Hell/hell in a fantasy novel

I don't think it matters. Anyway, the original idea of hell came from polytheistic Greece.

Hell is a concept familiar to many different cultures. Don't worry about it.

It'd bother me.
It's the author's decision, of course, but calling hell something other than "hell", then having people use the word "hell" -- well, that just seems lazy to me, like someone who hasn't thought through the consequences of their worldbuilding.

Two things, Greenwolf -- 1) I think this is more a fantasy/worldbuilding issue than a novels issue, so I'd like to move it to SF/F, and 2) did you mean the title to be Heaven/Hell?

Okay, now I'm confused. Greenwolf, it's not clear. Is it called Hell or not? If it is then fine, if it isn't then the other expressions should be edited.

Greenwolf103 said:

Shweta, I'm sorry I posted this in the wrong place. My bad. Thanks for moving to a more appropriate place.

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Not a problem at all You weren't in the "wrong" place. I just figured the responses are more likely to be helpful to you in SF/F. Because this seems specifically like the sort of thing that might annoy fantasy readers (like me!) more than normal human beings.

And, no, not Heaven/Hell for the title. Since I think this mostly focuses on the "Hell" issue....

Thank you, though, for the comments.

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Ok! And bouncing you over to fantasyland now.

For me, it's a linguistic question and hence an etymological one. Here's the history of the word, from www.etymonline.com:


If the world is an alternate history place, then 'hell' as a word might make sense. If it's a completely different locale (and presumably our earth exists someplace else) then I'm with Shweta: I'd pick another name, and either adopt local language for it, or adapt an etymological root, like Khalija. I'd also question that it was necessarily full of fire etc... since that's just due to our own cultural development. The Mesopotamians for instance, believed that Hell was dusty and dry; Dante's innermost circle of Hell is frozen; while Niflheim was presumably misty.

In my opinion, as long as the writer is consistent using the word "hell", then it is fine. However, for me, the image the word hell evokes is the fire and brimstone view. If her hell is not like that, but is just an underworld, then it would be jarring to read. I mean, how can you curse someone to burn in hell if there ain't no fire?

Nordic hell was endless ice, wasn't it? I'd tink up another name for it - but it would have to be one hell of a scary name!

I think that having characters telling one another to 'go to Inearthia' would be even more jarring to the reader. Like those made-up profanities you sometimes get in science fiction books.

I've always thought of a fantasy novel as sort of a translation, anyway, rendering words and concepts from the language of the realm into our English (except where otherwise specified).

smcc360 said:

I think that having characters telling one another to 'go to Inearthia' would be even more jarring to the reader. Like those made-up profanities you sometimes get in science fiction books.

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Yeah, the problem there is twofold. The first problem I'd have is -- how many basic concepts in a language are four syllables long? Never mind obviously having another word in them. So the hell term reads as made up to me to start off with.

The second is that different cultures curse in different ways. "Go to X" is fairly culture-specific, so you can't just substitute another word there. The best way to curse plausibly is to think about how characters in that culture would swear.

If it's set in another world, then I go by the assumption that they're speaking some fantasy language, and that Hell/hell/whatever has a fantasy name. Basically, once you write it in English, you're translating whatever your characters are saying into English - and saying "oh, hell' is a fairly common English interjection.

Arguably, you COULD just leave it as lowercase "hell", given that the word does have a more general meaning in a lot of cases. However, you will have to deal with the fact that you are giving the wrong impression to some readers, who will instantly associate "hell" with one of the more popular Christian versions of the underworld.

Additionally, since it is a fantasy story, it's a lot easier to get people to take metaphors literally. When you're writing within genre, you have to be a little careful in some cases saying things like "He went to Hell" or whatever, because we are already primed to expect the impossible.

I think the easiest option is just to think of a new name for the underworld in your story and change the curse words to correspond to it. That way you signify to the reader, "oh, okay, some kind of fantasy underworld, I'd better get ready to hear the rules for it". Otherwise, most readers will bring their own ideas about Hell to the story and might end up really confused about your setting.

I say ditch the word "hell." Do everything but actually use it. Dance around it to the point of annoyance, but never ever actually use it.

I recall that only once in the entire half-a-zillion pages of The Lord of the Rings did the word "hell" actually appear. It was a real show-stopper when it happened. I believe it was Aragorn who said it, or possibly Theoden. But the context was when the Uruk Hai revealed themselves as a huge approaching army, and it was then obvious that these new and never-before-seen types of Goblins were in fact a perverse cross breed who were half Orc and half Mortal. And so in very operatic strains of both despair and horror they were referred to (IIRC) as "creatures of hell" or (IIRC) they were said to have been brought into existence "via some craft of hell." After that one time the word never occured again.

Mumut said:

Nordic hell was endless ice, wasn't it? I'd tink up another name for it - but it would have to be one hell of a scary name!

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As I recall the root of the word Hell, comes from the Norse goddess, Hel, ruler of the underworld that has the same name.

I just use the word "Nether" in place of hell.

"What the Nether?"

"Like Nether you do!"

For example.

Of course, the Nether is a real place in my fantasy world, although it's not entirely your typical version of hell. More like a demonic underworld with, um, lots of demons. But no devil.

Colin McHale said:

I just use the word "Nether" in place of hell.

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Then I hope nobody mentions anyone's nether regions
Or that if they do it's intentional.

Shweta said:

Then I hope nobody mentions anyone's nether regions
Or that if they do it's intentional.

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Beware the tiny Orcs from the Nether Regions!

The use of the word hell in a world where hell doesn't exist would bother me. The word hell links to nothing within that culture--it has no meaning, no history. Why would someone say it? I personally would advise the author to change it. It smells of laziness to me. Any curse he uses should have a traceable history within that culture. Curses have to be culturally relevent, otherwise they have no potency. And, damn it to hell, potency is the point!

If the hell place in the story were called hell, I would have no problem with this. If it specifically has another name, it'd bother me a lot, because it would appear to be a word either completely out of place/without origin, or to be a word referring to a place that doesn't exist, either actually or conceptually, in that world. So I would recommend against using it.

The use of the word hell in a world where hell doesn't exist would bother me.

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It would bother me a lot, as an indication of lazy writing, especially as it's so easy to get around ( probably easier for me as I don't generally say hell much anyway, not believing in it. The closest I get is saying 'Hel's knickers). My guys do damn other people to my version of the nasty afterlife occassionaly, but they wouldn't use hell because they don't know what that word means. They swear by / at their gods reassuringly often though .

Unless, as someone said upthread, it's an alternate earth, why would they use a word that has no meaning for them? It would be like a contemporary novel that has a character saying 'damn you to Inearthia'.

I'd say encourage the writer to think of original curse's / oaths. You can use them to say rather a lot about the world, or an individual character. It's little details like this that really make me love to read fantasy.

I don't have a problem with it as long as it fits the tone and mood of the Fantasy world. If it's being used because the author was being lazy and the use jars the reader too much then it needs to be dealt with.

As long as it is explained, I don't see a problem. I use Hell, but it's the aching frozen bones Viking Hell.

Another instance of 'hell' in Tolkein was the literal translation of Melkor's fortress Angband; 'The Hell of Iron.'

Though, of course, the fortress was subterranean, dark, exceedingly deep, filled with beings such as balrogs, and so forth, so it might be argued that it was literally Hell.

And of course, that is also where orcs were first bred...meaning that orcs ARE beings from hell.

How central to the story are is the 'heaven' and 'hell'? If they aren't all that important, I'd advise the author to ditch the references altogether and switch to something else. Instead of 'go to hell', for example, try 'sod yourself' or whatever.

If the heaven and hell concepts are very important, then I vote for changing the names and then remaining consistent with them throughout the book. And I would also agree that 'go to hell' is a phrase pretty well connected with our current world.

Keffington said:

If it's set in another world, then I go by the assumption that they're speaking some fantasy language, and that Hell/hell/whatever has a fantasy name. Basically, once you write it in English, you're translating whatever your characters are saying into English - and saying "oh, hell' is a fairly common English interjection.

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This is similar to what I myself do. The culture (an American Indian one) in my story doesn't really have the concept of "Hell" in the uppercase Christian sense, but at times I have the characters use phrases like "What the hell" and "Damn you!" (even though the concept of damnation doesn't really exist either). For the most part this isn't really explained, though in a sequel there's an indication of what's happening. The characters are speaking different languages which are translated to the main character, so it can be assumed that some things are lost or modified in translation, into concepts that she (as a 21st-century American) can understand. For example, she hears someone use the phrase "pissed off" and is confused that he would know such a term until she realizes that it must be an indirect translation of some other curse he uses, the literal meaning of which might go over her head.

That is, while the characters are saying things like "What the hell" and "Damn you!" they don't mean the literal Christian meanings of the phrases, these are merely substitutes to make their translated speech clearer.

In terms of the word "hell" itself not existing in this language, I'd be fairly certain that NONE of the words used to tell the story exist in the fantasy world in question; it's a "translation" by the writer into English, and some leeway is expected.

I would accept lowercase "hell" in a fantasy story where there isn't the EXACT concept of such a place but it might stick out a bit if there's really no general equivalent. There's a sort of Hell in the story in question, so even though it's not called "Hell," I would take it more in stride if the characters use the word. If there's really no concept of any sort of Hell, even with a different name, like in my story, then it will stand out and might need some explanation or else a substitute word. In the story referred to perhaps the characters, when cursing, should use the name of the story's idea of Hell (for example, "Hell" is called "the Duat" in another story of mine so my characters will say, "What in the Duat?").

In short, I think it depends. I'd accept the word in this story, but maybe not in every story. I do know it gnawed at me when I used it in my own work!