Help With Political Intrigue and Court Intrigue

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Nightfall

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Edited for clarity and a little redirection:

Tell me something about your favorite intrigue scenarois. I'm working on a traditional fantasy novel and I want to include political/court intrigue. The ideas I'm sketching out aren't as twisty and complex as I'd like so I'd like to hear about your favorite kinds of political or court intrigues.

If you give me examples like GRRM's or Tolkien's books, you'll have to give me the gist of it because I didn't care for either series (for various reasons) and didn't finish them.
 
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SPMiller

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I'm pretty much baffled at your inability to get through Martin's political intrigue. If the best example in recent history doesn't work for you, and if you doubt you can write anything interesting, then why bother trying? Pick a different type of story.
 

Polenth

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In your place, I'd be getting some European history books. There's plenty of political intrigue in those.
 

DWSTXS

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I once met a japanese businessman, an attorney, and he worked with the current ruling party in Japan.
His mentor had 2 sets of business cards printed up, except that one set had an extra letter on one of the words. In and of itself it meant nothing, as the word was correct with both spellings. However, they gave the cards with the extra letter out to friends that were on 'their' side of the debate, others, (the attorneys and politicians that they couldn't trust) they gave the other cards.
It was standard practice when you met with someone, that they presented your card back to you, at the beginning of the meeting. They are used as a gain entry type of ticket. No one could get a meeting unnanounced that way.
His fellow attorneys and politicians had his cards too, both sets, and if they wanted him to meet with someone who could help their cause, they gave the 'correct' card, and said go see so and so, and tell him I sent you.

When my friend met these people, he knew that they could be trusted. If someone showed up with the incorrect card, it was known that they were not to be trusted.
 

sassandgroove

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Well fantasy, like all art, reflects life. Study some real intrigue. Historical and current. It's everywhere. Heck, watch Law & Order.
 

Nightfall

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Polenth,
I have quite a few European history books but they focus more on the sociological atmoshpere of the time rather than the political. I'll have to shift the focus to politics and see if I can turn up what I'm looking for. Thanks.

DWSTXS,
Japanese culture is fascinating and I've really been enjoying waht I've been learning about it. It'll be a great source for different material. Thanks.

sassandgroove,
So, what's your favorite kind of intrigue storyline? :)
 

Smiling Ted

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Edited for clarity and a little redirection:

Tell me something about your favorite intrigue scenarois. I'm working on a traditional fantasy novel and I want to include political/court intrigue. The ideas I'm sketching out aren't as twisty and complex as I'd like so I'd like to hear about your favorite kinds of political or court intrigues.

If you give me examples like GRRM's or Tolkien's books, you'll have to give me the gist of it because I didn't care for either series (for various reasons) and didn't finish them.

Why not start with a movie? The Lion in Winter with Peter O'Toole, Katharine Hepburn, and Anthony Hopkins.

Melodrama and court intrigue at its finest!
 

MattW

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Read about the political intrigue that went into electing Popes or Holy Roman Emperors.
 

sunandshadow

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My favorite historical fantasies are romance novels, so my favorite bits of political intrigue are usually the ones with romantic potential. There's the arranged marriage of course, which may be occurring for several interesting reasons: the one being acquired (usually but not necessarily the bride) may have some magic power which is key to the other's villainous plans, and he may have engineered circumstances such that her family owed a debt to him for which she is the payment, or her guardian may have a dark secret for which the other is blackmailing him. Or a drunk gambler may wager his child's hand in marriage. Or a captured enemy mage or general may have skills the king wants, so they must be given to a loyal noble who can keep them under control and cooperative. Sometimes the older more powerful person is gay but needs to produce an heir, so a 'bridegroom' may be chosen for his ability to bear a child - perhaps he has healing magic or is a shapeshifter who can be either male or female or has nonhuman blood.

Then there are inheritance plots - there's often a triangle between a father, a legitimate son, and a bastard halfblood son (where the halfblood is the sympathetic character and one of the other two is his enemy, one his ally. Personally I prefer making the legit son the ally and the father the enemy because there's more internal conflict and angst if you do it that way. For example the legitimate brother is a nobleman or someone important in society, and he makes the halfblood brother his right hand man of some variety, so the halfblood is torn between being grateful that his brother helps him and isn't prejudiced against him, and jealous if the halfblood is a natural leader type who chafes at being his younger brother's sidekick, or maybe if the younger brother had never been born the halfblood would have inherited everything the other has. You could throw some half-sibling incest into the mix too, either between the brothers or if there's a sister too. Or simple romantic rivalry if the brothers both like the same young noblewoman.

Women's lib plots are good too - the woman who dresses in drag to become a dragonrider or go to the royal mage academy or hang around with her crush. Leading to mistaken identity plots, even better. Or there's the tomboy who refuses pressure to marry and wear gowns and runs away to go on an adventure. Sometimes also the fat young woman who is sick of abuse and being underestimated. She may become the warlady of a castle that a hero is supposed to be taking command of, or she may use legal or magical traps to win a brains over brawn scenario, and/or use psychology to gain sudden popularity and/or wealth.

Magic gone wrong and magical practical jokes are also great fun, although they aren't specifically intrigue.
 

Nightfall

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Smiling Ted,
Oooh! That looks good, thank you for suggesting it.

Sassangrove,
Yes, like that! The write up I just read for Curse of the Golden Flower is a great example of the type of complex and twisty intrigues I'd like to learn how to create. I really like the how all the little pieces fit together and intertwine and then turn back upon each other. Thank you!
P.S. I couldn't think of Hamlet and the first google item to come up was Curse of the Golden Flower and it fit so well. Hee.

Matt W,
Ooh, yes, religious intrigues, those are good (in fiction). There should be quite a lot of reference material available too. Thanks for the suggestion.
 
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MattW

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I would also suggest multiple factions with interests that only narrowly align, and individuals with ulterior or personal motives outside of their faction. I hate when political intrigue is binary good-evil or selfless-greedy. More gray areas is what GRRM has - though you start off hating mostly everyone, and only come around for a few.

Think coalition parliaments instead of US party politics.
 

Nightfall

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sunandshadow,
I like your suggestions and I enjoy the light and fun romancy type intrigues too. :)
Do you read Georgette Heyer? If not, she wrote Regency romances that are fun, romantic adventures with some of those elements in. No fantasy elements though.
 

mscelina

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The best modern fantasy novels (IMHO) for court and political intrigue in a fantasy setting would be the five (soon to be six) books in Jacqueline Carey's Kushiel's Dart series. Very complex and intricate.
 

Memnon624

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Try Glen Cook's The Black Company. The in-fighting and intrigue between the uber-powerful wizards known as the Ten-Who-Were-Taken and their mistress, the Lady, is quite good (and seen from the POV of a soldier in an elite mercenary company). I'd also suggest giving Machiavelli's The Prince a read-through, along with Dumas' The Three Musketeers.

Hope this helps!

Scott
 

Nightfall

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Matt W,
"I would also suggest multiple factions with interests that only narrowly align, and individuals with ulterior or personal motives outside of their faction. I hate when political intrigue is binary good-evil or selfless-greedy. More gray areas is what GRRM has - though you start off hating mostly everyone, and only come around for a few."

I like multiple fatctions and the ulterior and personal motives a lot. I agree with you, I'm not into the Good Vs. Evil etc. either because it's a little too young for me. It feels like the older you get life grows more shades of grey.
That's why I couldn't get into GRRM's series. I'd like to see what he writes that isn't part of that series though.

mscelina,
I've heard a lot of praise for the Kusiel's series but I've kind of skated around it because I'd also heard it had a lot of graphic sex. How bad is it? I prefer fade to black sex scenes, 'cause, ya know, I get it and don't need to be walked through the whole thing. :D

Memnon624,
Good books!
I loved the first Black Company trilogy and The Three Musketeers. It's been ages since I read them. I know where the Dumas' are but I'll have to dig for the Black Co.
I recently purchased a copy of Machiavelli's The Prince but haven't read it yet. Thanks for the suggestions.
 

Ruv Draba

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Tell me something about your favorite intrigue scenarois. I'm working on a traditional fantasy novel and I want to include political/court intrigue. The ideas I'm sketching out aren't as twisty and complex as I'd like so I'd like to hear about your favorite kinds of political or court intrigues.
I felt like starting with some definitions.

Politics is the process of group decision-making, the authoritative allocation of values, and also the means of distributing authority and power. Intrigue is a covert or deceitful scheme, so a political intrigue is a deceitful scheme that manipulates power, values, or influences decisions. This gives a huge variety of story opportunities

The usual political intrigues I see in stories are about government (e.g. Graves' I Claudius, or Deighton's Game, Set and Match series), but there are also corporate intrigues (e.g. acquisitions, contention for positional power such as those in the TV-series Dynasty), intrigues about ideology and dogma (such as can be found in the histories of science and religion), inter- or intrafamily rivalries (e.g. in Puzo's The Godfather).

Here's what I think you need for a good political intrigue:
  1. A crucible - a place in which the intrigue will occur
  2. Rivals - two or more groups competing for power
  3. A balance of power - some starting state that preceded the particular intrigue
  4. An issue - a point over which to fight. It arises from a change in the balance of power, and triggers the reason for the intrigue
  5. Overt/Covert stakes - why they say they're competing vs. why they're really competing
  6. Overt/Covert methods - how they appear to be pursuing their ends vs. how they're really doing it
  7. A countdown - either limited time or a limited range of options to force matters to crisis
Here's a hypothetical example constructed from my list above.

The Crucible: The fantasy city of Lur - old, dark and decadent, ruled by a theocracy of ancient gods.

Rivals: Priests of the gods Thog and Gar. Each god is old and largely indifferent to the Lurites but the priests know how to appease them, and wield their powers to impress the denizens of Lur. The Thoggites and Garites vie for power over a weak aristocracy and a sullen peasant class.

Balance of power: Priests of the frog-god Thog have influence over water and waterways - the rivers, sewers and the rains. Those economically dependent on water tend to support the Thoggites. Priests of the lizard-god Gar have influence over stone and minerals. Those economically dependent on mining, stonecrafting, and metals generally support the Garites.

The Issue: Following a recent disaster, refugees from Tesh have begun to flood the emptier districts of Lur. Teshites have no god, but are hard-working and economically very productive. They're changing Lurite society and therefore threatening both Thoggite and Garite priests.

Overt/Covert Stakes: Thoggites say that they're trying to help the refugees but in fact they just want converts. Garites say that they're trying to protect the economy but in fact they want the Teshites out of Lur.

Overt/Covert Methods: Thoggites are setting up accommodation, schools, work offices but in fact are separating Keshian children from their parents to indoctrinate them. Garites are increasing patrols 'for the safety of Lur' but in fact are fomenting dissent and riots.

Countdown: An already surly peasant class already has ideas of overthrowing the aristocracy and creating a new social order.

This doesn't create plot, but environment in which plot can occur. To turn it into plot, you need some specific characters and objectives. Then you tangle the objectives up in the intrigue and use the countdown to create a risk of disaster. So here's an example:
When the body of beautiful philanthropist Tolma is found gruesomely mutilated in a canal, Officer Bomen has only days to offer the mob of Lur a culprit before riots break out. But when his investigation incurs the wrath of both the Frog Temple and the Scaled Sepulchre - and with a whiff of revolution in the air - can he keep both his job and his head?
This is a log-line for the story, but doesn't really do more than sketch the highlights. Also along the way we'd expect to see things like:
  • Seduction - e.g. an offer of payment from the Thoggites to look the other way
  • Deception - e.g. a Garite priest sends Officer Bomen on a wild goose chase
  • Betrayal - e.g. the Thoggites frame an innocent for the murder rather than reveal their true intentions; Bomen's assistant is actually working for the Garites
  • Corruption - public offices betrayed by greed, lust and vice
  • Threat - e.g. threats against Bomen's job, family and life for his investigation
  • Unlikely heroes - e.g. a fire-breathing peasant revolutionary turns out to be compassionate if blunt and misunderstood
  • The High Brought Low - at least one High Priest ruined
  • The Virtuous destroyed -- perhaps Tolma's philanthropic reputation is ruined, and the revolutionary leader is martyred on his own idealism
Hope this helps! :D
 
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Dommo

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Read "The Prince" by Machiavelli.

It is still the only book one needs to read to understand how real politics work. In particular because the book was written during the end of the middle ages, it's pretty relevant to most fantasy, since they tend to take place in that time frame. I'd also recommend reading the DUNE series of sci-fi by Herbert. That book has more political intrigue than I think the real world does, but it does give a VERY realistic view of how court politics work.
 

Paichka

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mscelina,
I've heard a lot of praise for the Kusiel's series but I've kind of skated around it because I'd also heard it had a lot of graphic sex. How bad is it? I prefer fade to black sex scenes, 'cause, ya know, I get it and don't need to be walked through the whole thing. :D

The sex in the Kushiel's Legacy series is actually fairly important to the plot and the understanding of first Phedre and then Imriel, the two POV characters. Phedre is an anguisette, which in Carey's world is a person who has been marked by the epynonymous Kushiel to experience pleasure and pain together. So the sex scenes aren't conventional in the slightest, they're very BDSM/DS, and (in the process of tititating) are supposed to shed light on the complex psychological makeup of the two POV characters.

I wouldn't completely write off the series just because you aren't down with that sort of thing -- I don't think it would impact your understanding of the character (much) to skip or skim those bits. The enormous, complex and intricate plots she constructs are great examples of what you're looking for -- though I prefered the first three books (Phedre's story) to the last few (Imriel's).

Lesse...have you tried Greg Keyes? His Kingdoms of Thorn and Bone series has some good royal intrigue, and there's nary a hinky sex scene in sight. :)
 

sunandshadow

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sunandshadow,
I like your suggestions and I enjoy the light and fun romancy type intrigues too. :)
Do you read Georgette Heyer? If not, she wrote Regency romances that are fun, romantic adventures with some of those elements in. No fantasy elements though.

Glad you like them. :) I have tried to get into Heyer but the old fashioned writing (at least of the one I picked up, about a girl masquerading as a guy) left me confused and not emotionally involved. But I will second The Lion In Winter mentioned above as a wonderful movie about court intrigue.

Most of my intrigue ideas probably come from reading fanfic especially the tradition of challenges, where several writers will create stories based on the same device in the same fandom, or one author will employ the same device with several couples or fandoms, or authors will take the basic plot of one piece of fiction but fill the character roles with the cast from a different piece of fiction. For fantasy settings in particular there are a treasure-trove of generic devices that can be used in intrigue-ish ways: hypnotism or other mind control, love potions, turning someone temporarily into an animal, anonymous letters, drunkenness/druggedness/hit their head and temporarily insane, masquerade balls, blanket scenarios (blizzard, 2 characters, 1 blanket), trapped in a closet together, forced to work as partners by a higher authority, lost handcuff keys/indissoluble magic glue, bodyswitch, etc.
 

zornhau

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Edited for clarity and a little redirection:

Tell me something about your favorite intrigue scenarois. I'm working on a traditional fantasy novel and I want to include political/court intrigue. The ideas I'm sketching out aren't as twisty and complex as I'd like so I'd like to hear about your favorite kinds of political or court intrigues.

If you give me examples like GRRM's or Tolkien's books, you'll have to give me the gist of it because I didn't care for either series (for various reasons) and didn't finish them.

You might want to pick up a copy of the 48 Laws of Power - it's crammed with summaries of real intrigue and power play.
 

Dale Emery

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I'm working on a traditional fantasy novel and I want to include political/court intrigue.

My suggestion: Get to know the most powerful characters well enough that you understand the similarities differences in their desires, abilities, ethics, and habits related to gaining and wielding power.

The similarities will suggest alliances. The differences will suggest factions. The strengths of the similarities will suggest something about the strengths of the alliances and the animosities among the factions.

There will be differences among the people within each alliance, and similarities among people across faction boundaries. These will suggest possibilities internal struggles and for unsanctioned cross-faction alliances.

Stuff like that. It will arise out of the differences and similarities of the key power players.

Dale
 
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