Not accusing me of plagiarism, exactely...BUT

[skelly]

I'll try to keep this short, as I'm really fucking boiling about it, and I'll probably say something that I would only regret later.

I got a PM regarding a poem that I posted for critique. Obviously I won't say who it was from...that part doesn't matter. In this PM, the sender complimented my poem, then proceeded to tell me that he/she was certain that he/she had read certain stanzas and'or lines in some other poem, probably here on the AW poetry forums.

This person did not accuse me of plagiarism...just a friendly sort of "thought you should know" sort of message. I'll take that person at their word and say "thank you."

The lines in question are as follows...with no breaks so that you can easily copy and google them if you wish:

*when we make love i smell campfires in her hair, taste the smoke on her skin.

*she speaks with a lilting tongue of better days and fatter kills, wide blue morning skies, times without war.

*she names the stars after dead ancestors and laughs at the notion of other worlds.

Three of my "showcase" stanzas, I can't help but notice, three stanzas that are probably the closest to my pure poetic "voice," if I even have such a thing.

I am really, really, really upset about this.

I googled them myself, of course. Nothing. But the PM specified that he/she thought that he/she saw the poem here, in this forum. Is there some way to check that? Can we search those stanzas, like you can on Google?

I'm about THIS goddam close to a full blown blood rage over the thing. I've never had any even remotely intimate such a thing about my work before, and even worse than that, this is one of those poems that I'm really fucking happy with, and proud of (it's overall merits or lack thereof aside).

So if anyone knows a way I can search this forum as I described above, or if anyone else feels that they have seen these particular stanzas (or any other, for that matter) in some other poem on this board, please, tell me.

Thank you.

[veinglory]

They sent you a private FYI based on htheir impression. If the impression was mistaken (the forum search function is in the top nav bar) then it seems to me that is the end of it for you, them and everyone else.

[alleycat]

The person may have just gotten confused. They may have read your poem some time earlier, then came back and read it again and thought they remembered one like it by someone else.

[skelly]

So I shouldn't have started this thread, is what you are trying to say? I've seen other people post threads about writing related stuff that pissed them off. I have never been able to gather any useful info from the forum search function, either. That's why I was hoping someone could pop in and explain it to me.

And you are wrong to say "that's the end of it." Not until it is firmly established that these lines and stanzas do not exist anywhere else on this board other than in the poem I posted for crit, and the OP of this thread, is it "the end of it."

I'm not trying to be an ass about the issue...and I'm not trying to drawn more attention to myself or this poem. If I was going to pull that kind of shit I surely would have done it before now. But as it stands, I think the people who critiqued the poem deserve to know that such comments have been made regarding it...even if those comments were made in private. Also, by bringing it to light, perhaps some other person who reads here regularly can find whatever poem the PM-sender may have read that has the same lines...or sounds similar...or whatever...so the issue can be resolved, if only in his/her and my minds.

And honestly, I have absolutely no luck with the forum search thing.

[skelly]

The person may have just gotten confused. They may have read your poem some time earlier, then came back and read it again and thought they remembered one like it by someone else.
That's a great point. As well, in my reply, I wondered if perhaps he/she was vaguely remembering some other poem that I posted here. After awhile I suppose all my crap starts to sound alike :)

Anyway, I'm sorry for flying off like that on this issue. Just hit me all kinds of wrong. If nobody pops in with some sort of "Oh yeah...there WAS a poem I remember that had such and such" then I suppose the issue is closed.

I'm certain that I didn't accidentally lift someone else's line, but if I even came close....

Well.

[Ol' Fashioned Girl]

I picked out some of the key words and searched in the Chapbook area, this area, and the SYW area... nothing popped up.

[alleycat]

Don't worry about it. It's understandable if you thought someone was accusing you of something you didn't do.

The whole thing was probably just a misunderstanding on the part of the person who sent you the PM. If there had been another poem like yours, others would probably have noticed it too.

[skelly]

Thanks. I can't tell you how much. I don't normally get that wound up about stuff. And thanks for doing the search OFG...sets my mind at ease on the thing.

I guess the only fitting punishment for having made this particular mountain out of that particular mole hill will be to make myself learn how to use the ^$#&$%#$$*% search forum feature.

I'll report back here when the torture has ended.

Seriously, thanks for the help you guys.

[Silver King]

I've just completed a thorough search of those three lines using key words, and the results show that they all appear in two places: here in this thread, and in the poem, The Blonde Barbarian of my Dreams, that you posted on May 21st. Those three lines, or even key parts of them, don't exist anywhere else on AW.

Now you can relax and have a beer on me in The Drunk Thread. :)

[skelly]

I've just completed a thorough search of those three lines using key words, and the results show that they all appear in two places: here in this thread, and in the poem, The Blonde Barbarian of my Dreams, that you posted on May 21st. Those three lines, or even key parts of them, don't exist anywhere else on AW.

Now you can relax and have a beer on me in The Drunk Thread. :)
On my way, sir!

Thanks SK :)

[alleycat]

On my way, sir!

Thanks SK :)
Don't believe him. Silver does the old "Have you got change for a hundred-dollar bill?" trick. You'll end up buying the beer.

;-)

[Silver King]

On my way, sir!

Thanks SK :)
My pleasure.

I understand how even the hint of lifting someone else's work and passing it as your own can send any honest writer into a rage. Even if it were entirely unfounded, if it happened to me, I'd be so upset by the notion that I might never recover.

[veinglory]

Why I suggested this is different from a normal rant is because it is based on a PM communication with another member of this forum who you could always talk to directly in the same why they contacted you. You use words like fucking, goddam and "blood rage" and suggest they have intimated things they may never have intended to. That's a bit hard on someone whom you seem to recognise was actually trying to be helpful.

[skelly]

You use words like fucking, goddam and "blood rage"

That's true. But I used them tastefully.

Seriously VG...I think it is well established that I went overboard on this one. Again, I apologize.

[Stew21]

skelly, It appears other mods have taken good care of you in my absence today, but if you would like to send me a PM to discuss further, I'll be around for a bit.

[alleycat]

Maybe lock this thread since everything has really been covered? Except for the beer.

[LimeyDawg]

You're quibbling over tribbles. If somebody said this to me, I'd search it, find nothing, and breathe a sigh of relief. Then I'd go over and have silver buy me a beer, since I got screwed this weekend and missed the fishing over at Boca Grande Pass.

[skelly]

You're quibbling over tribbles. If somebody said this to me, I'd search it, find nothing, and breathe a sigh of relief. Then I'd go over and have silver buy me a beer, since I got screwed this weekend and missed the fishing over at Boca Grande Pass.
I got screwed and had to duck tornados, so we're more or less even. But you are right. As soon as I finish playing vid games with the son I'm goingto start the grill and go annoy people in the drunk thread.

I hear Silver King's buying ;)

[Silver King]

...I got screwed this weekend and missed the fishing over at Boca Grande Pass.
That sounds like a travesty almost as bad as being accused of plagiarism!

I've got to have my tarpon fix this time of year, but I avoid Boca and work the beaches instead. Less boats, plenty of room to fish and decent pods between the pass and Venice if you don't mind looking for them. Mornings are good, but I favor the evening bite when there's hardly any boat traffic and the fish have settled down.

If you haven't tried tarpon fishing along the coast, give it a try for an entirely different and pleasant experience.

Now I'm tempted to post a tarpon picture, but I'm afraid of setting a bad precedent for the Poetry forum. ;)

[alleycat]

Well, since we're getting complete off topic anyway . . .

Speaking of fishing, I'm currently reading To Have and Have Not for the first time. I'd seen the movie, of course.

[Medievalist]

Skelly, I've just searched on AW and the net, and two very specific library-only poetry databases.

They're not anywhere else but where you've posted them.

You're fine.

[skelly]

Skelly, I've just searched on AW and the net, and two very specific library-only poetry databases.

They're not anywhere else but where you've posted them.

You're fine.
Well if that aint about the last word on the thing, I don't know what is.

Thanks Med.

Honestly, I knew that I hadn't purposefully lifted anything from anyone....but there is this lingering doubt where it concerns the concept of writing something and claiming it as your own, only to find out that it was something that you read once, twenty years ago, and somehow got lodged in your brain.

That terrifies me, because I've read A BUTT LOAD of stuff.

Anyway, thanks Med.

[Cranky]

Well if that aint about the last word on the thing, I don't know what is.

Thanks Med.

Honestly, I knew that I hadn't purposefully lifted anything from anyone....but there is this lingering doubt where it concerns the concept of writing something and claiming it as your own, only to find out that it was something that you read once, twenty years ago, and somehow got lodged in your brain.

That terrifies me, because I've read A BUTT LOAD of stuff.

Anyway, thanks Med.

I've been there, done that myself, and quite recently. It wasn't plagiarism, per se, but close enough to rattle my cage pretty hard. I managed to get through it by making some changes (and now the entire concept has been changed so much it longer matters), and I'm sure you would, too.

It's a tough pill to swallow, and I won't lie...I was totally and completely freaked out. I didn't write a thing for over a week and I spent a lot of time obsessing over it. I'm being ultra-careful from now on. Nobody pointed this out to me, btw, I saw it on my own. And that was bad enough.

Anyways...back to fishing? :D

[skelly]

Yes... I'm sure it just raised a memory in someone of a similar scene. Although I'm not quite sure that someone should have did what they did. I know it would upset me if somebody suggested such a thing of me.

This from the guy who responded to one of Stew's (Trish's) poems with a poem... now if that wasn't stealing, I don't know what is.

Oh, and by the way... I thought it was a lovely poem... nice job indeed.
Thanks Kevin and I cannot stress this enough...the person who sent the original PM has PM'd me since and is just sick about the whole thing. I took them at their word that they were not accusing me of anything and I fully believe that to be the case now.

I'm the one who freaked and pulled the fire alarm.

[Silver King]

...Anyways...back to fishing? :D

Sure thing. (Hope Trish or Rob don't decide to ban me from Poetry.)

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa62/Silver-King/Tarpon06-25-08175-3.jpg

[Silver King]

Just how many times is that fish gonna jump outta the watta?
You're right. I ought to change mascots. That one's getting tired. I'll freshen up the scenery in future posts.

[poetinahat]

Sure thing. (Hope Trish or Rob don't decide to ban me from Poetry.)

<pic clipped>

Dude, to the contrary.

You are hereby under Poetry House Arrest - you may not leave until you have read, from cover to cover, Richard Brautigan's Trout Fishing in America.

After that, you won't want to be anywhere else.

You're welcome.

[poetinahat]

Scott, I can understand how you felt. A vague, unspecified allusion like that is completely unhelpful, and it would be a burr under one's blanket.

[ETA: Just saw the part about how it's all been resolved. Glad to know it! Memo to self: Read past the first line of every post.]

[Williebee]

Trout Fishing in America?

I love that band! (http://www.troutmusic.com/)

[poetinahat]

I'd heard of Trout Fishing in Quebec (http://www.amo.org.au/release.asp?id=929).

Hmmm. I sense a new Office Party thread: Bands Named After Books. I'll add:

The Fall.

(Surely there has to be a band called The Fountainhead somewhere out there?)

[Dichroic]

Honestly, I knew that I hadn't purposefully lifted anything from anyone....but there is this lingering doubt where it concerns the concept of writing something and claiming it as your own, only to find out that it was something that you read once, twenty years ago, and somehow got lodged in your brain.

That terrifies me, because I've read A BUTT LOAD of stuff.


It does happen. For instance, I believe Colleen McCullough when she says that she didn't consciously plagiarize L.M. Montgomery's The Blue Castle for her Ladies of Missalonghi, but there's no way you can read LoM without thinking TBC was at least lurking in her backbrain somewhere. (IMO, anyway.) The thing that would bother me most if I were McCullough is that (IMO again) TBC is infinitely better than her book.

All you can do is to be as honest as you can. There's no way you can be a writer and not be influenced by what you've read; all you can do is mix the ingredients and make the flavors your own.

[Jens22]

Ugh . . . this takes me back to my undergrad days when I was "sort-of" accused of plagiarism in my first fiction workshop. While we were discussing my story, some guy, in front of a room of 15 people, starting going on about how he'd seen it before "somewhere" in "some book" he had at home (in another state), blah blah . . . but it was "okay" because "[my] version was actually better." I actually had to go make an appointment to see the instructor in her office about it. It was so humiliating. This guy had only a vague idea of the title (which I tried to look up and failed to find . . . this was in the pre-internet days :)), no idea of the author, and no copy of the book at hand. So when the prof realized this was getting us nowhere, she gave me a gentle lecture about how my story was hackneyed (eh, it kinda was, in an "I'm 18 years old and writing a horror story" kind of way, although I didn't plagarize a damn word) and I needed to "be more original." I don't know which was more depressing . . . being accused of being a thief or being accused of being a hack.

[HeronW]

I read a story here back in Dec, forgot about it, reread it a month or so ago, and told the author I'd read something very similar but I forgot where. Then it hit me... Combining 22000 members, hundreds of thousands of posts and bouncing all over to different areas of interest--it can happen. I apologized--all's well.

[skelly]

Jens22, I'm sure you are neither of those things :) HeronW, you are right, and the more distance that I get from this the more certain I am that that is probably what happened. I guess I kinda overreacted. It has made me a bit paranoid, though. I run everything through as many search engines as I can find...and the better the line or title or character name (or whatever), the more paranoid I am. Sort of like, oh that's WAAAY to good for me to have thought up...I must have read it somewhere.