Tor Publishing - Unsolicited MS?

[Mike Martyn]

According to their website they accept unsolicited MS. Any body dealt with them?

Tor did/does publish a lot of SF. One of the joys of my childhood was getting one of their SF double books. You'd read one book and turn it over and there was a second book, cover and all.

[Medievalist]

Yes, they do read unsolicited ms. and I know of at least one author published by Tor who was rescued from the slush pile. You can't find a better publisher in terms of quality editing, and reputation. If I were a writer, that's the place I'd want to be published for SF and fanstasy. Tor even uses better quality paper, and binding materials, than some other also reputable publishers, and they publish some of the best SF and fantasy I've ever read. But first, you need to read Slushkiller (http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004641.html), including the comments. The author, Teresa Nielsen Hayden, is a Tor editor.

[alaskamatt17]

Yes, they do read unsolicited mss. I made it out of the slush pile there, but wasn't able to secure a deal with the editor who liked my book. Looking back on it, it's actually a good thing because that work was nowhere near as interesting as my current WIP, and I'm fairly certain it never had the potential to be any kind of bestseller.

[Kate Nepveu]

Tor is one of the most well-regarded publishers in the field, and I know of at least three authors they've published out of the slush (Maureen McHugh, Jo Walton, Stephan Zielinski, just off the top of my head). They have been working to improve their response times to slush.

[MacAllister]

I have a friend who recently subbed unsolicited to them--his manuscript was rejected, but he had good things to say about their response time.

[Dru]

I'd heartily recommend that you take a while and check out:
http://www.neilgaiman.com/journal/2005/01/everything-you-wanted-to-know-about.asp

Where Teresa Nielsen Hayden puts together one of the best series of resources and warning for writers from an editorial persepctive.

At a minimum, it should give you a really good feel for the standards that the Nielsen Hayden's apply at Tor. A more targetted approach, as it were.

[ChunkyC]

I might be who Mac is referring to, I submitted to Tor and was rejected.

Everything about the process was professional. I found their submission guidelines clear and easy to follow. Their response came comfortably within their stated turnaround time, and that was back here to Canada where it sometimes seems a snail with a broken foot could beat a letter across the country. The rejection notice, though a generic one, was to the point and worded in such a way that I felt they appreciated that I took the time to send my blood sweat and tears to them. They're a top-notch outfit all the way, and at least for me, the holy grail of my writing ambitions.

[MacAllister]

you ARE who I was referring to, CC. :) I was about to PM you a link to this thread to see if you wanted to weigh in!

[James D. Macdonald]

Tor's response time for unsolicited, unagented material can be very long indeed.

[SeanDSchaffer]

Believe it or not, that's where I'm sending my present finished work... unsolicited, unagented. I hope they like it. If not, I'm sure they'll let me know.

;)

I've heard a lot of good things about Tor, though. They're an imprint of St. Martin's Press, if I'm not mistaken. I found them through St. Martin's' site; that's why I made that assumption.

[dragonjax]

Tor is top-notch for fantasy and science fiction (humble opinion). I met David Hartwell, and he's a truly nice fellow. As for submissions, I'm pretty sure they are exclusive -- that is, if you submit to Tor, you cannot submit the same MS elsewhere until you hear back from Tor.

[mdin]

Tor's response time for unsolicited, unagented material can be very long indeed.

And when he says long, he means longer than you think.

[victoriastrauss]

I know of people who have been waiting more than two years to hear back from Tor. Ditto for Baen.

Some people have better luck. Even so, IMO, it's not worth it to submit to any of the major SF/fantasy imprints unagented, unless you personally know an editor there who will be waiting for your ms. when you send it.

Stories about people plucked from the Tor slushpile, though heartwarming, are misleading. They represent a very, very small minority. Most writers who sell to Tor--and other SF/fantasy imprints--do so through agents, or are already established writers.

- Victoria

[James D. Macdonald]

Most writers who sell to Tor--and other SF/fantasy imprints--do so through agents, or are already established writers.

I think you'll find this is true of any of the major houses that accept unagented submissions.

Getting an agent first is a clever plan. (I'm guessing here, but I think there are something like ten times more legitimate agents than there are major publishiers.)

What you really need to get a good agent is a good manuscript. Nothing is more important.

[brinkett]

What you really need to get a good agent is a good manuscript. Nothing is more important.
A good query letter is more important. Without it, no agent ever sees the manuscript. There are some who accept sample pages with the initial query, but their numbers are dwindling.

About your suggested two pronged approach: if you approach agents and publishers at the same time, what happens if you do manage to get an agent and your manuscript is sitting in a slush pile somewhere? For example, let's say you submit to Tor while you're querying agents. Since Tor may not get back to you for months (perhaps over a year), it's possible you might find an agent in the meantime. Does the agent have Tor find your manuscript if Tor is a publisher they would normally approach, or can they not approach Tor at all since you've already submitted your ms on your own (I'm just using Tor as an example)? I like the two pronged approach suggestion--just wondering about this one potential wrinkle.

[victoriastrauss]

Since Tor may not get back to you for months (perhaps over a year), it's possible you might find an agent in the meantime. Does the agent have Tor find your manuscript if Tor is a publisher they would normally approach, or can they not approach Tor at all since you've already submitted your ms on your own (I'm just using Tor as an example)?Another concern: if Tor has rejected your manuscript, it won't want to see it again. So from an agent's point of view, you've just closed off one major sales avenue. Given the very small number of commercial SF/fantasy publishers, that's a concern. Several rejections might make you much less attractive to an agent.

- Victoria

[brinkett]

That's a good point. Perhaps the approach works better when there are more markets for the work.

[James D. Macdonald]

A good query letter is more important. Without it, no agent ever sees the manuscript.

Without a good manuscript the best query letter in the world won't do you a lick of good.

[brinkett]

I agree. But as far as getting an agent goes, if you don't have a good query letter, it doesn't matter how good your manuscript is because nobody will ask to read it. Once they've agreed to read it, then yes, the manuscript better be good.

[Paolo]

Hi. I'm glad to find this thread. I find it soothing somehow...

I submitted my first novel to Tor two months ago. I included a self-addressed, stamped postcard with the chapter samples as instructed in their submission faq. I haven't recieved this postcard. I'm trying to figure out what this means. Unfortunately, Submission Anxiety prevented my from getting a good 'ole traking number from the USPS.

Does it square with the experience of others that they don't get the self addressed postcards back from TOR? Should I write another letter asking them if they recieved my manuscript? Also, do all unsolicited manuscripts end up on the slush pile?

Ok, I'm going to get back to tapping away at the Great American Science Fiction Novel.

I look forward to talking to you all later.

Paolo

[James D. Macdonald]

Yes, all unsolicited manuscripts wind up in the slush pile. That's what slush is.

They may not have even opened the package yet. Who knows these things?

[Paolo]

They may not have even opened the package yet. Who knows these things?

Me. I'm supposed to know these things. I'm to know when they've opened the package and pulled stuff out when I recieve the stamped postcard (http://www.tor.com/torfaq.html#submitting) that my trembling little hand wrote its home address on. I guess I can assume they haven't opened the package yet because I haven't recieved the postcard.

That's cool, I can stew in that circular logic and make myself crazy while I continue to improve my Great American Sci Fi Novel. Onward and upward!

Wait, hold the phone, I've found my manuscript! There it is (http://www.sfrevu.com/ISSUES/2002/0208/Event%20-%20Tor/20020416%20Tor-NYC%20059.jpg), down there on the bottom.

[azbikergirl]

Oh that's scary. That sure doesn't look like a FIFO system!

[zizban]

I was just reading an interview with the Nielsen Haydens and they said its usually takes six months for them to even look at their slush pile, never mind read it. Mr.Hayden says if his assistant reads from the slush and like its he'll read the first fourty pages and decide then and there if he likes it. He said a book thatgets pulled from the slush for acceptance will draw him in within the first four pages.

[Kate Nepveu]

I was just reading an interview with the Nielsen HaydensDo you have a link?

[Paolo]

I was just reading an interview with the Nielsen Haydens and they said its usually takes six months for them to even look at their slush pile, never mind read it. Mr.Hayden says if his assistant reads from the slush and like its he'll read the first fourty pages and decide then and there if he likes it. He said a book thatgets pulled from the slush for acceptance will draw him in within the first four pages.

Ok, all this is good. This gives me a better idea of what is involved. There is no reason for me to sit here and wait and I won't.

Six months is a long time and I'll use it to refine my story and make it better.

Another question I had was about "simultaneous submissions". Does the publisher really expect you to submit one manuscript to one publisher every six months? What happens if one should decide to send out the manuscript to more than one house at a time? Considering the odds , what's the worst that could happen?

[zizban]

from 2000. Here is the link:
http://www.sfwa.org/bulletin/articles/pnh_ds.html

[Paolo]

from 2000. Here is the link:
http://www.sfwa.org/bulletin/articles/pnh_ds.html


That's a great link with good insight. Thanks!


I'll choose to believe that the TOR slushpile throughput has improved over the 4 or 5 years since that article was published.

I'm just grateful that TOR books accepts unsolicited manuscripts at all. While I appreciate the opportunity, I'm looking for others and I'm not stopping till my Great American Science Fiction Novel is published. :Hammer:

[James D. Macdonald]

Six months is a long time and I'll use it to refine my story and make it better.

No. Spend that six months writing your next book.


Another question I had was about "simultaneous submissions". Does the publisher really expect you to submit one manuscript to one publisher every six months? What happens if one should decide to send out the manuscript to more than one house at a time? Considering the odds , what's the worst that could happen?

The worst that could happen is that both accept it.

Given that if a book is publishable by one it's publishable by many, this isn't as unlikely as you might think.

If you want to send out sim-subs, only do it to places that say it's okay in their guidelines, and make sure your cover letter mentions that it is a sim-sub.

[Jamesaritchie]

Ok, all this is good. This gives me a better idea of what is involved. There is no reason for me to sit here and wait and I won't.

Six months is a long time and I'll use it to refine my story and make it better.

Another question I had was about "simultaneous submissions". Does the publisher really expect you to submit one manuscript to one publisher every six months? What happens if one should decide to send out the manuscript to more than one house at a time? Considering the odds , what's the worst that could happen?

UJ is right. Spend the next six months writing your next book. If there's room for significant changes in this book, they should be done before you submit it. And the editor may not like the "refinements" you make. Once this novel has been submitted, forget all about it and move opn to the next.

And very bad things can happen when you go the simultaneous submission route to those who don't want you to do so.

[James D. Macdonald]

If there's room for significant changes in this book, they should be done before you submit it.

Once you've started a book on its way, the only time you should revise it is if someone with a checkbook in one hand and a contract in the other says "I will buy this if you make the following changes...."

[Paolo]

UJ is right. Spend the next six months writing your next book. If there's room for significant changes in this book, they should be done before you submit it. And the editor may not like the "refinements" you make. Once this novel has been submitted, forget all about it and move opn to the next.

And very bad things can happen when you go the simultaneous submission route to those who don't want you to do so.

Ok, thanks folks. I trust your advice. Onward and upward. http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/emoticonthankyou.gif

<tonguecheek> I'll just be patient and wait for TOR to fish my Great American Epic Lesbian Amazon Warrior Space Opera Novel out of the slush pile and gasp with amazement. </tonguecheek>

[victoriastrauss]

Another question I had was about "simultaneous submissions". Does the publisher really expect you to submit one manuscript to one publisherThis is yet another reason--IMO, of course--not to approach a major publishing house unagented. Given the slooooow response times (and I think you're fooling yourself if you think the Tor slush pile situation has gotten better--it's far more likely to have gotten worse) it is just the height of inefficiency to submit to publishers that require you not to simsub. It can take as long or longer to find a good agent as to get a response from the slush, but once you do s/he can cut the waiting time down to a minimum (and send out your ms. to more than one editor at a time).

- Victoria

[ChunkyC]

Another concern: if Tor has rejected your manuscript, it won't want to see it again. So from an agent's point of view, you've just closed off one major sales avenue. Given the very small number of commercial SF/fantasy publishers, that's a concern. Several rejections might make you much less attractive to an agent.
I'm so glad it was my first novel I submitted to them. It was poor, to say the least. I don't think I would ever want to submit it to anyone else.
This is yet another reason--IMO, of course--not to approach a major publishing house unagented. Given the slooooow response times (and I think you're fooling yourself if you think the Tor slush pile situation has gotten better--it's far more likely to have gotten worse) it is just the height of inefficiency to submit to publishers that require you not to simsub. It can take as long or longer to find a good agent as to get a response from the slush, but once you do s/he can cut the waiting time down to a minimum (and send out your ms. to more than one editor at a time).
I was lucky. I heard back from Tor in about two and a half months. Then again, the book was so bad that the guy in the mailroom probably rejected it the minute it showed up. That was just before I started coming here. Another case of wish I knew then what I know now. In a nutshell, it takes a similar kind of effort to find an agent as to submit to a publisher, so why not find an agent and then let him/her take over trying to find a publisher for your work while you write.

[Susan Gable]

Ok, thanks folks. I trust your advice. Onward and upward. http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/emoticonthankyou.gif

<tonguecheek> I'll just be patient and wait for TOR to fish my Great American Epic Lesbian Amazon Warrior Space Opera Novel out of the slush pile and gasp with amazement. </tonguecheek>

Didn't they do that as a tv series? Xena, Warrior Princess? She just didn't remember where the space ship was parked.

:D

Susan G.

[Paolo]

This is yet another reason--IMO, of course--not to approach a major publishing house unagented.

Well, my thinking on this was that I'd short circuit the Catch-22, chicken vs. egg dilemma of not having an agent and not being published by, well, getting published. I selected TOR because they only wanted the first three chapters of my novel and they are willing to take a look at unpublished folks. Really decent of them. But I guess you can see that my thinking on this is not very clear and efficient at all. It's more of a shot in the dark.


Given the slooooow response times (and I think you're fooling yourself if you think the Tor slush pile situation has gotten better ....

Yup, I'm stewing pretty good here. Almost two months and not even the self-addressed postcard to confirm they opened it. Reading the Neilsen Hayden's blogs, though, it's not hard to understand why this is so. I'm climbing the learning curve.

{--it's far more likely to have gotten worse) it is just the height of inefficiency to submit to publishers that require you not to simsub. It can take as long or longer to find a good agent as to get a response from the slush, but once you do s/he can cut the waiting time down to a minimum (and send out your ms. to more than one editor at a time).

- Victoria

Well, I'm pretty certain my entire approach to this thing is pretty far off the mark. I've taken a few good baby steps, but it's dawned on me that my attitude still needs a lot of work. I'm approaching this backwards. Basically, I submitted my manuscript to see if it was "good enough" to get published. I should already believe that it's good enough and nobody can really tell me why that's in doubt. If I really believed in the work, I'd have an agent and be published already. This is the nonsense I need to stop.

I'll cast off my own baggage on my own time, but It's nice to have somewhere I can vent a little bit. And now I have some concrete advice to base definite actions on. I'm moving forward with a bunch of good help. Cool.

Onward and upward.

[victoriastrauss]

Well, my thinking on this was that I'd short circuit the Catch-22, chicken vs. egg dilemma of not having an agent and not being published by, well, getting published.Ah, the old "you can't get published without an agent and you can't get an agent without being published" thing? It's a myth. New writers with no publication credits get picked up by reputable agents all the time. Publication credits certainly do make you stand out from the crowd, and may make it more likely that your work will be read--but if your book is marketable, the fact that you haven't published before won't count against you. Honest.

I'm approaching this backwards. Basically, I submitted my manuscript to see if it was "good enough" to get published. I should already believe that it's good enough and nobody can really tell me why that's in doubt. If I really believed in the work, I'd have an agent and be published already.And if you don't believe in the work, you can't possibly be a real writer, because a real writer would have enough confidence to KNOW s/he was good enough without being told. And if you don't KNOW you're good enough without being told, that must mean you suck.

I hear you. This sort of negative self-talk is something I think all writers do (though some are more prone to it than others). Try not to indulge it, but don't beat yourself up about it. Doubt is normal.

- Victoria

[James D. Macdonald]

I remember one author who had so little confidence that she submitted her works already in the return envelope. To save the editor's time.

She got published anyway.

[Paolo]

I remember one author who had so little confidence that she submitted her works already in the return envelope. To save the editor's time.

She got published anyway.

That's cool. I think I'll get published in spite of my spotty confidence too. That sounds like a capital idea!


And if you don't believe in the work, you can't possibly be a real writer, because a real writer would have enough confidence to KNOW s/he was good enough without being told. And if you don't KNOW you're good enough without being told, that must mean you suck.


Right on. That's the stuff I need to read. Keep it comin'. I'm treating that as a set of criteria for some hard questions. The short answer is that I believe I do not suck.

In fact, I've been reading over my manuscript again and I believe that it pretty much Ruckin' Focks. I've started work on the sequel.

I'm going to get published in spite of myself.

I should have come here a long time ago. You folks are good for me.

[jules]

Well, my thinking on this was that I'd short circuit the Catch-22, chicken vs. egg dilemma of not having an agent and not being published by, well, getting published. I selected TOR because they only wanted the first three chapters of my novel and they are willing to take a look at unpublished folks. Really decent of them. But I guess you can see that my thinking on this is not very clear and efficient at all. It's more of a shot in the dark.

You do realise that publisher's guidelines that say "no simultaneous submissions" don't mean that you can't submit to an agent at the same time, right? They just don't want to decide to buy the book only to find you've sold it to somebody else already. There's no reason you shouldn't be trying both approaches at once.

[Roger J Carlson]

Ah, the old "you can't get published without an agent and you can't get an agent without being published" thing? It's a myth. New writers with no publication credits get picked up by reputable agents all the time. Publication credits certainly do make you stand out from the crowd, and may make it more likely that your work will be read--but if your book is marketable, the fact that you haven't published before won't count against you. Honest.But, but, but...

In the article quoted above: http://www.neilgaiman.com/journal/2...-know-about.asp Neil Gaiman quotes Tor's Teresa Nielsen Hayden, to wit: If you're writing fiction, the True Secret Answer is "get an offer." If you've got an offer, you can get an agent. If you don't have an offer, you don't want the kind of agent you're likely to get.

a. If you're good enough to get published, having an agent may prove helpful. If you aren't (yet), you definitely don't want the kind of agent you're going to get.I'm not discounting your expertise, but there is a LOT of contradictory advice out there.

[LightShadow]

Some writers succeed using slush piles, and vanity presses, and so forth, but you're odds to be a successful writer with the right publisher representing your work is by using an agent. They may get 15%, but you make so much more in the long run in the terms of money, marketing, editing, and quality submissions. By the way, agents only make money if you make money. If they want money up front, they are probably a scam.

www.geocities.com/douglasvgibbs

[Paolo]

Ok, so to my thinking, that's still the chicken and egg circle.

I accept as fact that an agent is the way to go. So how does an unproved entity in the industy's eyes get recognized? Should I trying to approach an agent with my work instead of a publisher?

I believe my work has a market. The stuff I'm working on right NOW is getting sh**-tons better. I'm ready go go. How do I get the right people believe this also?

I guess I'm looking for allies. I've found a bunch of allies here, but we are on the other side. It's us and them. How do we make the them look at the us?

[LightShadow]

Research is the number one key. An agent or publisher that specializes in, say, romance, isn't going to accept a children's novel. Research, submit a mess load of queries, and treat it all like a business. And yes, approach the agents before the publishers. A good agent will get you the best publisher for your work. Also, an agent will get you the best deal through negotiation that a publisher may never otherwise offer you. It's a tough business. Once I had a shortstory that got to the head editor but was still rejected. He told me in his letter that this particular magazine received 3,200 stories by unpublished writers per month, and they could only publish one per month. Makes the odds tough. So the answer is not that you need allies. You need to outshine. Tweak the interest where others couldn't. And don't give up. Sometimes the rejection is not an answer of "no." Sometimes it means "not at this time," or "it's good, but not the kind of stuff we publish."

www.geocities.com/douglasvgibbs

[Jamesaritchie]

But, but, but...

In the article quoted above: http://www.neilgaiman.com/journal/2...-know-about.asp Neil Gaiman quotes Tor's Teresa Nielsen Hayden, to wit:I'm not discounting your expertise, but there is a LOT of contradictory advice out there.

I think the concensus is moving away from what Teresa Nielsen Hayden says. A few years ago, I think her advice was dead on. I don't think it's good advice now.

Too many publishers have now closed the door against unsolicited manuscripts and unagented writers. Only a handful of publishers remain that you can approach without an agent, and many of those almost never buy from unagented writers, even though they look. A couple of publishers who will look at unagented manuscripts haven't bought one in two decades or more.

And good agents do take on new, unpublished writers all the time. This, too, wasn't always the case. Not too many years ago, top agents expected you to either be published, or to have an offer on the table, before you approached them. Now it's just too difficult getting published, or receiving an offer, without an agent.

God love Teresa Nielsen Hayden. Just about everything she says is pure gold. But I do think this is one area where her advice is no longer valid. Simply put, there's no way to get an offer unless the publisher will read your manuscript, and darned few good publishers will do so now.

[Jamesaritchie]

I guess I'm looking for allies. I've found a bunch of allies here, but we are on the other side. It's us and them. How do we make the them look at the us?

I think a case can be made for publishers and writers being us and them. I don't think this is true for writers/editors and writers/agents.

Agents and editors really are, from my experience, on the writer's side. Agents and editors really do want to like your work, and really do want it to be good. They want to believe in it. Agents soon go broke without writers, and editors soon find themselves unemployed unless they can find new, good writers.

The ball is always in the writer's court. It's up to us to write queries, synopses, outlines, partials, and full manuscripts that give agents and editors a reason to believe, a reason to ally themselves with us. I'm not sure what else we could rightfully ask.

[LightShadow]

Ultimately, you have to give them something they can sink their teeth into. Don't be like all of the other writers. Tweak their interest. Be unique. Be original. Maybe even be daring while still putting something out that the mainstream wants. There's no conspiracy against new writers. It's just a matter of putting out your best stuff, and being persistent.

[JuliePgh]

So what happens if you go the route of submitting to Tor and to agents simultaneously, then an agent shows interest in your ms? When the writer informs the agent that he/she has already submitted the ms to Tor (or elsewhere), does the agent decide "she's tied my hands, I can't work with her"?

[James D. Macdonald]

When the writer informs the agent that he/she has already submitted the ms to Tor (or elsewhere), does the agent decide "she's tied my hands, I can't work with her"?

I know the answer to this question, because I've seen what happens, and it happened with Tor.

The agent calls up the editor on the phone and says, "You know that manuscript you've had in your slush pile for eight months? I represent that author. I'd appreciate hearing your offer."

The agent can either move the manuscript to the top of the to-read pile, or can withdraw it.

Where things get more tickleish is if the manucript has been rejected. Once a manuscript has been rejected it's usually not going to be reconsidered (without a substantial rewrite).

What happens then is the agent has to consider all the other publishers first.

That still leaves a scrunch and a half of publishers.

Remember that a book that's publishable by one is publishable by many.

[LightShadow]

but research . . . check out http://www.anotherealm.com/prededitors/ .

[Paolo]

Well, come 6/11, it will be exactly four months of fingernail munching since I submitted my manuscript to Tor.

I have zero ideas as to what it means that I've heard zip from them, not even the self-addressed postcard included with the manuscript. I guess it's just part of the process. According to their FAQ, if I haven't heard anything from them in four months, they will respond to a letter asking about the status of my submission.

My question is this. How do I write a letter that will get a response? Should the envelope itself carry a message like "submission status request" or be day-glo orange or something? Maybe the letter should be in memo form with RE: submission or something like that?

Basically, how do I get a response and how long should I wait before I forget about TOR and submit to another house?

I'm not giving up not matter what. My book WILL be published.

Take care folks.

[JuliePgh]

I'm hardly the voice of experience, but on a children's writing board I'm part of, some of the writers send query status letter with a SASP (Self Addressed Stamped Postcard) enclosed. The SASP lists the basics. i.e... That this is a status query for "NOVEL ABC" by "Fred Jones" then give several check boxes, such as:

Manuscript has not yet been reviewed
Manuscript is currently under review
Manuscript was never received
Manuscript has been rejected
Other ______________

Form Completed by: ________

You can word it better, I'm sure. This is off the top of my head.

If this is sent in a #10 envelop as opposed to a thick manilla, it should not go the same route as the manuscript, I would hope. Perhaps they read through the non-manuscript letters in a timely manner. I personally would write "STATUS QUERY" on the outside, lower left corner of the envelop, then make the letter itself VERY short, pointing out the SASP for their use.

[Unimportant]

Basically, how do I get a response and how long should I wait before I forget about TOR and submit to another house?


At the 4 - 5 month point, you send them a letter asking for a status update, including a SASE or SASP for their reply. Address it to whoever you originally sent the ms to.

If you get no response within 6 weeks (plus however long you expect letters to take to go to/from where you live), you send another letter. If you get no response again after 6 weeks, you send your ms elsewhere.

Alternatively, you use the ms to fish for an agent while it moulders at TOR.

In my experience with this publisher, form rejections from partial subs (3 chapters) take 4 - 11 months to receive. Response times for full (solicited) mss will probably (hopefully!) vary greatly depending on the particular editor, so 3 1/2-years-and-still-waiting-with-no-response-to-multiple-queries may just be my particular bad luck, and not the norm.

[kybudman]

Generally speaking, I could not agree with you more. And I especially am gratified by your last paragraph. Superbly put.

[arodriguez]

just curious about the submissions to tor:


how many pages was your synopsis?

how many pages was your ms?

[allenparker]

I remember one author who had so little confidence that she submitted her works already in the return envelope. To save the editor's time.

She got published anyway.

I've done that. Not that I doubted my work, but it was an easy way to make sure I had enough postage and that the envelop was large enough.

Just a thought... Allen