McCain's top economic advisor says the economic downturn is all in people's heads

[InfinityGoddess]

http://www.washtimes.com/news/2008/jul/09/mccain-adviser-addresses-mental-recession/

With the economy on the top of voters' minds, Republican presidential candidate John McCain (http://www.washtimes.com/themes/?Theme=John+McCain)'s top economic adviser said the Arizona senator will lay down a detailed program to revive dynamic growth with dramatic tax and spending reforms.


In an interview with the Washington Times, Phil Gramm (http://www.washtimes.com/themes/?Theme=Phil+Gramm), a former Texas senator who is now vice chairman of UBS, the giant Swiss bank, said he expects Mr. McCain to inherit a sluggish economy if he wins the presidency, weighed down above all by the conviction of many Americans that economic conditions are the worst in two or three decades and that America (http://www.washtimes.com/themes/?Theme=United+States) is in decline.


"You've heard of mental depression; this is a mental recession," he said, noting that growth has held up at about 1 percent despite all the publicity over losing jobs to India, China, illegal immigration, housing and credit problems and record oil prices. "We may have a recession; we haven't had one yet."


"We have sort of become a nation of whiners," he said. "You just hear this constant whining, complaining about a loss of competitiveness, America in decline" despite a major export boom that is the primary reason that growth continues in the economy, he said.


"We've never been more dominant; we've never had more natural advantages than we have today," he said. "We have benefited greatly" from the globalization of the economy in the last 30 years.


Mr. Gramm said the constant drubbing of the media on the economy's problems is one reason people have lost confidence. Various surveys show that consumer confidence has fallen precipitously this year to the lowest levels in two to three decades, with most analysts attributing that to record high gasoline prices over $4 a gallon and big drops in the value of homes, which are consumers' biggest assets.


"Misery sells newspapers," Mr. Gramm said. "Thank God the economy is not as bad as you read in the newspaper every day."


Man, I wish I had Mr. Gramm's big bucks. Then I wouldn't have to worry about my personal finances either.

Of course, then he backtracks (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/07/10/gramm-what-we-need-is-more-leadership-and-less-whining/), but the bad economy is still all in our heads.

[clintl]

I did think that McCain's way throwing Gramm under the bus was entertaining - suggesting Gramm was now in line to be nominated ambassador to Belarus, but Minsk may not want him.

[InfinityGoddess]

I did think that McCain's way throwing Gramm under the bus was entertaining - suggesting Gramm was now in line to be nominated ambassador to Belarus, but Minsk may not want him.

:ROFL:Now that is funny.

I thought I heard McCain on Countdown the other day about him not agreeing with Gramm, when he himself said the economy was "psychological" as well (http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/19/mccain-a-lot-of-our-problems-today-are-psychological/). Guess the fact that I'm poor (never mind what is or is not in my bank account) really is "all in my head", eh?

[Robert Toy]

Don't forget Obama's Dr. Phil joke.

[MattW]

Economy looks fine, if shaky, from where I sit.

Home values slumping? Sure - but it's cyclical, and homes aren't an investment.

Stock market down? Sure - but it's cyclical.

Oil price is skyrocketing? Sure - but it's a wake up call to bigger and badder problems if we don't fix it soon.

Unemployment up? Sure - our economy is not just changing, it's beginning to transform. There are sectors where you will never be out of work like healthcare and, sadly, government. Unskilled and low-skill labor doesn't have a bright future, but even moderately trained specialists can find a niche.

the Arizona senator will lay down a detailed program to revive dynamic growth with dramatic tax and spending reforms.Good. Put more money in the pockets of Americans, and revise how and where the government decides to waste the money they do take.

[InfinityGoddess]

Good. Put more money in the pockets of Americans, and revise how and where the government decides to waste the money they do take.

Obama plans to put more money into the pockets of middle class Americans by cutting their taxes. I'd say that's a very good thing.

[Robert Toy]

Obama plans to put more money into the pockets of middle class Americans by cutting their taxes. I'd say that's a very good thing.
The operative word

[InfinityGoddess]

The operative word

Likewise, we could say the same of McCain and what his plans are.

[donroc]

Obama can say what he wants about lowering taxes for thos below $250,000, but do not be surprised if the Dem Congress makes an across the board raise for all earning more than $25,000.

[mscelina]

Obama also plans to 'change the behavior of dictators.'

I'm vastly uninterested in vague plans at this point. I want solid platforms with impetus for action and schedules for implementation. I plan to go drinking tonight. Let Obama and McCain plan to come up with ways to fix our government.

And so far, Obama is running behind McCain on this issue. He'd better plan to do something different pretty darn soon. I want to go into the voting booth with my mind made up for a change.

[Robert Toy]

Likewise, we could say the same of McCain and what his plans are.
Exactly, why credit this plan to one candidate?

[InfinityGoddess]

Obama can say what he wants about lowering taxes for thos below $250,000, but do not be surprised if the Dem Congress makes an across the board raise for all earning more than $25,000.

I would be very surprised, actually, if they did that without a well-earned veto, if at all. Democrats, since the days of FDR, have only been known to raise taxes on people upper middle class and above.



And so far, Obama is running behind McCain on this issue. He'd better plan to do something different pretty darn soon. I want to go into the voting booth with my mind made up for a change.

Actually, it's the other way around (http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20080626_Poll__Obama_leads__economy_rules.html).

[mscelina]

Oh, by the way, Phil Gramm is a brilliant economic theorist.

And he's a political boob. *shrug*

What was that balanced budget bill he sponsored in the late eighties? The Gramm-Rudman Act. I need to look that up and research it a bit before I comment further.

[Shadow_Ferret]

You've heard of mental depression; this is a mental recession," he said, noting that growth has held up at about 1 percent despite all the publicity over losing jobs to India, China, illegal immigration, housing and credit problems and record oil prices. "We may have a recession; we haven't had one yet."


"We have sort of become a nation of whiners," he said. "You just hear this constant whining, complaining about a loss of competitiveness, America in decline" despite a major export boom that is the primary reason that growth continues in the economy, he said.

This is exactly what I've been saying for months. Smart man.

Obama plans to put more money into the pockets of middle class Americans by cutting their taxes. I'd say that's a very good thing.
Please. A Democrat CUTTING taxes? Ain't gonna happen.

[InfinityGoddess]

Oh, by the way, Phil Gramm is a brilliant economic theorist.


The same brilliance that led to the mortgage meltdown (http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2008/07/foreclosure-phil.html)?

[InfinityGoddess]

Please. A Democrat CUTTING taxes? Ain't gonna happen.

My brother lives in Ohio. His current governor is Ted Strickland, who actually cut taxes in his state. Imagine that.

[Shadow_Ferret]

I'd look more closely. If they cut taxes in one area, they generally raise them in another.

Either that or he has some ulterior motive.

[Robert Toy]

The same brilliance that led to the mortgage meltdown (http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2008/07/foreclosure-phil.html)?
Great unbiased source. ;)

[Robert Toy]

My brother lives in Ohio. His current governor is Ted Strickland, who actually cut taxes in his state. Imagine that.
An interesting analysis of Ohio's tax cut

http://www.policymattersohio.org/Ohio_income-tax_cut_analysis_2005_02.htm

[InfinityGoddess]

Great unbiased source. ;)

The Washington Moonie Times is hardly what I call "unbiased" and yet I still used it as a source.

I'd look more closely. If they cut taxes in one area, they generally raise them in another.

Either that or he has some ulterior motive.

No, really. I've spoken to my brother about it. When Strickland came into the Governor's mansion, he saw all the tax increases under Bob Taft (his predecessor and a Republican, no less) and saw how fat the state government was and decided he was going to ease that tax burden and cut state jobs. I wouldn't necessarily call that "ulterior motive" other than getting Ohio out of the mess they were in from the previous governor (who was so horribly corrupt that he was tried and convicted of such while in office and refused to step down).

[clintl]

What was that balanced budget bill he sponsored in the late eighties? The Gramm-Rudman Act. I need to look that up and research it a bit before I comment further.

Basically, it was a formula to keep the deficit from growing by instituting across-the-board cuts when necessary. It wasn't that brilliant. It just let everyone off the hook from making real budget decisions while keeping the deficit somewhat contained. That's not to say that it wasn't an improvement over what had been going on. But it wasn't on the scale that was really necessary.

[rugcat]

You'll notice how quickly McCain distanced himself from Graham's comments.

"He doesn't speak for me."

No acknowledgment that Graham is his chief economic adviser.

[Robert Toy]

You'll notice how quickly McCain distanced himself from Graham's comments.

"He doesn't speak for me."

No acknowledgment that Graham is his chief economic adviser.
Yup, nearly as fast as Obama distanced himself from General Wesley Clark.

[rugcat]

Yup, nearly as fast as Obama distanced himself from General Wesley Clark.Wesley Clark will have zero to do with establishing policy in an Obama administration. Graham may well be the chief economic architect of the McCain administration.

Suck it up, people does not strike me as a viable economic plan for solving our problems.

[blacbird]

Obama can say what he wants about lowering taxes for thos below $250,000, but do not be surprised if the Dem Congress makes an across the board raise for all earning more than $25,000.

Not a chance in the galaxy that this would happen. Pure demagoguery, Don.

caw

[blacbird]

You'll notice how quickly McCain distanced himself from Graham's comments.

"He doesn't speak for me."

No acknowledgment that Graham is his chief economic adviser.

An absolutely key distinction. Clark has no role in the Obama campaign; he was, in fact, a big supporter of Hillary Clinton in the primary run-up.

Gramm (correct spelling, btw, so as not to be confused with, say, prominent Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham) is McCain's central economic advisor, a significant position considering McCain has admitted on more than one occasion that he's a dunce when it comes to economics. Gramm has been a lobbyist for one of Europe's biggest investment banks, and one that has been intimately tied to the below-prime mortgage market and the consequent credit debacle now playing out. While in the Senate, he engineered the famous "Enron loophole" in regulatory legislation that permitted the door to that sorry episode to open up. He loves to be able to play high-stakes economic poker with other people's money (i.e, yours and mine). And he could give a rat's about the economic well-being of the average American, as long as it doesn't negatively affect his own. Real piece of work, Phil Gramm is.

Oh, dang, I'm whining, aren't I?

caw

[rugcat]

Great unbiased source. ;)http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2008/07/foreclosure-phil.html

What in that article do you find inaccurate?

[Robert Toy]

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2008/07/foreclosure-phil.html

What in that article do you find inaccurate?
Well, we can start with the tone:

“Who's to blame for the biggest financial catastrophe of our time? There are plenty of culprits, but one candidate for lead perp is former Sen. Phil Gramm. Eight years ago, as part of a decades-long anti-regulatory crusade, Gramm pulled a sly legislative maneuver that greased the way to the multibillion-dollar subprime meltdown.”

Really unbiased...:D

[blacbird]

Exactly, why credit this plan to one candidate?

Because you chose to emphasize the word in order to cast aspersions on one of the two candidates, and not the other.

All either of them can do right now, until one takes the oath of office on Jan. 20, 2009, is propose plans and present them to the voting public. If that so offends you, hey, don't vote.

caw

[blacbird]

Well, we can start with the tone:

“Who's to blame for the biggest financial catastrophe of our time? There are plenty of culprits, but one candidate for lead perp is former Sen. Phil Gramm. Eight years ago, as part of a decades-long anti-regulatory crusade, Gramm pulled a sly legislative maneuver that greased the way to the multibillion-dollar subprime meltdown.”

Really unbiased...:D

But factually correct. Strip out the hyperbole and argue with it.

caw

[MattW]

I'm glad to hear when any candidate plans to do anything. More detail at this point helps to make informed voting decisions. Economy is on my mind - come up with statements and plans, not just a platform of sloganeering. Energy is on my mind - share your thoughts please, Mr. Candidate.

Unfortunately, these plans are coming long after most of us have decided which way we're voting anyway.

[brianm]

Home values slumping? Sure - but it's cyclical, and homes aren't an investment.

Utter rubbish. Real estate has been and shall always be a very good investment. Like the stock market, you buy low and sell high. I retired at 49 because of my real estate investments.

And the real estate market isn't slumping. It's in the toilet.

[Robert Toy]

Because you chose to emphasize the word in order to cast aspersions on one of the two candidates, and not the other.
How would you define crediting a plan to one candidate as if it is unique, ignoring the others' plan?

All either of them can do right now, until one takes the oath of office on Jan. 20, 2009, is propose plans and present them to the voting public. If that so offends you, hey, don't vote.

caw
Neither candidate offends me, but I do get somewhat annoyed at overly zealous voters with blinders.

[Robert Toy]

But factually correct. Strip out the hyperbole and argue with it.

caw
Says who?

Provide another a creditable source.

[blacbird]

Says who?

Provide another a creditable source.

Just google "Phil Gramm economic deregulation banking" and you'll pull up all the sources you could ever want.

caw

[Robert Toy]

Here are a few links on the sub-prime crisis:


http://www.mortgagehomeloans-ic.com/subprime-mortgage-crisis-causes.shtml

http://www.reportonbusiness.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071002.wgreenspan1002/BNStory/robNews/home

http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article.cfm?articleid=1995

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-caused-the-subprime-mortgage-crisis.htm

http://www.bu.edu/today/2008/02/12/what-caused-subprime-crisis

[InfinityGoddess]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24844889/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/01/AR2008040102860_pf.html

http://www.newsweek.com/id/145011?from=rss

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/05/todays_must_read_346.php

And that's just a small portion from the very phrase blac suggested right off Google...

[Robert Toy]

A few very simple questions.

Who decided to lend the money to risky borrowers?

Why?

Hint: It wasn't Gramm

[InfinityGoddess]

A few very simple questions.

Who decided to lend the money to risky borrowers?

Why?

Hint: It wasn't Gramm

No, but he did help to deregulate the system and that is what FUBARed it.

[Robert Toy]

God, you're so predictable.

The SCOTUS just affirmed the right of Americans to own guns.

Using your logic, the SCOTUS is responsible for all the gun related deaths in the U.S.

[MattW]

Utter rubbish. Real estate has been and shall always be a very good investment. Inherent in any investment is a measure of risk. I, for one, would never take a risk on the place I live and where I keep all my stuff.

If there's profit to be made, it's not going to be overnight, or maybe not even over 5 years. Any time that has happened has been a fluke.

Expecting returns, and even banking on them to constantly trade-up is not a winning strategy.

Like the stock market, you buy low and sell high.
If real estate isn't cyclical, how in the world can you buy low? If it always goes up, buying anything is guaranteed a return? That's the kind of thinking that causes foreclosures.

If you retired because of good planning and good timing, more power to you. Those times are past. Now is bargain hunting time (maybe for another year). The downturn is compounded by the level of risk borrowers and lenders we willing to put up with, and now that it's becoming real, the pool of easy funds has gone dry and those bargains are only available to the best of borrowers with big cash reserves.

[blacbird]

No, but he did help to deregulate the system and that is what FUBARed it.

And then went on to be a highly-compensated lobbyist for UBS (I think that's the acronym), which has about fifteen of its fingers entangled in the mess.

Is he solely responsible for it, as Robert so judiciously and hyperbolically accuses me of implying? Of course not. That would be giving him far more credit than he has earned. There are lots of players, some of whom doubtless will emerge unscathed and uncredited, smiling and sleeping like infants, with mucho millions of water currency is worth the most in their various accounts.

No, Phil Gramm is just happy with his role in the matter, and his compensation for it. If people just weren't so damn whiny. Remember the good old days, three months or so back, when Obama got blasted for calling people "bitter"? Gee, you don't suppose this economic mess might be a reason for that, do you?

caw

[Robert Toy]

IMHO, attempting to put the entire blame for the sub-prime crisis on one man, is naïve, to do it because he is in the “opposition’s” camp is disingenuous.

[blacbird]

IMHO, attempting to put the entire blame for the sub-prime crisis on one man, is naïve, to do it because he is in the “opposition’s” camp is disingenuous.

I never put "the entire blame" on Gramm, nor implied that I did, as I have just reiterated above. He's merely a prominent player in a long series of self-serving legislative and lobbying machinations that contributed to the mess. Bad enough, I'd say.

caw

[Robert Toy]

I never put "the entire blame" on Gramm, nor implied that I did, as I have just reiterated above. He's merely a prominent player in a long series of self-serving legislative and lobbying machinations that contributed to the mess. Bad enough, I'd say.

caw
A good description of the House.

[Robert Toy]

Okay, enough for tonite...it's 11:02 PM and I have an erarly appointment tomorrow.

Night all, it's been fun...:D

[InfinityGoddess]

A good description of the House.

Phil Gramm was a Senator.

[InfinityGoddess]

God, you're so predictable.

The SCOTUS just affirmed the right of Americans to own guns.

Using your logic, the SCOTUS is responsible for all the gun related deaths in the U.S.

That's not what I said at all. I said he helped to FUBAR the mortgage industry, not that he was entirely to blame for it. There is plenty of blame to go around.

[Robert Toy]

Phil Gramm was a Senator.
Sorry I meant to type Congress...it's late here.

[InfinityGoddess]

No, Phil Gramm is just happy with his role in the matter, and his compensation for it. If people just weren't so damn whiny. Remember the good old days, three months or so back, when Obama got blasted for calling people "bitter"? Gee, you don't suppose this economic mess might be a reason for that, do you?

caw

I know, right?