across who look down their noses with disdain at screenwriting - yes I realize you've done some, but you sound like you think it's beneath you.

I've written many screenplays and am taking a stab at a novel. Being able to tap into my character's internal thoughts and to be able to flesh out descriptions beyond a paragraph or so is quite a luxury. and I have to say that the novel is much easier for me. But I suppose that's because I'm one of those screenwriters who wants their work to be more than just mediocre.

[JustinoXXV]

"Entry level readers provide an extremely valuable service, but it's seldom one that benefits new writers. The first piece of advice I received was this: "If you really want to get anywhere with a screenplay, keep it out of the hands of entry level readers."

It's good advice.

An entry level reader has the power to reject, not to buy. He usually can't even pass it on to someone who has the power to buy. He can only pass it on to someone who can pass it on to someone else, who may or may not have the power to buy. There are sometimes a minimum of three people between an entry level reader and anyone who can actually say yes."

This reminds me of tips on how to get hired from a corporate recruiter. He basically advices people to find ways to avoid the recruiting agency, the human resources department, etc, all of whom have the power to say no, but not say yes.

Your advice and his advice is quite valid.

"It's nice to say all the writing in a screenplay should be great, but I have yet to see many where this is the case.

If the writing has to be great to sell a screenplay, then why is it every screenplay I've seen sell has been rewritten until it's completely unrecognizable? If the writing was so great, why were hundreds of thousands of dollars spent to change every last sentence of the writing? Why is it that very often the original writer who managed to sell his screenplay can't go through the shooting script and find a single sentence he actually wrote?"

Screenplays are written for a number of reasons that don't have to do with the original script per say. Producers are worried about how the script well sell and appear to the public as a movie. The script maybe altered due to what locations were available, what budget the producer has, what talent is interested in the project, the current political and social trends, etc.

This still doesn't excuse poor writing. If you've gotten a connection with a producer and you hand him/her a shitty script, he or she might not be willing to read your work a second time.

"The writing has to be competent, and that's all it has to be. The writing simply has to show the powers that be that a movie can be made from this screenplay. And some God-awful screenplays with God-awful writing sell every year, and some brilliantly written ones never, ever get turned into movies."

Actually, James, you've just given a reason why a badly written script, or even a compotent one, should be turned down.

Rewriting isn't free. And though any spec script sold will need rewriting, you've likely turned a producer off. Most projects these days are not made from specs. Look at Bewitched, X-Men, X-Men 2, Spider Man, Mission Impossible, etc.

Now would they really hire a writer on these kinds of projects if he or she handed in a crappy script?

Also, if by some miracle they do buy a screenplay from you, and the script has to be totally junked and be rewritten by professional writers, all you'll get is a story by credit. You'll not have gotten screenwriter credit, because you didn't write any of the script used in the actual movie. Is that what you want?

"Even after a screenplay has sold, and even ever a small fortune was spent hiring others to rewrite the "great" prose, I've seen directors rwrite the darned thing again as they went along.

Screenplays are about the movie, not about the writing. Competent writing and a great idea beat brilliant writing and the wrong idea every last time. After a certain point, writing is writing is writing. It's dialogue and character and story that matter. You don't spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to rewrite great prose. There are only so many ways to write "The car crashes into the schoolbus and explodes." And of all the ways there are, I've found the best way is to write "The car crashes into the school bus and explodes."

Dialouge, character, and story are a PART of the WRITING.

I just started writing a couple of years ago. And yes, I'll admit to submitting crappy scripts. But I'm doing everything I can to improve me writing, from getting essential feedback, to rewriters, to taking classes at UCLA starting this summer. Writing is a process that should be taking seriously.

You should really want to have a great idea AND great writing. I find that a lot of writers want someone else to develop their work, and that they pray that they can just come up with the "ideas"

But it doesn't work that way.

I'm afraid Iwrite's right about this.

[Joe Calabrese]

I can see this has turned into a heated debate and that's good, but let's not turn it into a beat James up thread. He does have some good points.

Unless you hand the script to a producer who you happen to play golf with every thursday or are already an established screenwriter, you will be read by a bottom feeder reader.

I personally do not send stuff to anyplace without my manager getting it up the ladder first. I agree that readers are overly tough on newbies, but they are just following orders for the most part.

Now I didn't say that the "writing has to be great." The story/plot has to be great, the formatting has to be great, the characters have to be great and the genre needs to be one that the producer and/or agent has interest in. Trust me, there's a difference.

On the other hand, I know guys who sold a script before written, based solely on a 30 second pitch. Andrew Marlowe who wrote End of Days saw Arnold by the pool at a hotel one day, introduced himself and had the idea of "The Terminator fights the Devil" film. No script on that one, but Arnold loved it and it was greenlit before a script was written.

BTW. Justino, if you wrote a screenplay, they can't give you a "story by" credit. You would get a screenplay credit as defined by the WGA in which (more or less) the less you write the lower down the list of credits you go. The only way to get story by is to have written the original treatment and/or synopsis, sold that and then they went to town with your work.

[IWrite]

Joe -

I don't think I was beating up on James. It's just that I spend most of my time on this site - trying to get people to learn the craft and be better writers. Trying to make them realize that even just being good isn't GOOD ENOUGH, let alone being mediocre. Because the truth is, if they aren't better than good they haven't got a shot in hell and I want those with talent to give themselves the best odds they can get. From following format and industry protocol to having multi-dimensional character's and an opening that sucks in the reader.

So when someone comes along and says "hey don't bother" it's annoying, not to mention frustrating. Especially when it's someone who appears to have disdain for the craft - and apparently doesn't understand the development process.

I've seen James' post on the novel boards and he's obviously very knowledgable about that - and that is part of my concern - because he IS knowledgable about publishing and prose writing and he has developed a reputation on this site as being someone to listen to - and in this case, he's giving exceedingly bad advice by suggesting that scripts merely need to be competent. As for submission protocol - I'm sure he wouldn't suggest that someone bind a manuscript or single space it when submitting to publishers or agents - so why not exhibit the same respect for the agents and producers on the west coast.

Perhaps he too can learn something on these boards and his next screenplay will be better than mediocre - maybe even great.

[JustinoXXV]

"BTW. Justino, if you wrote a screenplay, they can't give you a "story by" credit. You would get a screenplay credit as defined by the WGA in which (more or less) the less you write the lower down the list of credits you go. The only way to get story by is to have written the original treatment and/or synopsis, sold that and then they went to town with your work."

I stand corrected, Joe.

"Trying to make them realize that even just being good isn't GOOD ENOUGH, let alone being mediocre. Because the truth is, if they aren't better than good they haven't got a shot in hell and I want those with talent to give themselves the best odds they can get. From following format and industry protocol to having multi-dimensional character's and an opening that sucks in the reader."

Despite the fact I haven't always agreed with your delivery, I do very much appreciate your efforts on these boards, Iwrite.

[buzzearl]

This is a difficult question for anyone attempting to write for the entertainment industry, as it's somewhat different to get an agent in film/television than in publishing. In the book "The Writer Got Screwed" (A Guide to the Legal and Business Practices of Writing for the Entertainment Industry) by Brooke Wharton, there is a large discussion about this topic. Also, I just found Brooke Wharton's new website at www.writingforfilm.com (http://www.writingforfilm.com/) where Brooke is devotng a lot of time to discussing this topic in the Articles/Blog area. One thing to remember is that agents in entertainment want to do deals, producers are looking for material. A good approch might be to get a copy of the Hollywood Creative Directory (Producers) and send query letters to different production companies which are looking for material which is similar to your material. If a producers likes your material, ask for introduction to an agent. As entertainment agents tend to work on referral, this is one way to get your foot in the door.

Remember, this journey is a marathon, not a sprint.