Someone please help my cats (and children!)

[Haggette]

My family includes myself, my husband, our three wonderful children, and our two cats, Crookshanks and Minerva (we didn't know she was a he when we named her so we decided to do a little gender-reassignment.) About three years ago we had another cat, Tir-NaNog. Tirny had very high anxiety and a problem with urinating everywhere. The other cats were so mean to Tirny that we had to place her in another home. It was heart-breaking but it was what she needed. Unfortunately, our other cats picked up the peeing everywhere habit and we have been completely unsuccessful in stopping it. The peeing has escalated over the past three years and is now a serious hygeine issue. They have even taken to peeing on the kids beds. I have read and implemented all suggestions from vets, pet store owners and employees, websites, friends.... Nothing has worked. I can not allow this to continue. I can't imagine getting rid of Crooky and Minnie. I'm starting to cry just thinking about it. This is my last chance to keep them. Does anyone have any suggestions for ending this peeing problem. Please! Nothing is too silly or strange. I will try anything.

[veinglory]

Perhaps you could say what you have tried?

Once territoriality/intercat aggression sets in cats can be very tough to retrain on this--it looks to me like this is the most likely cause here? Basically they stop being a group of cats living together and start trying to be single cats with their own territoty within the house.

Things that might help:
-if males are not neutered, do so
-spray areas they target with cats aversives, petsmart sells several effecitve brands.
-have a litter box for every cat
-Have hidyholes for ever cat, perhaps several per cat (e.g. boxes with a corner cut out or a high up perch).
-when they start to pee if you see it carry them to littler box
-keep cats in separate rooms for a while separated by something like a babygate and allow them to resocialise gradually. Or try giving them separate litter and feeding areas so they can successfully choose to avoid each other.

[CatSlave]

Try Feliway: http://feliwaycat.com/

[Haggette]

Thank you, both.
They are both neutered. We have used 4 different brands of aversives. We have a litter box for each. We've carried them to the litter box. We had hidyholes for both but neither cat used them. They play and socialize very well together -- including snuggling up to eachother to sleep.

[Haggette]

Catslave: Have you used the diffuser kit? I will definitely give that a try.

[veinglory]

Are the litter boxes in different rooms? If the hideyholes are not being used they are not effective. One that tends to work very well is a box for photocopy paper, turned upside down with a door hole and the top flipped over and taped on top. I then tend to put it in a closet with the door cracked open. Cats are central place territorial. If the have a snug den they do tend to calm down the peeing. But it can take a while to make something they consider secure. I had one cat that would only feel safe on top of the fridge, that took a while to discover but sorted out his ankle-biting (literally) issues.

[wombat]

Have you tried different types of litter and different types of boxes? Some cats don't like covered boxes, some vice versa, and some don't like certain types of litter. Also, I wonder if just changing those elements might work in this case - just use something different than when the old cat was around - try breaking the association with the bad old days.

For the same reason, try putting the boxes in new places. Cats will develop an aversion to a box if something unpleasant happens near it - knock over a chair one time and you might have to move your box. If cat fights occurred near the old boxes that might have the same effect.

Also, you say you've talked to vets but just to make sure - cats peeing outside of boxes should always be checked for bladder problems.

[heyjude]

Feliway worked wonders for us when we had a similar (but not as bad) problem. We used the spray and a diffuser. It's expensive, very, but worth every penny.

A friend with the same problem put a litter box on each floor. She put one in her bathroom and presto! All of a sudden the cat started going in that litter box. She's never had a problem again. Who knows why?!

I'm so sorry you're going through this. Keep us posted.

[AndreaGS]

I've heard it's best to have one more litterbox than you have cats.

Feliway works for some people - it's expensive, but not as much if you buy it off of ebay.

Try changing up the litter - sometimes they just decide they DON'T want to use a particular litter, for no real reason. Have you tried the Cat Attract litter? It's worked for me before.

Very thoroughly clean the areas the cats have peed. Enzymatic cleaners, such as Nature's Miracle, tend to work best.

Good luck! I've had this happen to me, and now my cat faithfully uses the litterbox again. Who knows what caused it? Just know that there is a light at the end of the tunnel!

[Haggis]

Bump.

Anyone else? I can't stand to see my grandspawn cry. :e2cry:

[Use Her Name]

Although people will say I am a freak and wrong have you thought of keeping them in a large cage? At least when you cannot supervise? Many apartment dwelling folks with small dogs will litter box train the dogs and keep them in a kennel while they are not there to supervise. If people can do it with dogs, why not cats? I have some cats who will not use the litter pan. I keep it clean. They are either going to the vet for a shot, or they will be placed in a cage (parrot sized). If you have a porch, you can make a cat run, (using chicken wire) and keep them outside till the winter. They may even prefer to do their business outside.

[Thrillride]

Thank you, both.
They are both neutered. We have used 4 different brands of aversives. We have a litter box for each. We've carried them to the litter box. We had hidyholes for both but neither cat used them. They play and socialize very well together -- including snuggling up to eachother to sleep.

I just want to throw this out there. As a pet sitter by trade, I have seen a lot of this. People try different things, sometimes they work. Sometimes they work for a while...sometimes nothing works. This has also happened with my friend's cats and also my sister-in-law's cat.

My friend ended up finding her cats a home. That would be very hard for me, bt she has some extremely expansive furniture and her house was starting to permanantly smell as well. So, I understood it. My sister-in-law
now has her cat living outside and in the garage. She figured she still wanted to keep her kitty and she also was tired of things getting ruined inside.

He cat was nervous about it at first, but had completely adapted to the new lifestyle. his is the option i would turn to if I had this problem.

Anyway, just a thought.

[Fern]

Your living situation might make a difference in advice given. Do your cats stay in all the time or do they go outside sometimes. Do you have any outside space they can be?

We have an inside cat, but live in the country. We don't have a litter box at all (although we did keep one in the house when he was a kitten). He goes to the door or comes to me to let him outside. I'm wondering if there is a way you could leave them outside (either loose or in some kind of run, depending on situation) except when you
or a family member is going to be paying close attention to them - don't give them a chance to use the bathroom in the house at all if you can help it. You could fix a spot in their run to place their litter box until they get used to going in the box again. Slowly move it back into the house.

If they absolutely have to stay in the house all the time, I think I would choose one room for them to stay in (litter box available) and let them out of that room as mentioned above, just for cuddling and playtime at your convenience. Once you see they are using the box regularly you might slowly let them back in the rest of the house for longer periods of time until they are always going back to their litter box.

[oarsman]

You might want to try keeping the litter box completely clean. We had a cat that would use the carpet if the the boxes weren't completely scooped out and clean.

We also put solid air fresheners (like Renuzit) in each location where the cat frequently went. The fresh smell turned him off from using the spot again.

[Haggette]

A very grateful thank you to all who have responded! I am implementing several of these suggestions and will be certain to update you all on the situation. Again, thank you for taking the time to help me out. We love our cats and can't imagine our home without them.

[heyjude]

Hey, Haggette, one more thought. Have you gone to Best Friends Animal Society for help? (www.bestfriends.org) They have SO much good info on just this kind of thing. And if you email them they usually get back to you in a day or two with lots of good stuff.

Keep us posted!

[veinglory]

Anothing thing to try is just massive amounts of distractions while phazing in other changes, what every works with your cats--catnip, cardboard scratching boards etc?

[CATastrophe]

Might I suggest something completely different? You could try an energy based therapy on them. Animal Energy Healing (http://www.animal-eft.org/) might be something you'd like to read up on. It's easy to do and there are instructions on the website as well as people to consult there.

PM me if you have other questions, as I don't get by here every day.

I know this works, as it worked for a friend of mine. Her cat was aggressive.

Good luck!

You might also want to try Bach's Flower remedies. You can google it and get lots of hits.

[Fern]

Never thought of using Bach flower remedies on a cat, but I'm telling you I can't say enough good about them for people! Wonderful stuff.

Have heard of giving horses mimulus drops to help with nervousness.

[catwoods]

I'm only able to check in once in awhile and so I just saw this thread. There have been some good suggestions especially about the Feliway diffuser. Cats are territorial and do often use urine for dominance displays. But also, I have read in cat behavior books that once any cat urinates in an area, the others then associate it with urine and will return to it for that purpose. Although we clean it up and WE can't smell it, with their sensitive noses, they can still detect the prior urine, even after years have passed. They are either using the "customary" place, as the noses tell them, or scent-marking over another cat's prior scent-marking.

It takes a special kind of cleaner to remove the scent entirely so that the feline noses can't smell it. Sorry I don't have the name at my fingertips but it should be available at pet supply stores or on pet supply web sites. I think this is an "enzymatic" cleaner. It probably comes in several brands.

Hope this helps and best of luck to you. I love my three kitties, too.

Sorry I failed to notice last night that this has already been suggested. However, most of the behavior books seem to suggest it is one of the most important factors. I personally don't have experience with these products.

[shawkins]

I've never had a cat peeing problem, but my dogs have been known to mark territory inappropriately. When that happens I put about 1/4 cup of bleach in a carpet steamer and run it over the house.

The bleach smell isn't noticeable after the first hour, but it seems to deter them for a month or so. Does my (light) carpet a world of good as well.

Good luck.

[Stlight]

You may not realize it if a neighboring cat is spraying your front or back or both doors and this will make your males nuetered or not pee every where. In case one is and you can't see or smell it, use the feliaway and deorderizers on the doors I'd got a couple of feet up and across the bottom.

I had a nuetered male who did this for ten years. I had other fixed males who never did it. Couldn't get the one who did it to stop. After he died, I found out about the neighbor's fixed male who got everyone's doors front and back every morning and every night, if he knew the people, the cats or the dogs there. The vet thought that might have been setting him off. He did pee on my foot when a strange male cat walked through his yard.

White vinger helps put it in rinse water for laundry. Baking soda (oridinary not the fancy stuff) rubbed into the rugs so you can't see it. let it sit for three days before vaccuuming.


Stlight

[Stlight]

Right I forgot, apparently ammonia based cleaners smell like gigantic cat peed there and your cats will pee the more on it.
Had cats so long pretty much forgot the stuff exists.



I found the Bach flower remedies, and get the real ones, worked well especially with abused animals or those who were worn out when I got them. I see no reason why it wouldn't work for jealousy. You may be having readjustment problems. My cat that kept peeing everywhere was neutered, but not quite right in the head. He had an unfortunate life before I got him.

Stlight