Plot Driven Fantasy Inspired By D&D

Feidb · Aug 6, 2008

I wrote a fantasy novel inspired by a D&D module I created in the 80's. It is plot driven and the POV is from only one character. It is only 76,000 words, which is short for a fantasy.

I've heard it may fit into the sword and sorcery fantasy genre, but apparently that is a dirty word in publishing right now. The heroine doesn't save the world, usually has less than stellar motives, but has to make a moral decision at the end.

Is there still a market for this? I haven't really found anything else that compares with it.

Feidb

Cybernaught · Aug 6, 2008

I might be wrong, but you could probably get away with classifying it as low fantasy.

Ruv Draba · Aug 6, 2008

Sword and Sorcery is still around - especially in short story format (e.g. in Black Gate and elsewhere). D&D-style adventures are around too. Both are sometimes called Low Fantasy, but they're different beasts.

The things that you'll often see in the best S&S are fast pace; a sombre headlong drive; thick atmosphere; and spare use of dialogue - typically to reveal character rather than backstory or plot. (Howard Andrew Jones expresses it really well here.)

This contrasts with party-based D&D-style adventures where the pace is often staccato: traveltraveltravel, camp, dialogue, fight, traveltravel, prepare, fight, dialogue, traveltravel... The atmosphere is only judiciously thick at key points and the dialogue is often light, even self-referential (e.g. Rosenberg's Guardians of the Flame series, or Rich Burlew's Order of the Stick graphical story).

waylander · Aug 7, 2008

Feidb said:
I wrote a fantasy novel inspired by a D&D module I created in the 80's. It is plot driven and the POV is from only one character. It is only 76,000 words, which is short for a fantasy.

I've heard it may fit into the sword and sorcery fantasy genre, but apparently that is a dirty word in publishing right now. The heroine doesn't save the world, usually has less than stellar motives, but has to make a moral decision at the end.

Is there still a market for this? I haven't really found anything else that compares with it.

Feidb

It is a tough market if the stakes are not pretty much the whole world.
What you're describing sounds a lot like my fantasy novel that my agent tells me no-one wants to buy because the plot is not wide enough/stakes not high enough - the stakes are high for the characters in the story, but the world is not going to be plunged into a new dark age if the bad guys win.

Inkdaub · Aug 7, 2008

Scott Erickson writes a series called Malazan Book of the Fallen that is extremely popular. It has it's roots in a roll playing game like D&D.

DragonHeart · Aug 7, 2008

Inkdaub said:
Scott Erickson writes a series called Malazan Book of the Fallen that is extremely popular. It has it's roots in a roll playing game like D&D.

Steven Erikson.

Malazan is based on his D&D games from the 80's, though it barely resembles its RPG roots. Great series, IMO.

~DragonHeart~

Feidb · Aug 7, 2008

Waylander,

Yup, mine is not save the world. The object she is after turns out to be a cure for the queen of her kingdon who has a rare disease given to her by the queens evil magick user. So, in the end, she sacrifices profit to save the queen. However, that doesn't affect the whole world. Further adventures might, but then again, "adventures" says it all.

All,

By all rights, this is actually an adventure fantasy and that is not a sub-genre I've been able to find much on. Maybe low fantasy is what I should be shooting for.

If I had a choice between an action fantasy and say Robert Jordan, I'd pick the action fantasy any day. I've read four and a half of his series, and got so frustrated I couldn't finish the series. He'd ramble on for a hundred pages of internal thoughts of a character and one little minor thing would happen. Now that's character-driven fantasy! Nothing against it, but it's just not my bag. When I see a fantasy that is super thick, that is usually a red flag that it's character driven.

I guess I'm cursed with a desire to write what I would actually read. I just can't get into writing something I would skip over on the bookshelf.

I grew up on the Hardy Boys, Nancy Drew, Buck Rogers, Edgar Rice Burroughs, and Doc Savage, among others. All plot driven stories. If not for them, I might never have taken up reading.

Thanks to everyone for your excellent input.

Feidb

Danthia · Aug 7, 2008

Fantasy is still doing well, and you don't need to save the world to sell it. More and more editors are looking for fantasy that ISN'T the same old same old. I just sold a fantasy trilogy that doesn;t save the world. Bottom line, if the book is good, it will sell. If not, it won't. Polish it up so it shines and send it out. Books are published up to two years from when they're sold, so who knows what the market will be doing then.

One note however...I've read many a fantasy agent and magazine editor say not to send them stories that were based on a D&D game (the see so many and they've never good), so if your novel is clearly the fictionalized re-telling of a campaign or game, you might want to revise first so it holds together on its own. If it's just inspired by D&D and no one would ever know, then submit away.

Feidb · Aug 7, 2008

Danthia,

Thanks! The story is inspired by a D&D module I created, but is not based on it, per se.

I have elves and dwarves in it, and lots of other races and monsters, but I created my own names and descriptions for everything but the elves and dwarves.

Feidb

Shadowlit · Aug 7, 2008

I'd say take a look at R.A. Salvatore's "Forgotten Realms" novels and Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman's "Dragonlance" series. Both are based on D&D campaigns (I hear they actually played out their campaign with friends for plot ideas and character development), and both are just flat out great fantasy novels. Some of my favorites by far. These days, I think the better fantasy stories are those that have some rooting in D&D because there's more inspiration to draw upon.

But, to answer your question, there's definitely a market for it. A genre like that is pretty much all that the company Wizards of the Coast publishes.

Liosse de Velishaf · Aug 7, 2008

Shadowlit said:
I'd say take a look at R.A. Salvatore's "Forgotten Realms" novels and Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman's "Dragonlance" series. Both are based on D&D campaigns (I hear they actually played out their campaign with friends for plot ideas and character development), and both are just flat out great fantasy novels. Some of my favorites by far. These days, I think the better fantasy stories are those that have some rooting in D&D because there's more inspiration to draw upon.

But, to answer your question, there's definitely a market for it. A genre like that is pretty much all that the company Wizards of the Coast publishes.

I enjoyed Dragonlance--up to a point--but RA Salvatore was painful to read, especially with his lack of real research and extensive cliches(which seemed to be taken fairly seriously by him). There's nothing necessarily wrong with D&D as a game or as inspiration, as long as you use it as inspiration and not a basis. They call it originality for a reason.

Inkdaub · Aug 8, 2008

DragonHeart said:
Steven Erikson. Malazan is based on his D&D games from the 80's, though it barely resembles its RPG roots. Great series, IMO.

~DragonHeart~

I thought that name looked odd...haha.

HeronW · Aug 8, 2008

You can't save the world all the time, just a piece. StW fantasies start looking repetitive too. Find a pub that wants an engaging story and keep writing what you love.

Straka · Aug 8, 2008

I looked up the definition of S&S and saw the checklist of what defines the genre. When I considered by last WIP, it pretty much checks off each characteristic of S&S. I didn't intend to write S&S but my WIP was largely a reaction against a lot of those world saving fantasy books. I've been calling it dark urban fantasy, but the MC's personal conflicts run parallel to a larger event, but not so large as to change the world. This feeds into the notion the WIP is beating into the MC, that no one person can change the world their in.

jkcates · Aug 8, 2008

waylander said:
It is a tough market if the stakes are not pretty much the whole world.
What you're describing sounds a lot like my fantasy novel that my agent tells me no-one wants to buy because the plot is not wide enough/stakes not high enough - the stakes are high for the characters in the story, but the world is not going to be plunged into a new dark age if the bad guys win.

Agreed, I think for this type of fantasy, you pretty much have to have the "save the world" motiff. Of course there are always exceptions, but as a general rule the stakes have to be really high.

A few cents worth

WinterDusk14 · Aug 8, 2008

Hi, this is kind of off-topic, but what does D&D module/campaign mean? I know its Dungeons and Dragons, but I've never been too familiar about it.

Sarpedon · Aug 8, 2008

a module is a premade storyline/adventure/setting that you can buy. It usually comes in the form of a paperback book + a map and some other things, sometimes including special figurines and crap.

As opposed to the core rulebooks.

WinterDusk14 · Aug 8, 2008

Ah, I see. Thanks.^^

On topic,

"When I see a fantasy that is super thick, that is usually a red flag that it's character driven."

Not entirely. Erikson's Malazan books aren't character-driven, in some ways they are, but not as heavy as Jordan's. George Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire, is kind of character-driven, but the way they were done is so realistic that you're going to love them.

I did a survey once out in the public regarding what they want to see in books (yeah, it was kind of a dirty tactic to get some ideas on the do's and don'ts but that was before discovering this place, thanks again Maryn!^^). But anyway, they say it really doesn't have to be about 'save the world' thing. It all depends on how the story is told, in terms how the story was delivered no matter how bad the characters or plot are.

Feidb · Aug 8, 2008

Winterdusk14,

Good question and Sarpedon pretty well answered it. However, in my case, I'd had a lot of experience playing commercial D&D modules and by the time I came up with mine, we were doing 99% of them on our own. The pre-made ones were either just too expensive, too hard to get, or not what we wanted to do. I was living in Spain and/or Turkey at the time so getting them was always a challenge, especially in the 80's.

Feidb.

Feidb · Aug 8, 2008

Winterdusk14,

You are right. There are no absolutes. Thanks!

Feidb

Mr Flibble · Aug 8, 2008

My story started off with two NPC's I made for a MERP ( Middle Earth Role Playing) campaign that I was godding years ago. ( We never used the modules, it's far too much fun thinking up new and exciting ways to kill the players to bother with pre made adventures)

I haven't stayed in that world, I created my own, but those two characters are pretty much as they always have been, but I don't think it reads as a 'D&D' tale.

Inspiration - yes. Using the world in my book - no.

MattW · Aug 8, 2008

I've read some D&D inspired fantasy. The best doesn't need to mention it's D&D roots, and it has few conventions of the game that aren't generally shared by the genre. The worst almost show the rules and results of dice rolls on the page, and take no step farther than a gamer would accept in a cohesive ruleset.

Straka · Aug 8, 2008

when one of the characters needs to sleep before they can use a spell again, it's a D&D world ;-)

Dommo · Aug 9, 2008

The biggest problem I have with this type of fantasy is how repetitive it is.

Pretty much the only thing that feels different between any two books series are the magic systems. Otherwise they seem pretty close to the same.

Shadowlit · Aug 9, 2008

I like that some very interesting characters can sprout up from this genre. I mentioned R.A. Salvatore earlier, and I happen to think that Drizzt is a great MC that I genuinely cared about. The downside to this is that Salvatore cares about him too, and won't kill off any of his characters for anything. This makes for a tiring story if you know that the group is going to get from Point A to Point B successfully.

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