Kindergarten Teacher Allows Students to "Vote" Child Out of Class

[Cranky]

That a teacher would do this to any student, for any reason just blows my mind. I'm looking around, but I don't see anything anywhere that this "teacher" has been suspended or reprimanded in any way for this appalling stunt.

Of course, it came to my attention as a parent of an autistic child, but again...it shouldn't happen to ANY child. This seriously chaps my ass. I mean, this is a teacher's answer to a problem in her classroom? With a FIVE YEAR OLD??

From the article: (Bolding mine)

PORT ST. LUCIE - Melissa Barton said she is considering legal action after her son's kindergarten teacher led his classmates to vote him out of class.

After each classmate was allowed to say what they didn't like about Barton's 5-year-old son, Alex, his Morningside Elementary teacher Wendy Portillo said they were going to take a vote, Barton said.

By a 14 to 2 margin, the students voted Alex -- who is in the process of being diagnosed with autism -- out of the class.


http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/treasurecoast/sfl-flpkindergartner0525pnmay25,0,2574622.story

[Mandy-Jane]

That's awful. Poor little boy. That teacher should not be allowed to continue teaching after doing that. Whatever happened to making kids feel good about themselves? I hope the mother goes ahead with her legal action.

[NikeeGoddess]

too much tv - survivor and that kids (lord of the flies) on the farm one last year has warped that teacher's mind

[Ken]

what Nikee said.

[Bird of Prey]

I can't imagine how devastating that was to the child, and it could be lasting.

The parent should sue, and sue for a lot.

[NeuroFizz]

Old rule number one of teaching - never (purposely) humiliate a student, particularly in front of other students

Making its debut on the list, as the new number one rule of teaching - never force or encourage the students in your class to humiliate a student.

A properly trained and mentally balanced teacher will not deal with frustration by being so blatantly mean to a child.

Most schools and school districts have specific "rules" for dealing with behavioral problems and it seems they were at least following one of them--having the child tested for Asperger's. But, knowing that, where was the teacher's head during this event? Where was the Principal in all this (the child had to sit in the Nurse's office for the rest of the day???)? In my mind, both the teacher's and the principal's asses should be in sittin' outside the district Superintendant's office awaiting a good paddling (of some sort). The teaching should be fired. Period. If the Principal didn't act fast on this, he/she should be demoted or fired. Period.

[robeiae]

The parent should sue, and sue for a lot.Oh gawd. They should sue, alright--sue to have the teacher's ass fired and banned from teaching. Beyond that, what? Sue the teacher for everything she'd got? Sure. Why not. But what's that? Thirty grand?

There's no "a lot" to be had, here. Yet, there will be plenty out there demanding it. As much as the teacher's actions disgust me, the response of suing for as much money as possible disgusts me even more.

[kristie911]

Disgusting. This teacher should not be allowed to teach...ever again.

[SHBueche]

Let's vote to remove the teacher from her duties.

[Bird of Prey]

Oh gawd. They should sue, alright--sue to have the teacher's ass fired and banned from teaching. Beyond that, what? Sue the teacher for everything she'd got? Sure. Why not. But what's that? Thirty grand?

There's no "a lot" to be had, here. Yet, there will be plenty out there demanding it. As much as the teacher's actions disgust me, the response of suing for as much money as possible disgusts me even more.

Well, I think there's some personal liability in this case. I think this kid will be damaged for good on this. Kids don't forget this stuff. I'm not a fan of lawsuits at all, but there's something about this incident that seems particularly cruel.

On the flip side, I think teachers have it so rough these days that a precedent for suing for personal assets probably shouldn't be set regardless. So, I suppose, rethinking it, you're probably right.

[icerose]

Cast my vote in to have the teacher removed from her teaching position.

It's one thing to quietly ask the higher chains to move him into a special class, where the teacher doesn't have to deal with him anymore.

It's something else entirely to humilate that kid, and have every child stand up and say what they don't like about that kid, then heartlessly vote him out.

Kids at that age don't have empathy, but I can pretty much guarantee you all of those kids and teacher's actions will stick with that little boy for the rest of his life. And having a condition such as autism is hard enough especially when it comes to connecting with others. What's he going to do now?

[cethklein]

I can't imagine how devastating that was to the child, and it could be lasting.

The parent should sue, and sue for a lot.

They will, and they should. The school system needs to pay for apparently allowing this idiot teacher to get off with no punishment. This is odd because usually school systems immediately fire teachers in cases like this to make themselves look like they have a strong stance against this sort of thing.

[brokenfingers]

I suppose I’ll have to be the odd man out here.

Now, I’m assuming the kid was probably being a little hellion in class. If that was the case, I thought it was a pretty good idea and something more kids need.

It teaches them that they’re responsible for their own actions and if they act like an ass, people aren’t going to like them very much.

I know from personal experience that the majority of people on this planet can’t really absorb lessons by being told but literally have to “feel” them.

I often refer to it as “feeling the pain”. And it’s mainly true when they say that without pain, there is no gain.

I would’ve done the same thing if he was totally misbehaving and wouldn’t listen. Then give him the opportunity to become a well-respected member of the class again by merely adjusting his behavior and trying to be nicer or better behaved. This reinforces the belief that he is responsible for his own actions and in control of his own destiny and that he can change for the better and be a part of society.

I would make sure he knew why they’d voted him out and that they wanted him back in again – but he was going to have to become a productive member of the class in order to do so.

I’m not of the “kids are soft, fragile, easily breakable things and let’s wrap them up in bubble wrap and have them live with us for the rest of their natural lives” school.

My boys will grow up to be strong, independent, resilient and tough members of society – not because I make them feel good about themselves or coddle them or build up their self-esteem, but because their self-esteem is naturally built over time when they overcome obstacles and face hard challenges and see that they can actually do it – without the old man.

Kids are tough. And some of the hardest lessons learned when young have become the motivation behind some of the greatest achievements accomplished by adults.

[NeuroFizz]

There is no good reason on this planet for a teacher to humiliate an elementary school student in front of the class, or to coax the class to do it as a group. There are plenty of other ways to build the necessary personal responsibility in a student, and to deal with behavioral problems. Public humiliation is never a good plan of instruction or of child rearing. Never. It happens enough in normal life (and is lesson-worthy in those cases) without it being forced by a teacher or a parent.

[brokenfingers]

Why is it humiliating for the class to express their opinion about a person's actions?

I can see if they voted him out because he looked different or due to something beyond his control. I can see if they ridiculed him or belittled him.

They merely said you are acting outside the rules and so you are not a part of the tribe until you decide to act within the agreed upon rules for participation in class.

How is it different from a time-out or being put in a corner or being sent to the principal's office?

Obviously we all have our own opinions on the matter, so we'll have to agree to disagree here. You'll never convince me that the kid was publicly humiliated. He was taught a lesson, well after other lessons hadn't had any effect.

Being videotaped while getting beat up and then having it posted on youtube? Yeah, that's being publicly humiliated. Being told by your peers that your actions are unacceptable? No.

This country is rife with victimitis and litigation fever. I see this as just another manifestation of the same.

[Southern_girl29]

Why is it humiliating for the class to express their opinion about a person's actions?

I can see if they voted him out because he looked different or due to something beyond his control. I can see if they ridiculed him or belittled him.

They merely said you are acting outside the rules and so you are not a part of the tribe until you decide to act within the agreed upon rules for participation in class.

How is it different from a time-out or being put in a corner or being sent to the principal's office?

Obviously we all have our own opinions on the matter, so we'll have to agree to disagree here. You'll never convince me that the kid was publicly humiliated. He was taught a lesson, well after other lessons hadn't had any effect.

Being videotaped while getting beat up and then having it posted on youtube? Yeah, that's being publicly humiliated. Being told by your peers that your actions are unacceptable? No.

This country is rife with victimitis and litigation fever. I see this as just another manifestation of the same.

If he has Asberger's, he can't help his behavior, so he was ridiculed and humiliated for something beyond his control. The teacher should be fired for this. It's that simple. You don't involve the class in punishment of another child anyway.

[robeiae]

I strongly disagree with the idea that this event must have--or will likely have--long-term or permanent repercussions for this child. That's just wild speculation. BF is right in that regard, imo--kids are resilient. Think about how many times groups of kids ostracize others--at all ages--refuse to allow some to play with them, etc. This is nothing new.

BUT...the teacher should not be the one propagating such behavior, imo. She should be fired.


They will, and they should. The school system needs to pay for apparently allowing this idiot teacher to get off with no punishment. This is odd because usually school systems immediately fire teachers in cases like this to make themselves look like they have a strong stance against this sort of thing.
Outrageous. You can't sue the school system--for cash--because you don't like its disciplinary actions in this case. And they don't "usually immediately fire" teachers for such things. Not at all. When they do, teachers sue--backed by the Union--and "usually" win.

[icerose]

Why is it humiliating for the class to express their opinion about a person's actions?

I can see if they voted him out because he looked different or due to something beyond his control. I can see if they ridiculed him or belittled him.

They merely said you are acting outside the rules and so you are not a part of the tribe until you decide to act within the agreed upon rules for participation in class.



Unfortunately they didn't say his behavior was unacceptable. They didn't say he was acting outside the rules. He was called disgusting among other things.

That is humiliating. Do you honestly think a kindergartener has tact? Do you honestly believe that a kindergartener who has only made one friend in his entire life and had to listen to what that one friend didn't like about him is going to be okay?

Do you honestly believe that a teacher standing a kid up in front of the class and having everyone have a go at him is a good behavior modification tool?

If so, wow.

This not only hurts this little boy, it hurts the rest of the class. They now know they can gang up on other kids, focus on the negative, and exclude kids who are different. They should instead be learning how to be friends, be sensitive, be kind, give friendship, and play nice. The teacher just undid all that.

If I were a parent of one of those kids, they would be pulled immediately and I would be going against her because I don't want my kids to learn those kinds of lessons.

[dpaterso]

Seems like everyone's forming opinions (and possibly battle lines :)) based on 1 online news item with limited and rather one-sided information. Me, I'd need to hear a lot more about this alleged incident from trusted sources before I got up a head of steam.

-Derek

[Pat~]

Why is it humiliating for the class to express their opinion about a person's actions?



In a perfect (and adult) world it wouldn't be. And this teacher may even have been well-intentioned, trying to communicate something to an autistic child who has very poor social-cue receptors. (This is the educator/special ed teacher in me speaking.)

But, unfortunately, this type of lesson has all kinds of problems in the particular situation. Just a few:

1) the teacher has no training (to my knowledge) about how to effectively 'teach' this social lesson to a child with autism or Aspberger's

2) the lesson doesn't 'fit' the simple thinking skills of 5-yr. olds. What lesson will a 5-yr. old draw from this about his own status in class?--that he can get voted out if other students don't like him, or think he's disgusting, etc. Also, that he can maybe ask the teacher tomorrow if they can vote out Tommy, because he doesn't much like Tommy, either.

3) If he is diagnosed with Asperger's, this could really have a detrimental, rather than helpful, effect on a kid with an illness in the autism spectrum. My son, diagnosed with Tourette's (closely related to that neurological spectrum) has accompanying problems with the illness, including anxiety, obsessive-compulsive behavior, ADD, learning disabilities, and depression. This same list can also accompany an Asperger's diagnosis (see link (http://www.aspergers.com/aspcomor.htm)). I can't see how that 'lesson' would help any of these problems any more than the poor social cues problem. And no, depressed kids are not resilient.

One more thing, having a whole class of kindergartners 'express their opinion about a person's behavior' is more than likely to be humiliating--simply because of their immaturity, ego-centric world view (and lack of empathy), and lack of command of the language. We can all probably think of a few early school experiences (at least I can) where even individual inappropriate responses to what we said or did caused long-remembered hurts.

[benbradley]

That's awful. Poor little boy. That teacher should not be allowed to continue teaching after doing that. Whatever happened to making kids feel good about themselves? I hope the mother goes ahead with her legal action.
Whoa. Whatever happened to Reading, Writing and Arithmetic? Okay, rereading, this is kindergarden (I may have barely seen blocks with letters on them back when I was in kindergarden), and I understand it's supposed to be about learning social skills and such (I never heard of anyone flunking kindergarden, but I might have been a good candidate), but still...

too much tv - survivor and that kids (lord of the flies) on the farm one last year has warped that teacher's mind
I immediately thought of Survivor and I've never seen the show. But let's not blame bad TV, though I personally avoid its influence...
Old rule number one of teaching - never (purposely) humiliate a student, particularly in front of other students
Sounds good to me. But how long has that rule been around? I remember teachers from about second grade through college who... <makes notes to add to memoir>
Making its debut on the list, as the new number one rule of teaching - never force or encourage the students in your class to humiliate a student.
If a teacher can't see that rule as a logical consequence of the previous rule you stated, then that teacher shouldn't be teaching.
A properly trained and mentally balanced teacher will not deal with frustration by being so blatantly mean to a child.

Most schools and school districts have specific "rules" for dealing with behavioral problems and it seems they were at least following one of them--having the child tested for Asperger's. But, knowing that, where was the teacher's head during this event? Where was the Principal in all this (the child had to sit in the Nurse's office for the rest of the day???)?
I recall many days (ISTR this was mostly second grade) I had to sit in the principal's office for the rest of the day. At least the teacher decided on her own to send me there. <makes more notes for memoir>
Oh gawd. They should sue, alright--sue to have the teacher's ass fired and banned from teaching. Beyond that, what? Sue the teacher for everything she'd got? Sure. Why not. But what's that? Thirty grand?

There's no "a lot" to be had, here. Yet, there will be plenty out there demanding it. As much as the teacher's actions disgust me, the response of suing for as much money as possible disgusts me even more.
I'd want to see how the principal and the school district handles this. No doubt that's who "legal action" would be taken against, and that's where the money is. The faster and more firm the action they take against the teacher, the less desire I'd have to sue the school board (that's where change would happen, even if it's to implement some obviouslty stupid rule that supposedly weeds out problem teachers). But I understand the standard legal practice would be to name the teacher as a defendant in the suit as well, though IANAL.
Let's vote to remove the teacher from her duties.
There's the slight difference that the teacher is an adult...
Why is it humiliating for the class to express their opinion about a person's actions?

I can see if they voted him out because he looked different or due to something beyond his control. I can see if they ridiculed him or belittled him.
The other students said he was "disgusting" and "annoying," Barton said.
They merely said you are acting outside the rules and so you are not a part of the tribe until you decide to act within the agreed upon rules for participation in class.
Not that other kids would vote him saying it was because he acted against the rules when they just didn't like the way he looks. Not that I was ever lied to about the reasons I was being punished <makes even more notes for memoir>.

[cethklein]

I strongly disagree with the idea that this event must have--or will likely have--long-term or permanent repercussions for this child. That's just wild speculation. BF is right in that regard, imo--kids are resilient. Think about how many times groups of kids ostracize others--at all ages--refuse to allow some to play with them, etc. This is nothing new.

BUT...the teacher should not be the one propagating such behavior, imo. She should be fired.

Outrageous. You can't sue the school system--for cash--because you don't like its disciplinary actions in this case. And they don't "usually immediately fire" teachers for such things. Not at all. When they do, teachers sue--backed by the Union--and "usually" win.

That's what I meant. I'm not talking about monetary compensaiotn, they should sue for the teacher to be fired (as well as the administration who tolerated this.) Suing school systems for money is pointless as our tax dollars fill those coffers. Suing a school system for money is like taking everyone's tax dollars and it only hurts the kids.

As for it having long-term ramifications for the student, I'm no psychologist and even if I were I don't think there's any way of knowing one way or the other. But we can all agree this whole thing was wrong.

[maestrowork]

The teacher should be reprimanded accordingly. No one should humiliate a child like that. This isn't Kid Nation. They didn't sign up to be voted off the class. As a child who was humiliated by a teacher in front of the whole class, I know how devastating and damaging it can be to a child's confidence. The teacher ought to be ashamed of herself.

It's a kindergarten, for gosh sake, not college or even junior high. If you have a problem with the child's behavior, speak with the principal and the parents, try what you can "behind the scene." This whole Kid Nation episode is just wrong, especially since the kid has autism.

[robeiae]

Seems like everyone's forming opinions (and possibly battle lines :)) based on 1 online news item with limited and rather one-sided information. Me, I'd need to hear a lot more about this alleged incident from trusted sources before I got up a head of steam.

-Derek
Derek should be fired for not jumping on someone's case, facts or no facts. That's just not right.

[DWSTXS]

That school district needs to vote that dumbass teacher right out of her job.

The teacher should also lose their teaching certifications.

[kristie911]

Derek should be fired for not jumping on someone's case, facts or no facts. That's just not right.

Let's vote him out.


:tongue

[icerose]

Seems like everyone's forming opinions (and possibly battle lines :)) based on 1 online news item with limited and rather one-sided information. Me, I'd need to hear a lot more about this alleged incident from trusted sources before I got up a head of steam.

-Derek

From my point of view, what the teacher did was wrong. It doesn't matter if he has autism or is just the most un-disciplined little hellion to ever walk the face of the earth. If she didn't want him in the class, she should have acted like a professional and used the resources available to her, to get him in another class. Publicly humiliating a child is uncalled for, especially since she knew he was being tested and has issues.

In the article it did state that the school had confirmed the incident had happened. So it's not totally one-sided. That is what I'm basing my opinion on.

[DWSTXS]

yeah, hellion or not, you don't humiliate a child in front of other children. This 'punishment' is inexcusable. This, so-called teacher needs to be fired. Anything less is just BS.

[icerose]

yeah, hellion or not, you don't humiliate a child in front of other children. This 'punishment' is inexcusable. This, so-called teacher needs to be fired. Anything less is just BS.

To add to this, I wouldn't advocate this for a bully in middle school, I wouldn't advocate this to the worst of the worst in highschool, I wouldn't advocate this for college age students, I wouldn't advocate this use in the work place.

Think how damaging this method of discipline would be anywhere. It's just wrong and you never know how deeply you can hurt someone at any age, with this kind of action.

[Cranky]

Seems like everyone's forming opinions (and possibly battle lines :)) based on 1 online news item with limited and rather one-sided information. Me, I'd need to hear a lot more about this alleged incident from trusted sources before I got up a head of steam.

-Derek

I've been looking around. Here is another source. Other places I found the story were blogs, so I won't count them as sources.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/accent/content/tcoast/epaper/2008/05/23/0523slclassvote.html

This headslapping bit from the article:

The teacher said the boy had been sent to the office earlier that day, and when the office sent him back to class, Portillo asked her students whether they were ready for him to return, Steele said. Portillo said she asked the class to vote because they are learning about taking tallies, police say.

[Birol]

I think everyone may have missed Derek's point which to me was, as you're drawing up battle lines and opposing sides, lets' remember the rule of respect that governs all interactions on AW, regardless of the topic. There's no need to humiliate one another in this thread for having different opinions or points of view.

[cethklein]

I think everyone may have missed Derek's point which to me was, as you're drawing up battle lines and opposing sides, lets' remember the rule of respect that governs all interactions on AW, regardless of the topic. There's no need to humiliate one another in this thread for having different opinions or points of view.

That makes FAR too much sense Birol. And sensible things have NO place on this board!:tongue

[robeiae]

Birol should be fired!

[robeiae]

Btw, I think this avatar is affecting my brain...

[cethklein]

No if it was effecting your brain, you'd have said "Birol should be chased through a forest by men on four-wheelers with assault rifles."

Poor Ted, the guy never gets a decent break.

[Birol]

Birol should be fired!

:roll:

Oh, guys, you're so funny. If you only knew the truth. I don't think I can be fired. I can't even quit. We're stuck with one another. Forever and ever and ever.

[icerose]

I wasn't meaning to draw battle lines or hurt anyone and for that I am sorry if I did. This article just really got to me that one human being would do this to another human being and pull in others on it. Add to it the fact that the one hurting the other is a teacher a "safe adult" against another child and pulling in children on something that may have started out harmless, but ended rather differently according to the report.

[EriRae]

In response to what both Birol and Derek said:

I have been on the receiving end of this type of outcry from parents. I made two really stupid decisions during my first year of teaching that haunt me to this day and are two really good reasons why I no longer teach. I obeyed a stupid "No coaches on the track" rule when one of my track participants fell and skinned her knees on the cinderblock track and needed my help. I also made a tenth grader sit in a corner, which the other kids thought was pretty funny, but the kid thought was humiliating, as did his mother.

I have learned, from parents and school administration, that no matter how good a teacher you are, you will never live things like this down. Rumors spread, and the whole town comes after you with tar and feathers. I bet the teacher doesn't stay at this school, and may not continue teaching by choice.

Teachers make mistakes. Parents crucify them. Schoolboards have to react. When something involves a perceived threat to a child, the whole community is up in arms. Does this mean the teacher is a bad person? Probably not. Inexperienced, yes. Influenced by pop culture? Yes. Should she continue to teach? She might be able to get by with this in junior high, but five-year-olds--my guess is no.

[brokenfingers]

I think everyone may have missed Derek's point which to me was, as you're drawing up battle lines and opposing sides, lets' remember the rule of respect that governs all interactions on AW, regardless of the topic. There's no need to humiliate one another in this thread for having different opinions or points of view.I’m curious: who’s humiliating who?

I have an opinion and I stated it. That’s the end of the story on my part. I feel no need to insist that my view is correct and that my perspective, and the way that I see the world from behind my desk, is the way the world should act, dammit!

Others might. And if so; then, oh well, fine for them. As long as they don’t try foisting their beliefs and perspectives upon me, all will be well.

If someone were to bring up personal anecdotes dealing with the situation or provide evidence of extensive studies, blah, blah, blah then I’d, of course, be willing to read and ponder upon it accordingly.

But otherwise, it’s just people sitting at a desk ranting about their own feelings on a subject. Which is fine. We’re all entitled to our own beliefs and ideas – as long as we’re not obnoxious about it or try to insist that our way and our beliefs are the only viable ones and what we think should be done is the ONLY thing that should be done because, dammit, that's how we feel.

I still believe that it wasn’t that big a deal. Life is filled with such situations. And I’ll say again, I don’t subscribe to the belief that kids are namby-pamby, fragile things who can’t handle something like this. At least, I’m not raising mine as such.

The kid was a problem child. If it’s a medical condition, then his parents should have acted accordingly and sought special treatment for him and not let others have to suffer because of it. I don’t feel it’s acceptable to make a whole classroom of children, who want to learn, have to suffer because of one kid.

Or maybe they could’ve changed his diet. Or introduced some discipline. Or one of a thousand other things instead of blaming a teacher who’s trying to run a classroom of however many kids and can’t give special treatment to one kid who’s being a monster.

If repeated trips to the principal’s office didn’t work (and what the hell did the parents do about that anyway?) what would? Or should the teacher just let the kid ruin the whole learning experience for all the others because he’s “special”?

I don’t believe in “special” (excepting valid medical conditions, of course.) Life doesn’t offer any special exclusivity to anyone, unless they actually earn it or create it for themselves – and those are the rare exceptions.

Also, for the record, I agree that one shouldn’t humiliate a child in public. I think that’s pretty much a given. I just don’t feel this teacher’s actions fall under that classification.

[Birol]

I’m curious: who’s humiliating who?

I didn't say anyone was. However, this forum, on this board, has a way of drawing lines and seeing attacks where none were, thus escalating things way beyond where they should be. Derek gave a gentle reminder to peeps to maintain perspective. I, in my own fashion, was seconded his statements.

As moderators, we do try to head off problems before they happen. We really do.

[icerose]

I didn't say anyone was. However, this forum, on this board, has a way of drawing lines and seeing attacks where none were, thus escalating things way beyond where they should be. Derek gave a gentle reminder to peeps to maintain perspective. I, in my own fashion, was seconded his statements.

As moderators, we do try to head off problems before they happen. We really do.

There you go trying to do your job again. ;)

[robeiae]

I didn't say anyone was. However, this forum, on this board, has a way of drawing lines and seeing attacks where none were, thus escalating things way beyond where they should be. Derek gave a gentle reminder to peeps to maintain perspective. I, in my own fashion, was seconded his statements.

As moderators, we do try to head off problems before they happen. We really do.
If you've got a problem with me, Birol, just say so.













:tongue

[rhymegirl]

I hope this is relevant to the discussion and might offer another option or solution which could have been used in this kind of situation.

When my youngest son was in kindergarten, I had wanted him to be in the same school with my other kids. The school department had wanted him to go to a different school and be in a smaller class of maybe 10 kids so that he could get one to one help, more attention to his needs. The term they used was "developmentally delayed."

Okay, so he started out in a classroom of about 30 kids. There was one teacher and a teacher's assistant. I got a call one day from the principal. Seems my son was acting up in class and he called the teacher a bitch. My sweet little five-year-old said that. I was shocked. So I went in to the principal's office and had a pow-wow with the principal, the teacher and a social worker, I think. And my son on my lap. They stressed again that he should be in a different class, a smaller class. I listened to everything they said and went home and told my husband the whole story.

He felt that the teacher was copping out, didn't want to have to be bothered with my son acting up and giving him some extra attention. But 30 kids is a lot to have to pay attention to. So we agreed to send him on the bus to a different school, to a smaller class with 10 kids. I had mixed feelings about the whole thing, but I wanted what was best for my son.

Now he's an honor roll student who's still a little socially shy, but a good kid.

[maestrowork]

There are always multiple sides of a story. The student's side, the teacher's side, the school admin's side, and the parent's side. The problem I find is if any one of those sides says, "It's not my problem." The fact is, it's everyone's problem because education should be a collaborative effort. I'm tired of parents who say "my kids have no problem! You can't ostracize him." I'm also tired of teachers who don't want to go out of their way to help because they don't have the time -- and I blame that on their work load, which I blame it on the admins. A teacher sometimes have to deal with over 100 kids every day. Anyone who has a couple of kids know how it is about trying to handle a bunch of kids -- now can you imagine 100 who are not your own kids? You can't discipline them; you can't ground them; you can't tell them "I'm not taking you to Disneyland this year." Still, I think a child's education starts with the parents, and a parent should do what is right for the kid without infringing on other kids' rights. It's a tough thing, and my hat's off for all the parents who take responsibilities. And boohoo to those who don't.

[maestrowork]

Also, for the record, I agree that one shouldn’t humiliate a child in public. I think that’s pretty much a given. I just don’t feel this teacher’s actions fall under that classification.

While I agree with much of your posts about life... we're talking about 4 to 5-year-old kids here. Being ostracized in front of 30 other kids WILL do damage to one's confidence. It will do damage to an adult, actually. I've been there. I don't think we can tell a 5yo to "tough it out."

[Dawno]

I'd like to thank the other moderators who popped in here to re-emphasize the importance of us keeping perspective not only with the original post, but with each other's opinions. I've been attending a convention all weekend and haven't been able to spend much time here.

I would also like to thank everyone else for keeping the discussion lively but very civil.

[Cranky]

My biggest gripe with the whole issue is with the way the teacher handled the problem. She sent him to the principal's office (as is required until the IEP/evaluation process is complete, etc), and when that didn't work...this was her answer?

I live in Nebraska, okay, not some giant metropolis. I've been through Port St. Lucie a few times when I lived in Miami. I am guessing that they have more funds for special education than we do here. Yet, we have an autism cadre of professionals that consult with teachers (general education and special education) to help them implement IEP's and generally help children and teachers have an effective relationship. Was there no one this teacher could talk to about strategies to deal with the child's behavior? Was there no one who said, "Okay, he's being evaluated for Asperger's, so no IEP yet. But maybe we should do an FBA (functional behavioral anaylsis) to help identify what is triggering this behavior and the best ways to address it?"

You're damn right that is time consuming. It takes cooperation from all parties, including the parent. But when done, and done correctly, this could have alleviated the behavior problems without humiliating a five year old in front of his classmates.

I'd like to know what this teacher did to address the issue prior to this happening. Did anyone call the parent, tell her what was going on? If my (severely) autistic son has a bad day at school, his teacher calls. We talk, and we try to figure out what might have happened to trigger his behavior. We have consulted with the autism cadre to help him.

I don't understand what has happened here, but clearly, there has been a severe failure to communicate.

[Cranky]

Oh gawd. They should sue, alright--sue to have the teacher's ass fired and banned from teaching. Beyond that, what? Sue the teacher for everything she'd got? Sure. Why not. But what's that? Thirty grand?

There's no "a lot" to be had, here. Yet, there will be plenty out there demanding it. As much as the teacher's actions disgust me, the response of suing for as much money as possible disgusts me even more.

I agree. And what's more, it wouldn't do a darned thing to FIX THE PROBLEM.

All it would do is empty the teacher (and deplete the school district's funds). What needs to happen is more comprehensive training for the district's teachers on how to deal with behavioral issues in the classroom, especially when the behavior is an outgrowth of the child's disability.

[Cranky]

And for anyone who is interested.

Make A Card Campaign for Alex (http://www.mommylife.net/archives/2008/05/alex_is_special.html)

[Susan Lanigan]

I also made a tenth grader sit in a corner, which the other kids thought was pretty funny, but the kid thought was humiliating, as did his mother.

Erin I'm sorry you were penalised. The mothers you refer to sound precious to the point of refined sugar. Yes you made mistakes but parents make more mistakes, every damn day, and any fool can be a parent. Though it of course doesn't follow that all or even most parents will be fools, the proportion will be higher than if you had to sit an exam to do it.

[aruna]

A bit off topic, but this reminds me of something that happened to me when I was ten years old, at an English boarding school. One of the girls lost a bar of chocolate, and declared that someone had stolen it. The school mad e sabig fuss about it. We had to sit in little groups and discuss the matter for hours, and then all the girls (there were 82 of us) had a personal interview with the headmistress. We were encouraged to say who we thought had stolen it.
Apparently, most of the girls thought I had stolen it, for some reason. Anyway, I got the vote. I don't think I behaved like a thief. I was an extremely shy child who never opened her mouth and always kept a low profile. I remember how terrible I felt.
They never got around to actually punishing me because the chocolate bar turned up somewhere else.
However, there were no long term consequences on my psyche. I don't think. Or maybe that's the reason I am such a jerk now...

[AnneMarble]

Have you heard about this story (http://palmbeachpost.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?action=cpt&title=Port+St.+Lucie+kindergartners+vote+to+send+u nruly+classmate+to+office&expire=&urlID=28784258&fb=Y&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.palmbeachpost.com%2Ftreasurec oast%2Fcontent%2Ftcoast%2Fepaper%2F2008%2F05%2F23% 2F0523slclassvote.html%3Floc%3Dinterstitialskip&partnerID=494)? Here's some national coverage (http://www.wflxfox29.com/Global/story.asp?S=8388562&nav=menu98_3).

In Port St. Lucie, Florida, a kid with "disciplinary issues" was acting up. The teacher brought him in front of the class, then asked the other kids to tell the boy what they didn't like about him. Then they got to vote whether or not to kick him out of the class and send him to the principal's office.

WTF?! This teacher doesn't sound like a teacher, she sounds like some of the kids I went to school with. :e2tongue: This boy has Asperger's syndrome, so he wasn't "acting out" because of disciplinary problems, but because of a behavioral condition. He can disrupt the class by humming for 20 minutes or eating paper (geez, lots of kids ate paper when I was in school, and it wasn't considered disruptive). You don't "treat" those problems by humiliating the kid. What kind of training are kindergarten teachers getting?

[Dawno]

Yes, Anne - it's here, so you might have missed it - I've merged the threads

[James81]

I think it's terrible that the teacher allowed her STUDENTS to vote a kid out of class.

BUT

I have to ask what an autistic child is doing in a mainstream classroom to begin with? Autistic children need special attention and care that they can't get in a mainstream setting.

[Cranky]

I think it's terrible that the teacher allowed her STUDENTS to vote a kid out of class.

BUT

I have to ask what an autistic child is doing in a mainstream classroom to begin with? Autistic children need special attention and care that they can't get in a mainstream setting.

Do you want a serious answer? Because I can bend your ear on it.

[James81]

Do you want a serious answer? Because I can bend your ear on it.

Ha ha, I don't know what "bend your ear on it" means, but sure, if you wanna give a serious answer I'll read it. :D

[Cranky]

Means I have a lot to say. :)

Why are autistic children mainstreamed? Firstly, because most are intelligent enough to keep up with the classwork their peers are doing.

If you want some detailed explanations about autism, click the "Learn the signs" link in my siggy.

But the upshot is that autistic kids learn social skills best by modelling appropriate behavior. The best way to learn appropriate behavior, obviously, is to be around their peers, in a regular classroom. Also, think of this. Autistic children grow up. What happens if they spend their entire school careers in self-contained classrooms (when they aren't always the appropriate placement), and then want to use their brains to go to college and get a job, be self-sufficient? It doesn't matter if you've got a college degree, or you're intelligent, if you don't have decent social skills.

Just like everyone else, autistic folks need to learn it when they are young. It usually takes longer, and requires a lot of patience and understanding from those around them. It also requries exposure to different environments, because autistic people have trouble generalizing skills across environments. In other words, just because they've learned how to behave at home (the expected rules, environment, etc), doesn't mean that they understand how to apply those skills in a different environment with different rules.

I could go on, if you need clarification, but that's the short answer. I should also add that this isn't the appropriate setting for every autistic child. My own son is being sent to an "inclusive" preschool next fall. I don't think it's an appropriate placement, but due to IDEA regulations, mainstream or inclusive placements are always considered the Least Restrictive Environment, and therefore the default position. He has to "fail" (that is, stop progressing on his IEP goals, or regressing) before I can get him into a self-contained classroom, which is where I believe he should be. He doesn't have the coping skills yet to deal with a more traditional setup.

But...we have to try the inclusive setting first. And mainstreaming is always the first choice. We have to let them try. My son may surprise me, and do really well. :) I can't coddle him and expect him to learn at the same time. I have to push him (and myself) beyond our comfort zone.

[James81]

Means I have a lot to say. :)

Why are autistic children mainstreamed? Firstly, because most are intelligent enough to keep up with the classwork their peers are doing.

If you want some detailed explanations about autism, click the "Learn the signs" link in my siggy.

But the upshot is that autistic kids learn social skills best by modelling appropriate behavior. The best way to learn appropriate behavior, obviously, is to be around their peers, in a regular classroom. Also, think of this. Autistic children grow up. What happens if they spend their entire school careers in self-contained classrooms (when they aren't always the appropriate placement), and then want to use their brains to go to college and get a job, be self-sufficient? It doesn't matter if you've got a college degree, or you're intelligent, if you don't have decent social skills.

Just like everyone else, autistic folks need to learn it when they are young. It usually takes longer, and requires a lot of patience and understanding from those around them. It also requries exposure to different environments, because autistic people have trouble generalizing skills across environments. In other words, just because they've learned how to behave at home (the expected rules, environment, etc), doesn't mean that they understand how to apply those skills in a different environment with different rules.

I could go on, if you need clarification, but that's the short answer. I should also add that this isn't the appropriate setting for every autistic child. My own son is being sent to an "inclusive" preschool next fall. I don't think it's an appropriate placement, but due to IDEA regulations, mainstream or inclusive placements are always considered the Least Restrictive Environment, and therefore the default position. He has to "fail" (that is, stop progressing on his IEP goals, or regressing) before I can get him into a self-contained classroom, which is where I believe he should be. He doesn't have the coping skills yet to deal with a more traditional setup.

But...we have to try the inclusive setting first. And mainstreaming is always the first choice. We have to let them try. My son may surprise me, and do really well. :)

My knowledge about autism is limited to this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Autism-Spectrum-Disorders-Understanding-Developmental/dp/0399530479

(pretty good book if you haven't read it)

I suspected my son of having mild Apserger's and started reading things here and there. So I know a bit about autism and the signs.

A mainstream setting would be good for someone like my son, who falls on the lower end of the spectrum, but for someone with full blown autism? I'm not so sure about that. Even though they are just as smart (if not smarter) than mainstream children. Heck, from what I hear Autistic people can be really great writers.

[Use Her Name]

I think it's terrible that the teacher allowed her STUDENTS to vote a kid out of class.

BUT

I have to ask what an autistic child is doing in a mainstream classroom to begin with? Autistic children need special attention and care that they can't get in a mainstream setting.

I agree with this. Although I don't believe that warehousing kids with problems is the answer, I think that the recent trend of letting kids with problems that could cause lengthy disruptions of class time into mainstream classes is really ridiculous. Things like this will just hold the other kids back, and not allow the teacher to give the time required to teach the other kids. Other kids who may be having problems will suffer because of one disruptive kid, no matter what the cause was. I realize I am being unsympathetic, but what would you have, a soundproof booth in the back for "bad kids?" This child also needs schooling, and he is not getting it because he really should be in another classroom.

[reigningcatsndogs]

I think it's terrible that the teacher allowed her STUDENTS to vote a kid out of class.

BUT

I have to ask what an autistic child is doing in a mainstream classroom to begin with? Autistic children need special attention and care that they can't get in a mainstream setting.

What Cranky said. Also, a lot of school districts do not have the space/budgets/facilities to accomodate each special needs or IEP student, and many private schools will not enroll them because they do not have the staff or training to deal with them. That leaves you the option of putting your child into an exclusive system that is set up for ONLY special needs, and for some that can be very stiffling. Autistic students and aspies can definitely contribute to society if they get the right start, but not all their needs are the same, not all their learning processes fit into a pigeon hole. In the case of my son, we had no choice but the public school system, and we were at the mercy of the teacher and adminitrator. If the teacher was open to having a special eds student in her class, it was a great year. Unfortunately that only happened once for us, and the strides Sparky made that year were incredible and more than enough proof that he could manage okay.

My son had several incidents involving teachers that were very similar to this news item. My son was NOT a behavior problem and he was NOT violent. But the comments made by the teacher immediately influenced the children in the class (because at that age the teacher knows everything) and when the children went home and told their parents, the parents also were incredibly impacted by what was said. At one point, a group of parents started a movement to have my son expelled because they were afraid he might hold back some of the high achievers in the classroom, and it was because of comments made by a teacher to some of the students because she was annoyed at having him in her classroom. Ten years later, he remembers every word that was said to him. Yes, this sort of garbage definitely has a huge impact on the child, on his parents, on his siblings and on other children in the class. It is nothing more than sanctioned bullying.

[Cranky]

I've read a lot of books, and articles, and studies. I've been boning up on special education law (IDEA, IEP's, FBA's, LRE's, the whole alphabet soup. Three of my children have IEP's or IFSP's) My son has moderate/severe classic autism. He's nonverbal, and my light. :D

I did say that it's not always appropriate to place a child in a mainstream setting. Just because a child is having behavioral issues isn't enough (on it's own) to justify yanking them from a mainstream placement.

A Functional Behavioral Analysis needs to be done. To figure out what is triggering the behavior. Often, it's something sensory...something in the environment is uncomfortable for them, and so occupational therapy to teach the child to cope with it effectively is recommended. Sometimes, it's difficulty in controlling frustration. Sometimes, it's the noise of the other children. Sometimes, it's the flickering florescent lights...the humming can be horribly distracting and painful.

The point is, the behavior often stems from the autism. And there are ways to teach the child to cope with it. There are steps that can be taken to head off meltdowns in the classroom as well, with a motivated teacher. These kids have great potential. If people would get over the idea that they're "being bad" on purpose, it would help a great deal. It lowers frustration for everyone, and smooths the way for a pleasant environment in the classroom. Of course, autistic kids have to try to learn social skills. But we have to be patient with them while we try to help them.

Just because, for example, my son won't look you in the eye, or respond when you speak to him, doesn't mean he doesn't know what's going on around him. He can sense disapproval and dislike just as much as the next person. Only he's confused, because he doesn't know what he's done wrong. So he gets the idea that HE'S wrong. Broken, defective. Alex said, "I'm not special, I'm not special."

Believe me, these kids know (without the spectacular stupidity and callousness of this teacher) that they don't fit in easily. They very much take it to heart.

[Cranky]

I agree with this. Although I don't believe that warehousing kids with problems is the answer, I think that the recent trend of letting kids with problems that could cause lengthy disruptions of class time into mainstream classes is really ridiculous. Things like this will just hold the other kids back, and not allow the teacher to give the time required to teach the other kids. Other kids who may be having problems will suffer because of one disruptive kid, no matter what the cause was. I realize I am being unsympathetic, but what would you have, a soundproof booth in the back for "bad kids?" This child also needs schooling, and he is not getting it because he really should be in another classroom.

Keep reading, please. :)

[reigningcatsndogs]

I agree with this. Although I don't believe that warehousing kids with problems is the answer, I think that the recent trend of letting kids with problems that could cause lengthy disruptions of class time into mainstream classes is really ridiculous. Things like this will just hold the other kids back, and not allow the teacher to give the time required to teach the other kids. Other kids who may be having problems will suffer because of one disruptive kid, no matter what the cause was. I realize I am being unsympathetic, but what would you have, a soundproof booth in the back for "bad kids?" This child also needs schooling, and he is not getting it because he really should be in another classroom.

So what would you suggest is the answer? Where should these children go to get education? Where should they go to learn the social skills they need? Who is to pay for wherever they go? Most important, who would decide which students are 'bad kids'? What criteria is that decision based on?

Every family, every school room, every community, every office is made up of individuals. You have the smartass who has to get the pot shot in. You have the wall flowers, you have the people who struggle silently with understanding the task, you have the bully, the class clown, the drama queen, the crier, you have the loudmouth knowitall who really knows nothing... its life, and people need to learn to accept that others are different and work around it. Yes, school is there to teach reading and writing and arithmetic, but it is also the first exposure to real life.

[Cranky]

So what would you suggest is the answer? Where should these children go to get education? Where should they go to learn the social skills they need? Who is to pay for wherever they go? Most important, who would decide which students are 'bad kids'? What criteria is that decision based on?

Every family, every school room, every community, every office is made up of individuals. You have the smartass who has to get the pot shot in. You have the wall flowers, you have the people who struggle silently with understanding the task, you have the bully, the class clown, the drama queen, the crier, you have the loudmouth knowitall who really knows nothing... its life, and people need to learn to accept that others are different and work around it. Yes, school is there to teach reading and writing and arithmetic, but it is also the first exposure to real life.

Yes. Exactly. :)

Just because these kids aren't in wheelchairs doesn't mean they don't have a problem. They might "look normal", but (and some people would fry me for saying this), but it's a disability for a reason.

If you think it's a great idea to have accomodations for a kid in a wheelchair to play sports with the other kids (and it is! especially if this is something the kid wants to do), then accomodations should be made for autistic people as well. Their disability is just as real.

[robeiae]

I agree with this. Although I don't believe that warehousing kids with problems is the answer, I think that the recent trend of letting kids with problems that could cause lengthy disruptions of class time into mainstream classes is really ridiculous.
It's really not a recent trend. In fact, it's not a trend, at all. Special Ed classes in the past were there, it is true. But schools were smaller and the number of children placed in such classes were fewer in number. And these children were ones that displayed very serious problems in a regular classroom setting. Still, they were--for the most part--in such settings and then moved out.

Now, we do a much better job spotting/diagnosing children with potential issues, because of Autism, ADHD, or whatever. As a consequence, many schools place such children in special classes immediately, even when the children have not exhibited serious disruptive behavior.

And of course, there are more children now, often with larger classes. The reality is that many children are not allowed to find their place in a normal classroom environment, for a number of reasons. And I think that is a shame.

[Cranky]

I should ask you guys to read the attached comments to the article. You might then begin to understand our passion on the subject.

When people say that people like your child should be "tagged and rounded up, so the 'tards don't get mixed in with 'normal kids" and "'tards should be shot!", it makes you very defensive. Please keep this in mind...we deal with stuff like this ALL the time.

ETA: I know nobody here has said such things (at least not in the thread!), but I just want to make you aware. Also, by writing this down and posting it, it reminds me that I am ultra-sensitive, and to take a deep breath before responding. :)

[Sheryl Nantus]

I think in this case a lot of blame has to fall on the teacher - she *must* have known that the child was being assessed and that this was more than just a behavior problem.

and even if it HAD been just a case of a child acting up, what sort of teaching education tells you to "vote" the child out of the class? Where's he supposed to go; stand in the hallway and think about learning?

I'd send her back to school for sure...

[TerzaRima]

more comprehensive training for the district's teachers on how to deal with behavioral issues in the classroom

More training, and much higher salaries to match the increased demands on them. I am always gobsmacked at the range of needs and behaviors when I visit a mainstream classroom--maybe my memories are obscured by the mists of time or something, but my 1970s grade school seemed so...different. Everybody sit down, shut up, open to the same page.

[Cranky]

More training, and much higher salaries to match the increased demands on them. I am always gobsmacked at the range of needs and behaviors when I visit a mainstream classroom--maybe my memories are obscured by the mists of time or something, but my 1970s grade school seemed so...different. Everybody sit down, shut up, open to the same page.

I agree. Teachers aren't paid enough. :) And good teachers are worth their weight in gold. My son's pre-k teacher is wonderful. So are the teachers for my older kids, too. I'm very happy with our school district!

And it was different when I was in school, too. And I have a hunch that such rigid, structured lessons were a serious boon to kids that weren't "obviously" autistic, too. The rules were clear, consistent, etc.

[robeiae]

Weeeeeelll...some teachers aren't paid enough, some are paid too much.

[Cranky]

Weeeeeelll...some teachers aren't paid enough, some are paid too much.

Well, yes. The teacher in question is a perfect example of that... :)

[dolores haze]

There are also the para-professionals to consider. An autistic child who has been mainstreamed may very well have a one-on-one aide. These folks can range from well trained, experienced professionals to untrained, with no experience whatsoever.

There is also a range of inclusionary practises. It doesn't have to be all (completely mainstreamed) or nothing (completely segregated.)

[robeiae]

And it was different when I was in school, too. And I have a hunch that such rigid, structured lessons were a serious boon to kids that weren't "obviously" autistic, too. The rules were clear, consistent, etc.
Look what you just did, Cranky. You agreed that teachers need more training for these increased demands, than allowed that a more basic methodology in the past--consistently applied--was effective.

I point this out because while I am sympathetic to the needs of some children, I think not allowing them to find their place can be exceedingly detrimental to many of them. A consistent, rigid, structured environment serves the majority quite well. And many children that have behavioral/learning issues can exist quite happily in such an environment. We have to be very careful with how we designate children, imo. Personally, I think we are far to free with labels, labels that children pick up on. A child with very mild autism that can function in a normal classroom setting--albeit with maybe some after-hours help from mom, dad, or others--doesn't need to be labelled. He/she needs to be allowed the freedom to live. Yet, I see children who proclaim --happily, oddly--that they have x, y, or z condition and that they need special treatment because of it. That's not a good thing, imo.

[Cranky]

Look what you just did, Cranky. You agreed that teachers need more training for these increased demands, than allowed that a more basic methodology in the past--consistently applied--was effective.

I point this out because while I am sympathetic to the needs of some children, I think not allowing them to find their place can be exceedingly detrimental to many of them. A consistent, rigid, structured environment serves the majority quite well. And many children that have behavioral/learning issues can exist quite happily in such an environment. We have to be very careful with how we designate children, imo. Personally, I think we are far to free with labels, labels that children pick up on. A child with very mild autism that can function in a normal classroom setting--albeit with maybe some after-hours help from mom, dad, or others--doesn't need to be labelled. He/she needs to be allowed the freedom to live. Yet, I see children who proclaim --happily, oddly--that they have x, y, or z condition and that they need special treatment because of it. That's not a good thing, imo.

Let me think about this a bit before I respond, okay? :)

[reigningcatsndogs]

Look what you just did, Cranky. You agreed that teachers need more training for these increased demands, than allowed that a more basic methodology in the past--consistently applied--was effective.

I point this out because while I am sympathetic to the needs of some children, I think not allowing them to find their place can be exceedingly detrimental to many of them. A consistent, rigid, structured environment serves the majority quite well. And many children that have behavioral/learning issues can exist quite happily in such an environment. We have to be very careful with how we designate children, imo. Personally, I think we are far to free with labels, labels that children pick up on. A child with very mild autism that can function in a normal classroom setting--albeit with maybe some after-hours help from mom, dad, or others--doesn't need to be labelled. He/she needs to be allowed the freedom to live. Yet, I see children who proclaim --happily, oddly--that they have x, y, or z condition and that they need special treatment because of it. That's not a good thing, imo.

Wow, did we have a go-round with labels when Sparky was starting school. Everyone wanted one for him, because the label defined the child. I just wanted him to be able to learn and make friends and have a normal life. The label thing was heartbreaking. They argue it is needed for funding purposes. I argued that it was just a product of conveyor belt mentality to everything -- quick and easy and the least amount of work possible to fire something out the door at the end of the process.

When I was in school (No, I won't say how many years ago!) there was a boy in our class. It was a small school, Grade 1, 2 and 3 in the same class, with one teacher who was there an hour before school until an hour after school every day. We would come to school every day with a penny, and before classes started, we would draw out a grid on a piece of scrap paper, and we would write times on the top and we would 'buy' a square of time that we thought would be when this one boy in the class would be taken out of the room and given the strap for behavior. I was in Grade 1. I remember it clearly. It happened every day. The thing is, the guy was genius and he was sweet (and I learned later, one hell of a kisser). In grade one he was rebuilding vehicle engines and building his own radios. He couldn't do art. Big deal. He found it boring. He was never disrepectful, never rude, but he chose to draw schematics and wiring plans instead of houses and smily suns and bunny rabbits. He made it to Grade 8, dropped out, worked for a couple of years and has run an incredibly successful automotive business since then.

What happened to him scared the hell out of me when my son started having problems. I could imagine kids betting on when he would be kicked out of the class, not for doing anything wrong, but because he wasn't doing what was expected. Yes, there is a need for decorum and order when dealing with that many students. I know a teacher cannot accommodate the individual needs of every student in her classroom. I don't know what the answer is, and that was why I pulled mine out of the system. I do know that understanding and tolerance and respect are needed. I don't think there is much of that anywhere anymore, including the classroom.

[dgiharris]

I can't believe some of the responses on this thread.

It amazes me how many people FORGET what it is like to be a 5 yr old.
Too often, we adults ascribe or project an adult mindset onto children.

For crying out loud, THESE ARE CHILDREN. They do not have the cognative abilities of children even double their ages.

Anyone who feels this action is o.k. or will not have long term implications for this child is smoking something that will probably get you sent to jail (at least in the US).

THere are right ways to do something, then there are wrong ways to do things. This is definitely wrong. Wrong with a capital W.

Mel...

[Cranky]

I'm going to take this a little bit at a time, here.

Firstly...the label exists for a reason. You can't get a child the services they NEED without one, and kids that are "high functioning" are often ignored. People don't understand why if a kid can do "X" why they can't naturally do "Y". In the case of autism, their skills sets are all over the place. That's why a kid can know everything there is to know about dinosaurs, but can't figure out what I mean when I say, "Oh, I'm burning up!" They think I'm literally on fire. The kid isn't stupid...it's different brain wiring.

Secondly, I partially agree. There is a reason why my husband and I haven't mortgaged our house to pay for two years of therapy. Besides the fact that we don't own a house, lol. It's because I think our son deserves a chance to be a kid, not have a 40 hour per week job. And that's what therapy is...work. Hard work.

I also don't agree with using a "label" as an excuse to not try to learn. Some things, however, just won't happen. My son, for example, despite hours and hours of speech therapy, still has no words. Not even approximations. He may never speak, despite years of therapy. *shrug* So, unless you are an expert (and I mean no disrespect, honestly), who are you (or anyone) to say that the label isn't necessary?

The freedom to be themselves is important, and I agree. In the case of austistic kids, though, that means self-stimulatory behavior people find strange and disruptive, such as flapping, spinning, humming or shrieking. Shredding paper, throwing objects into the air to watch them fall. So...it's a double edged sword, isn't it?

There are no neat answers. There is a saying in the community, "If you've seen one kid with autism, then you've seen one kid with autism". Which means that the condition varies the way it manifests from person to person, and no one thing is a "magic bullet" for treatment.

One other thing on the labelling, even of kids that might seem just a little eccentric in different settings: I label my son publicly because I want people to know that he's not "bad", that I'm not a terrible parent that doesn't know how to control her kid. I also tell them when he isnt upset, so they know that autism isn't some horrible tragedy twenty-four seven.

I tell people so they can understand, and accept. He's a great kid (and I am not the only one that thinks so, Mommy bias or no), and I want people to know that, too.

[maestrowork]

I agree that kids need to be mainstreamed. They need socializing skills, etc. But the problem is a lot of teachers are not trained or equipped to handle "special" children. And then you have a classroom of 40, so how do you cope? Schools used to have special ed teachers -- even if there were no special ed classes, these teachers were there to help. But since school rosters have been downsized (and classes upsized), that's not the case anymore. And teachers are not being trained -- it really does take special skills. An English or Science teacher is not going to know how to handle autistic or developmentally challenged children.

And yes, many teachers are not paid nearly enough. There are well-paid teachers who don't deserve it, of course, but I'm wondering, how can we say we're serious about education when we don't even pay our teachers to afford -- the frontline of education -- a decent living? When we begrudge them for making a living? Sometimes we pay people flipping burgers more than we pay teachers.

[Cranky]

Don't get me started on training, Ray! It's my current favorite bugaboo! LOL

ETA: If I had my way (and the money), every child would have an IEP that takes into account their strengths and weaknesses, and helps them to succeed. I think all kids should get that sort of customized education.

[Cranky]

I can't believe some of the responses on this thread.

It amazes me how many people FORGET what it is like to be a 5 yr old.
Too often, we adults ascribe or project an adult mindset onto children.

For crying out loud, THESE ARE CHILDREN. They do not have the cognative abilities of children even double their ages.

Anyone who feels this action is o.k. or will not have long term implications for this child is smoking something that will probably get you sent to jail (at least in the US).

THere are right ways to do something, then there are wrong ways to do things. This is definitely wrong. Wrong with a capital W.

Mel...

Exactly. Kindergarten, folks! :)

[icerose]

On the labeling. It really depends on the label and how it's used. If the label is applied so the child can then get the help and understanding they need to improve, I'm all for it.

I am not for the negative labels though.

My brother in third grade had a teacher that seriously disliked him. He had to help haul wood and coal before going to class, so often his hands would have coal dust on them. Anyone who has handled coal knows how hard it is to scrub out coal dust, especially as a little kid.

So she would make him scrub his hands in steaming hot water for ten minutes before class every single day, and would constantly make remarks about his cleanliness. He wasn't unbathed, his hair wasn't unbrushed, but he did have some coal dust on him, but not even to the extreme, it's not like it was all over his face and clothes, it was just some that was harder to scrub off his hands.

Next he tested near genius levels. He could figure out how electronics and motors worked, he built a robot from random parts that actually worked. His english skills were low, however, which kept him out of genius level testing. Since he was struggling in English, his teacher labeled him as a stupid lazy child and he never got the English help he needed. It cut out his chances for engineering and so forth. He's a machinist now, he can build or fix anything, but he doesn't have great English skills. It and math are the only areas he lags, and if he wouldn't have gotten slapped with that label, if someone would have just taken the time to really help him, I think he would have had a much higher quality education. But they didn't. They were so concerned about upholding that label.

[Cranky]

Slapped with what label? An official label? Or the one his ignorant teacher slapped on him?

Because there is a difference. :)

[stormie]

No teacher, no doctor, no librarian, no nurse...should ever humiliate a child, no matter what the problem is. There are other ways of dealing with a child with problems without demeaning him or her. Those so-called professionals are sadistic, plain and simple. I hate it when anyone treats another person, child or adult, like that. The teacher should have her certificate revoked, and not even be allowed to ever work with children in any way, even as a volunteer.

Okay, I'm off my soapbox.

[icerose]

Slapped with what label? An official label? Or the one his ignorant teacher slapped on him?

Because there is a difference. :)

His teacher slapped it on him, put it in his offical school record which got tumbled over year after year and no teacher bothered to look past the english scores.

[Cranky]

No teacher, no doctor, no librarian, no nurse...should ever humiliate a child, no matter what the problem is. There are other ways of dealing with a child with problems without demeaning him or her. Those so-called professionals are sadistic, plain and simple. I hate it when anyone treats another person, child or adult, like that. The teacher should have her certificate revoked, and not even be allowed to ever work with children in any way, even as a volunteer.

Okay, I'm off my soapbox.


Exactly.

[Cranky]

His teacher slapped it on him, put it in his offical school record which got tumbled over year after year and no teacher bothered to look past the english scores.

Nice. I wonder why they didn't test him further, since he scored so well in other areas. For dyslexia or something else, maybe. *shrug*

People like people to fit in the boxes we make for them, though, and if you can do "X", then by golly, you ought to be able to do "Y", end of story.

I'm sorry he didn't get a good teacher to take an interest in him, or find ways to help him that maybe didn't fit the traditional modes.

[dolores haze]

I keep thinking about the two kids who DIDN'T vote Alex out of the classroom. I'd love to know the reasons why they thought he should stay.

[Cranky]

I keep thinking about the two kids who DIDN'T vote Alex out of the classroom. I'd love to know the reasons why they thought he should stay.

Me, too. :)

[icerose]

Nice. I wonder why they didn't test him further, since he scored so well in other areas. For dyslexia or something else, maybe. *shrug*

People like people to fit in the boxes we make for them, though, and if you can do "X", then by golly, you ought to be able to do "Y", end of story.

I'm sorry he didn't get a good teacher to take an interest in him, or find ways to help him that maybe didn't fit the traditional modes.

He isn't dyslexic, his brain just doesn't think, English wise, the way say my brain does, well in other ways too. I can't look at something, take it appart to the nuts and bolts and everything, clean it, then put it back together perfectly without any instructions or pictures. He can.

What he needed was deeper instruction. He needed a tutor to work with him to help him get those areas. He didn't get it though. The teacher figured if he couldn't pick this concept up immediately, he must be stupid, which he wasn't, he just needed more help on that particular subject than the other kids. He could run circles around the other kids in every other subject, but that didn't matter to his teachers, the only thing that mattered was his scores and his speed in English.

Of course this is coming from a teacher that broke a ruler across his knucles for having stained hands.

[stormie]

I keep thinking about the two kids who DIDN'T vote Alex out of the classroom. I'd love to know the reasons why they thought he should stay.A lot of kids at that young age will follow what the others do or say (and they sensed their teacher's irritation with that child). Those two might have more insight, more empathy than others their age. Their sense of reasoning might be more developed.

[maestrowork]

A friend of mine from high school was deemed "slow" and put into a class for "slower" students -- there were five classes divided by the tested abilities of the students: two A classes, and three B classes. He was placed in class B3.

Five years later, he won the crown of getting the best grades in the HKCEE open exam -- that's city-wide, by the way. He got 7 A's, got a free scholarship to Boston U and eventually finished his PhD at Princeton.

In comparison, I was placed in class A1. I almost flunked out of high school. At HKCEE, I got 1 A (Bible Studies, of all things), 3 B's, 4 C's and a failing grade (in Chinese History, of all things).

That tells you sometimes Aptitude tests mean jack, especially when the child is still young.

[Cranky]

He isn't dyslexic, his brain just doesn't think, English wise, the way say my brain does, well in other ways too. I can't look at something, take it appart to the nuts and bolts and everything, clean it, then put it back together perfectly without any instructions or pictures. He can.

What he needed was deeper instruction. He needed a tutor to work with him to help him get those areas. He didn't get it though. The teacher figured if he couldn't pick this concept up immediately, he must be stupid, which he wasn't, he just needed more help on that particular subject than the other kids. He could run circles around the other kids in every other subject, but that didn't matter to his teachers, the only thing that mattered was his scores and his speed in English.

Of course this is coming from a teacher that broke a ruler across his knucles for having stained hands.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that he did have something like that! :) I just meant that I didn't get why they wouldn't investigate further, when his scores were high in other areas. Sorry!

Teachers are human, and prone to bias as well. It is really destructive when they act on it, and it's even worse when they aren't called to account for it.

[dolores haze]

Cranky mentioned integrated pre-school earlier in the thread. I worked for an agency that ran an integrated nursery school. The teachers and aides were thoroughly trained and dedicated to ensuring the success of every child. It wasn't only the disabled kids who benefitted from this arrangment. The "normal" (sorry about the word) kids benefitted greatly in the growth of their empathy and understanding, as did their parents. It was a win/win situation for everybody. The fact that EVERYONE (parents, kids, staff) was on board with the mission of the nursery school is what ensured its success.

Despite all the ongoing issues and problems with mainstreaming and integrating disabled kids into the regular classroom I think we're headed in the right direction. Segregating and warehousing children with disabilities is wrong. Anyone remember the Willowbrook scandal? We musn't start going backwards. With the proper training, dedication and co-operation over the long-term I would hope that stories such as the OP will become a thing of the past.

[Cranky]

Shoot. Willowbrook. *shudders*

How's this for current, though? People think this stuff doesn't still go on (I know you know otherwise, Do), but it does.

Judge Rotenberg Educational Center (JRC) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judge_Rotenberg_Educational_Center)

Willowbrook (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willowbrook_State_School)

ETA: I am hoping that our pre-k will turn out like the one you describe, Dolores. It sounds great!

[icerose]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that he did have something like that! :) I just meant that I didn't get why they wouldn't investigate further, when his scores were high in other areas. Sorry!

Teachers are human, and prone to bias as well. It is really destructive when they act on it, and it's even worse when they aren't called to account for it.

It's okay, I didn't take any offense to it. He was tested again in highschool and again, they found the same results. His english and math were on the low side while his mechanical, science, and other were genius levels. He could probably get the tutoring now that would help bring it up, but he's really happy at what he does.

Still, even though the teacher had though it, had she just kept it to himself, had she never called him that, he might have pushed himself to achieve higher in those areas.

[Cranky]

A friend of mine from high school was deemed "slow" and put into a class for "slower" students -- there were five classes divided by the tested abilities of the students: two A classes, and three B classes. He was placed in class B3.

Five years later, he won the crown of getting the best grades in the HKCEE open exam -- that's city-wide, by the way. He got 7 A's, got a free scholarship to Boston U and eventually finished his PhD at Princeton.

In comparison, I was placed in class A1. I almost flunked out of high school. At HKCEE, I got 1 A (Bible Studies, of all things), 3 B's, 4 C's and a failing grade (in Chinese History, of all things).

That tells you sometimes Aptitude tests mean jack, especially when the child is still young.

Aptitude tests, or intelligence testing? Because the latter is suspect if a child is less than 8, IIRC.

Adaptive skills (coping skills, social skills, etc) are just as (if not more) indicative of future success than IQ, as far as I know.

[Cranky]

There are also the para-professionals to consider. An autistic child who has been mainstreamed may very well have a one-on-one aide. These folks can range from well trained, experienced professionals to untrained, with no experience whatsoever.

There is also a range of inclusionary practises. It doesn't have to be all (completely mainstreamed) or nothing (completely segregated.)

I somehow missed this post! Dolores makes an excellent point here. :D This is done on a regular basis in school districts across the country.

[StoryG27]

Having come in late on this topic, I'll just stick to commenting on the original post. My heart broke for this poor little boy. I just want to give him a big hug. I would also love to applaud the two little ones who didn't vote him out of the class. They must have amazing character for their young ages.

[stormie]

Yes, as I said, most little ones will follow their peers, and of course, their teacher. Those two showed empathy and reasoning beyond their years (usually kicks in around second grade).

[Cranky]

I'll post a link (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2388820&postcount=49) here to a post I made earlier in the thread. It's a little campaign a mom is getting together for kids to make a card for Alex, to help him feel a little better. In case anyone is interested. :)

It broke my heart to hear that he said, "I'm not special," over and over. :(

[Pat~]

This thread makes me sad, it just hits so close to home. My 20-yr. old son (miraculously in college--for now at least) who has Tourette's (a bit of a neurological 'cousin' to autism) had many of the same behavioral issues throughout his schooling, and I look back on his entire school experience with a lot of pain, unfortunately. He'd started off at a private school--one of the best in north Texas, and the one where I'd taught for 8 years. With my education degree, and master's in special ed., I knew something was up when I saw the neurological 'soft signs' that appeared even before he went to preschool--he had obsessively repetitive verbal and physical behaviors (tics), he was left-handed and had trouble drawing or learning to form letters, and he had a certain emotional 'disconnect' that was hard to describe. But he also amazed us at times; as a baby, he could unbuckle his high chair seat buckle and escape, as a two-yr. old he obsessed with the front door key until he learned how to escape through there as well, and (you guessed it), he also learned how to get out of his car seat. By the time he learned how to crack our combination safe to get at his gameboy, we were certain he had a future in a life of crime.

At least that was our joke, until the second grade teacher called us in for a conference about his lack of 'remorse' when disciplined (due to his flat affect). She was convinced, and told us, that he was sociopathic. It was November, and I noticed that my son's desk was 'attached' to the teacher's desk. The same as when I'd come in for the October conference (concerning his finger and pencil tapping, throat-clearing, nose-picking, and messy homework). I asked if she ever moved the desks around. She said yes, but that she kept my son's desk attached to hers, so she could "catch everything he does." And she did, despite my protests, and despite my giving her copious amounts of literature about Tourette's kids. (That was the year he'd gotten the diagnosis I expected; Tourette's runs on my mother's side of the family, and my niece also has it.) She made it her personal vendetta to reprimand him for every grunt, tap, and pick; unfortunately Tourette's ticcing is exacerbated by emotional stress, and drawing attention to the ticcing only serves to increase it.

So my resilient son responded by trying to become a sort of class clown so the kids would think he did what he did on purpose, to be 'funny.' That was the year he began to withdraw, and he started seeing a child psychiatrist. After he started banging his head against the wall, crying, and saying he wished he were dead, we added anti-depressants to his tic and other medications. (Many Tourette's kids like ours have ADD and obsessive-compulsive symptoms that require medication as well.) To make matters worse, in a sense, our son's achievement test results (with accompanying IQ scores) were extremely high by 3rd grade--so that teachers who had no special ed training promptly wrote him off as "lazy" when he turned in messy homework or less-than-stellar writing assignments. This despite the fact that we'd also had him tested for educational disabilities, and he was diagnosed with significant learning disabilities in spelling and written expression. They'd point to his 99th %ile math and reading scores and say they knew he could do better.

By the time he was in 5th grade there, we saw the writing on the wall. In September of 6th grade, after receiving multiple "demerits" in our mailbox for his "failure to bring a red pencil to class" we yanked our (still depressed) son out of private school, deciding we had nowhere left to go but up. We put him into the public school in the town we'd just moved to, and things did improve, somewhat. He did not get an IEP, though initially I wanted him to be classified special ed in order to get one. (It's complicated, but basically it was a better path to choose the label "504 Plan" for someone who was both gifted and learning disabled. The 504 would accommodate for his spelling/writing disabilities, without keeping him from some other challenging course options.) The best thing about the public school system was the progressive computer education program. He flourished under the teaching and extra attention he got from those teachers, who gave us the first positive feedback we'd ever had about our son educationally--that he basically was a computer whiz, who seemed to know stuff about computers intuitively. When teachers started paging him over the intercom to solve their computer malfunctions, his teacher eventually put him in charge of maintaining all the middle school computers, giving him a grade for it as an independent study. This was our son's first positive stroke, educationally, and not surprisingly it's his field of study today.

I could say more, but I've probably already said too much. There are no easy answers to mainstreaming special-needs kids into our society (and classrooms). But I do know this: humiliation is never the right approach. These kids do have feelings, and those feelings matter, and any teacher who thinks otherwise has no business working with children, period.

[stormie]

Unfortunately, every school system has a few teachers who shouldn't be teaching. Even in the special ed schools. My younger son went to several different special ed schools, and oh boy, I had to hold my temper.

There was one special ed teacher who took my younger son's toy truck, which he was holding onto inside his desk, and tossed it high up over the cabinets near the ceiling, laughing at him for needing to hold on to this small toy truck. (My younger son needs to have something in his hands. Tactile stimulation.) I pulled him out, since the powers-that-be at that school felt she was right. The Child Study Team did place him elsewhere. (By the way, that teacher is still teaching in special ed.)

[icerose]

Unfortunately, every school system has a few teachers who shouldn't be teaching. Even in the special ed schools. My younger son went to several different special ed schools, and oh boy, I had to hold my temper.

There was one special ed teacher who took my younger son's toy truck, which he was holding onto inside his desk, and tossed it high up over the cabinets near the ceiling, laughing at him for needing to hold on to this small toy truck. (My younger son needs to have something in his hands. Tactile stimulation.) I pulled him out, since the powers-that-be at that school felt she was right. The Child Study Team did place him elsewhere. (By the way, that teacher is still teaching in special ed.)

That is absolutely disgusting. I knew a non-verbal autistic woman who always clutched a handful of spoons. She was extremely intelligent and going for her Masters at the time, but those spoons were necessary for her. She couldn't explain it, she communicated through writing, she knew it made her look funny, but she couldn't help it. She had to have those spoons.

For a teacher to do that, is just awful.

[reigningcatsndogs]

Sparky also anchors. Always has. He had one teacher who went out of her way to make sure the other students understood that he needed his anchor, and explained it by telling the class the story of the magic ballet shoes. They all did art projects because of the story and whenever Sparky got upset about something, the students were always checking to make sure he had his anchor. His classmates became part of the process and he flourished. That was grade 2. In grade 3, his new teacher shut us out, told us she knew what to do to 'keep him in line', and before long many of the kids who were so kind and helpful and understanding were shunning him. It was very confusing. He came home and told me he wanted to kill himself because he was terrible and worthless and would never be a good student.

The anchoring was vital for him. It still is. If it works, and it hurts no one, why mess with it?

[icerose]

Anchoring how I see it. The woman I knew, her spoons to her was like my shirt is to me. You wouldn't catch me anywhere without it. I would feel so insecure without my clothes, I would be practically non-functional. So why bother a person about it? Isn't it a security thing to them?

[stormie]

Yep. Interesting, all these years and I never heard the term "anchors." Is that similar to my younger son's need to usually have something touching the palm of his hand? (Now he carries around soda in a bottle or can. And he doesn't drink it much!)

[AnneMarble]

I should ask you guys to read the attached comments to the article. You might then begin to understand our passion on the subject.
I looked at the first page and a half. Eww. Yeah, there were a lot of people who were outraged by what the teacher did. But there were also some asshats.

I heard part of a radio show covering this story. Most people called in to say that the teacher sucked and clearly wasn't trained to deal with this sort of child. But one asshat called in to say that she should be applauded for having the guts to put the kid in his place, or something like that. He came across as incredibly arrogant, and I'm sure if he'd stayed on the line a little longer, he would have blamed it all on bleeding hearts or on too many "self esteem" classes. ;) Anyway, what part of "The boy was five" did he not understand? And what does he think the other kids will take away from the experience? Does he really think they will learn to "behave"? Or does he think they will learn that it's OK to bully kids who are awkard or different or whatever? (As if they needed any help learning that lesson.)

It reminds me of a young adult novel I recently last year. There was a girl who had been bullied for years -- without the teachers noticing. She was very nerdy and awkward, and kind of cold, probably as a defense mechanism, so she no one liked her. Her current teacher decides to make the bullying issue into a class project and turns it into a trial. Of course, the bullies win the trial because they're the popular kids, and the ending is tragic. This teacher reminds me of the teacher in that book, who acted without permission from officials to make a what she thought was a "point" and opened up a huge can of worms.

[TerzaRima]

While the incident is pretty bad, it's not terribly surprising. People are always shocked! shocked! to hear things like this about teachers, and I don't know why. Electing to work with children does not guarantee character or intelligence, and IMO these jobs actually select for certain kinds of craziness.

[Takvah]

The teacher gives a lesson in civics and this is the thanks she gets? Outrage brought to you by the folks that banned dodge ball.

*snicker*

[stormie]

Electing to work with children does not guarantee character or intelligence, and IMO these jobs actually select for certain kinds of craziness.
Probably why I became a teacher.

But that's not the point. The point being, this child is only five. His classmates are still at that stage of life where they mimic their peers and look up to their teacher. That teacher wasn't crazy; she was mean.

[TerzaRima]

Of course she was gratuitously mean. But I think her behavior is probably more common than all the uproar would suggest.

[Cranky]

The teacher gives a lesson in civics and this is the thanks she gets? Outrage brought to you by the folks that banned dodge ball.

*snicker*

I sure hope that was a joke.

[stormie]

Of course she was gratuitously mean. But I think her behavior is probably more common than all the uproar would suggest.As I said before in post #102, yes, it does happen. There are the few teachers who shouldn't be teaching. Period. But I think here the problem is that the child was only in kindergarten. It's bad no matter what grade, but to do that to a little one....

[Cranky]

Of course she was gratuitously mean. But I think her behavior is probably more common than all the uproar would suggest.

I think there should be an uproar, no matter what. You just don't do that. You don't.

[Cranky]

As I said before in post #102, yes, it does happen. There are the few teachers who shouldn't be teaching. Period. But I think here the problem is that the child was only in kindergarten. It's bad no matter what grade, but to do that to a little one....

Exactly. I'm ditto-ing you a lot on this thread. :)

[Cranky]

Yep. Interesting, all these years and I never heard the term "anchors." Is that similar to my younger son's need to usually have something touching the palm of his hand? (Now he carries around soda in a bottle or can. And he doesn't drink it much!)

My son always did this with spoons, pencils, straws, and always two items. He doesn't any more, unless he's really stressed out or upset.

[stormie]

Exactly. I'm ditto-ing you a lot on this thread.
And I'm staying calm. :D

[Cranky]

I looked at the first page and a half. Eww. Yeah, there were a lot of people who were outraged by what the teacher did. But there were also some asshats.

I heard part of a radio show covering this story. Most people called in to say that the teacher sucked and clearly wasn't trained to deal with this sort of child. But one asshat called in to say that she should be applauded for having the guts to put the kid in his place, or something like that. He came across as incredibly arrogant, and I'm sure if he'd stayed on the line a little longer, he would have blamed it all on bleeding hearts or on too many "self esteem" classes. ;) Anyway, what part of "The boy was five" did he not understand? And what does he think the other kids will take away from the experience? Does he really think they will learn to "behave"? Or does he think they will learn that it's OK to bully kids who are awkard or different or whatever? (As if they needed any help learning that lesson.)

It reminds me of a young adult novel I recently last year. There was a girl who had been bullied for years -- without the teachers noticing. She was very nerdy and awkward, and kind of cold, probably as a defense mechanism, so she no one liked her. Her current teacher decides to make the bullying issue into a class project and turns it into a trial. Of course, the bullies win the trial because they're the popular kids, and the ending is tragic. This teacher reminds me of the teacher in that book, who acted without permission from officials to make a what she thought was a "point" and opened up a huge can of worms.

Yup, yup and yup. :D Though I don't know what book you are talking about...

[reigningcatsndogs]

Of course she was gratuitously mean. But I think her behavior is probably more common than all the uproar would suggest.

Despite the issues I ran into with the school system and my son, I don't know that I would agree with this. I think that there are SOME teachers who do not want to deal with special needs children. There are SOME teachers who became teachers because it meant they got the summer off. There are SOME teachers who think they know more about every child than any parent could ever hope to. I do not believe there is an over-abundance of teachers who are mean. Some are uninformed, some are in teaching positions they would probably prefer not to be in but a job is a job, some are perplexed by conditions that the majority of the general population just can't grasp.

The teacher in this article was mean and uninformed. She was intentionally mean. 'A lesson in civics' my ass. (if the comment was meant to be funny, it missed the mark by a frigging mile). She gave a classroom of very impressionable children a lesson in how to be a bully. There is nothing this child could have done that should have resulted in what happened, especially considering the age group. She deliberately created a gang mentality, and I would think that her actions will have a long-term impact on every child in that class.

[AnneMarble]

Yup, yup and yup. :D Though I don't know what book you are talking about...
Poison Ivy by Amy Goldman Koss. :D (I've read better YA, but the dynamics of the bullying were interesting.)

[PattiTheWicked]

I had breakfast with some friends today, and we were talking about this very case. My friend Cheryl was on her way to school to talk to her daughter's teacher, because apparently another little girl in the class had started an "I hate Sarah Club". The teacher had no idea, because Sarah hadn't mentioned it to him.

Kids can be mean to one another. But for an adult to encourage it at any level at all is reprehensible.

[Bartholomew]

Let's vote to remove the teacher from her duties.

Agreed. If this story is even remotely accurate, this teacher has no business working with large groups of children.

[HeronW]

This idiot teacher has been watching way too much 'Reality' tv. Encoraging the students to do this is extremely stupid of her, not to mention ignorant and unethical.

If the teacher was aware of a developmental problem in the child that disrupted the class--take it up with the principal, with the parents, counselors, with ADULTS--not a bunch of 5 year olds who can be as gentle as rabid dogs.

If the teacher wasn't aware of the child's health issues, she could have taken up the disruptive acts with the school officials or parents.

Other arrangements can be made to deliver education and teach tolerance for differences.

More than 50 years ago my sister was FORCED to write with her right hand--she was a lefty, but 'using your left hand was the devil's hand'. My consolation: that teacher is long dead.