First draft question: Do you just write or do you plan then write?

[BlueLucario]

I have a curious question for you. When you write, do you just write? Or do you have a scene in mind and write your way to that point? I had a scene in mind, but while writing everything gets in the way, pointless meandering. I get too concerned about the plot rather than the characters, which makes them forced and stilted. It is a character driven story.

How do you guys write? Do you write, and just write? Or do you make your way to that certain point?

[Chalula88]

I have tried both. I wrote with nothing in mind to see where the characters took the story and it went horribly. I had scene after scene of pointless meanderings. The characters did things that made sense, but had nothing to do with the story.

I've tried writing the story with a strict structure in mind and that didn't work either.

The best way to make something work for me is to write out some basic dialog that I want to hit, where I want the scene to start and where I want it to finish and any really important mannerisms or movements and then from there I follow it but only getting the gist of it. I don't force myself to the structure and I don't always even write it down, but having it on paper certainly helps.

I hope that helped?

[NatJM]

I wrote the first draft of my novel without much of a plan, except for a chapter breakdown (one or two sentences to describe each chapter) and what I thought was a fair idea of who the characters were. I wrote over 50,000 words.

I set it aside for a few weeks, and read through that first draft.

The story was sluggish, the main character was weak but there were also some good ideas in there and the second main character was strong, pushing me to work on my main character to match this one.

Then I used "the Marshall plan to novel writing" book. I had read it while writing my first draft, on the recommendation of a friend, and I found it helpful to plan my second draft.

It helped me to ask myself important questions about my characters (especially my main character) and the story (especially the importance of surprises) and I then fleshed out a scene by scene plan of the second draft, loosely based on the first draft as well as everything I had learnt about my story and characters since then.

I wrote the second draft following those scenes, which describe what the goal of the protagonist of the scene is, and the goal achieved (or not achieved), and basic details such as when and where it takes place.

I found it worked well for my second draft; I am in the editing stage of my second draft, and I can say both my main characters are now strongly defined and the story holds up together.

So after trying both, I would say that planning scenes help me write; however, I have adapted my plan as I went along and some issues/solutions came up. A plan isn't a plan unless it's flexible, and all that.

[Siddow]

I thought you were on a two-week hiatus.

Go!

[She_wulf]

I'm a subscriber to the "book concept" approach.

what is the main reason/point/story of the book?

From there I do one of two things. I either begin researching plausibility, or I "story dream" for a while.

Story dreaming is the stage where you are "seeing" scenes in your work that may or may not end up in the finished piece. As I flesh out the story and do research other things crop up which lead to yet more things. By the time I actually start putting more than a page or two down, I have an outline of events or at least character studies done.

Character studies are very helpful because they begin to give your character a "voice" and the story dreaming takes on a new aspect because your characters will see/do things you didn't expect. Or you think that something should happen a certain way and your characters literally (well, not literally but something close) tell you that it should work out "this way."

But before any of that is allowed to go very far, I know where the book ends. Without that benchmark/destination/whatever...my characters would just meander and get lost in an evil forest where either the trees or the bugs in the leaves rise up and eat them all because they are so hapless. :wicked:

So, to sum up...I guess I plot then write but sometimes plot points I wanted to make don't agree with the character personalities and I have to make adjustments. That's why I don't worry about points B, C, D, E, just point F and point A.

Which brings up another thing...story beginnings. Since I know where the story ends, what it is about, who is telling it, etc. I decide what determining event in the whole series of yet untold events is the most important starting point. For my first two full length finished works, I chose to start off with the character small. But it was a defining moment where their lives changed. OK that's within the "rules" so to speak. For the one I just finished, the MC just got out of prison and is adjusting to "normal" life and finds out he has a daughter who was born while he was "in." This revelation begins a series of events that lead to the finale... It was the most logical point to begin because it is where the action picks up.

When you story dream, you find that one defining moment where the story rock begins to roll downhill. Pick up the train of thought just at the "push" point and your story-telling should seem easy.

Hope that helps.

Amy

[Mumut]

I knew the ending of my first two books and, as She Wulf says, that was hugely helpful. I'm a quarter way through the third of the series and the ending is still too uncertain. I'm now working on that before I write anything else.

I also indulge in story dreaming. I have most of the events thought out before I start writing. As for characters, I wrote a half-page biography about each of the main characters before I started on the first book. That helped me keep them 'in character'.

I also get a lot of ideas for sub-plots, interesting situations etc from my research. My books are set in the middle of the fourteenth century and writings of all kinds from that period give me the boundaries of what action can be expected and also some incredible norms of the time. For example, Winkin de Word writes that as a guest at a Lords table you should not spit over or on the table cloth, nor in the water brought to wash your hands. You shouldn't spit a long way but when you DO spit, place your hand to the side of your mouth and spit gently behind you. With fifty people at most meals, I'd hate to have to clean the floor afterward!

[Andre_Laurent]

I plan out a loose outline so I knew where I'm going and at least some paths that will take me there. I know how it's going to end, not the details, but the basic end. Otherwise, I flounder and write worse crap than usual.

[Zelenka]

I do a loose outline then work into it in more detail before writing each chapter. I do tend to make a lot of notes before writing but I find that it helps to focus my mind and stir up other ideas, details etc. I've tried writing without an outline and though I ended up with a completed novel at the end, I found that it wasn't all that good in terms of plot. My weakest point is making sure there's enough tension and pace so I find an outline helps.

[miles]

I plan. Probably a little too much.

[spacejock2]

I used to just write, but nowadays I have to plan first. It's the only way I can meet deadlines.

The plan will never be perfect and it won't cover every eventuality, but at least it's a framework. Often the finished novel looks nothing like my outlines.

[Use Her Name]

I don't like getting lost, or finding out I have to destroy a whole section because I have written outside the lines, so I plan. I've had to throw out years of work before because I could not finish it, and I will never make that mistake again. I am an almost business like planner of at least the rough draft. I almost have "business meetings" with myself. I do a mock-up of the entire novel. Usually a one-two page synopsis of the chapter. I often do several chapters at a time, but I dont do the entire book at the same time. I have a "gole" ending, but sometimes the book loses subplots that don't work and so on. Everything is very loose until I start refining it. I go over the entire novel completely once in the rough draft, which is the "foundation" of the novel and requires more time than the rest, then each pass through I refine and polish. The rough draft is the novel in full, but messy and not as refined. Editing is actually a lot more fun because that is when I get to find "exact words," and so poetic things with language. This summer I plan on working on several rough drafts so that I will have a backlog of editing work for the coming few years.

[Linda Adams]

Plan in advance? No. I've tried that multiple ways, seeing if I could find away to simplify the process of writing an entire book. For some reason, the equivelent of throwing paint at the wall and seeing what sticks works better for me.

In the small amount of planning, I did the following:

Hook: I identified what made the story stand out from others the agent was receiving (this is not plot or story, by the way).

Title: I came up with a title to match the hook.

Scene outline: This was a very short outline of the ten scenes of the book (ten scenes revers to a single event that may cover many pages, not a scene in a chapter).

Then I wrote most of a first draft in thirty days. I stopped when the story fell apart, and I was writing for word count but not productive. Nothing relating to the scene outline ended up in it, and I only figured out who the villain once after I got through the middle. I'd thought it was someone else. I also thought the story was about this, and and after I got a first draft, I realized it was about something else. I actually needed to write the story to figure out what it was about.

Which was pretty much how I wrote the last one. The plus is that I have improved on this--I knew what to look for, and I got what the story
is about during the first revision, not something like five revisions later.

[xiph]

[deleted]

[CaroGirl]

I don't outline but I do write scene by scene. When I sit down to write, I have the next scene in mind when I begin (or I'm continuing the scene I didn't finish the last time I sat down to write). Usually, if I'm lucky, by the time I finish one scene I have an idea for the next one. If I'm super lucky, I can think about three scenes ahead, and I almost always have the ending planned.

[IdiotsRUs]

I have certain scenes to aim for -- may be three of four big ones. The rest -- I write and stuff pops up in my head. Then I edit out the weirdest stuff :)

( that decapitation scene probably won't fly in a romance)

[C.M.C.]

If I don't have at least an idea of where it is I'm trying to go, I find myself getting bored with my meanderings. They're not bad, but a little bit of focus is never a bad thing.

[Bubastes]

Loose outline, then write.

[Melenka]

I start writing to see if it grabs me. If it makes me want to write more, then there's a chance it will make the reader want to read more. Once I have the characters established, I can do a rough outline of plot progression, but I can never do a detailed one. Plot points are subject to moving around or being discarded, as are chapters, though less often. I do know the ending and what the last line will be. I just have to write my way there.

[dirtsider]

At this point, I have a vague idea of a plot and a couple of scenes in mind that I know I want in the story. Other than that, I'm writing and making it up as I go along. I haven't mastered the "outline then write" deal. I am taking notes as I go along, though - character abilities/quirks/motivations, plot ideas, etc.

[JamieFord]

I write scene by scene.

[Blackest_Nite]

When an idea comes to me I have to write it down. I find that if I plan my writing I get impatient. My first draft is always what I like to refer to as 'the bones.' All I write is basic information and occasionally a few descriptive sentences that pop into my head.
So in a sense I am always 'winging it.'

[Licia]

I do a basic plot outline with a hook and main characters. That's it. I write and see where the story goes, then I read the first draft and bang it around until it's down a few thousand words, and cut out meaningless dialogue/scenes.

Also, I make heaps of notes for myself while hammering out the first draft. I find if I plan it too much, I obsess and never actually get to the writing.

[johnzakour]

I plan, plan, plan and then plan some more. Then I write knowing all that planning is flexible.

[beezle]

Planning? Who needs planning? It's all about action! Did the Egyptians waste time planning when they built the Bent Pyramid? No! They just got on with the job, gosh-darnit.

[Triomferus]

I plan enough to make a "scaffolding" of an idea, then refine it iteratively until I have enough that I'm comfortable I could make a lot out of what I've done. Narrowing down the starting and end points is of especial importance. While I am looking at doing non-fiction writing myself, the same thing applies to a novel as well: you can't really just write forever. Having a roughly-defined plan that is flexible (as all plans that are well-designed aim to be) is a must for me, or else it could turn into a 5,000-page monster :eek: .

[maestrowork]

Not another "outline" debate, I hope.

I do both. I can't really write if I don't at least have a faint idea what the story is, and where it is going. I don't mean every step of the way or the whole itinerary, but I need to know my set pieces, my stops along the way, and some idea of where the destination is. Or I'll be completely lost.

Otherwise, I just drive and see where the journey takes me. Sometimes it may lead me on a detour but that's perfectly fine. I love a good detour. But again, I need to have the guideposts to steer me on course again. Sometimes these guideposts may change based on where the trip is going. Obviously, I'm not going to stop in St. Louis if I've already gone to New Orleans. But eventually, I'd like to know I'll end up somewhere in California, and not Canada.

[johnzakour]

Planning? Who needs planning? It's all about action! Did the Egyptians waste time planning when they built the Bent Pyramid? No! They just got on with the job, gosh-darnit.

Sorry but in my case I need to plan. I usually have one book in post production, another I am writing, another I am promoting and another I am getting ready to write. If I don't do some planning (due to my limited brain space) things will get very confusing and the wrong characters will end up popping up in the wrong books.

PS: I'm pretty sure the Egyptians had some plans for those pyramids.

[Charlie Horse]

The details of my life are quite inconsequential.... Very well, where do I begin? My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner from Belgium with low-grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. My mother was a 15-year-old French prostitute named Chloe with webbed feet. My father would womanize; he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes, he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament... My childhood was typical: summers in Rangoon... luge lessons... In the spring, we'd make meat helmets... When I was insolent I was placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds — pretty standard, really.

But enough about me. You do whatever works best for you.

[RickN]

I usually write mysteries, so there's always a crime or ten of some type. I write down the crimes from the criminal's point of view -- "what really happened". After that, I come up with the rough outline of how the cops/PI/whoever uncover "what really happened". Makes clue/red herring/false accusations/AHA! moments easier to place.

[steveg144]

I tried the NaNoWriMo approach with my first novel and "just wrote." Wound up having to spend several months cleaning up the mess. Now I tend to front-load the process by doing a good deal of planning: where is the story coming from, where is it going to, and how is it getting there?

[gem1122]

I tried the NaNoWriMo approach with my first novel and "just wrote." Wound up having to spend several months cleaning up the mess. Now I tend to front-load the process by doing a good deal of planning: where is the story coming from, where is it going to, and how is it getting there?

Good points.

I think a balance needs to be found. Jumping in without some small idea of direction seems setting yourself up for disaster. On the other hand, I think that at some point, you just have to accept the truth that nothing is fully predictable and that things WILL change, no matter how well you think you've planned the trip.

[Jeremy]

I do a lot of planning in my head. I’m also starting to work on incorporating very loose style for an outline. For example, I know of some major points I need/want to get into my story, so I list some things that need to happen before or to cause the major point in the story and that’s it.

With the loose outline and plans in my head I can begin to write and not be restricted in what specifically happens. I’m able to just witness what the characters are doing and simply write down what they’re doing. Yet I have some direction in mind for what the characters need to do, so I (hopefully) have good pacing.

[Tirjasdyn]

Yep I plan. I change as needed too.

[tehuti88]

It's kind of hard for me to reply...I guess writing a story comes to me rather naturally! (Long, LONG stories...not short ones.)

I tend to get a general idea in mind of what I want to happen, then go from there. I don't so much plan to start a story as it kind of germinates in my head and then I put down the words. I used an outline once or twice, but for me, they help mostly when the story is almost done and I just want to make a list of the remaining events that I want to remember to include. To this day I feel that the story I did outline came out quite forced and stilted. I just make it up as I go along and as long as I keep track of details, it seems to work better for me.

My situation's a bit odd though as I already have most of my characters BEFORE the stories...it's kind of hard to explain...basically I write in only several storylines with pre-existing characters. This makes it easier for me in terms of characters fitting into stories, and writing character-based fiction, but on the other hand, it makes it hard to gain readers since all of my stories are set in existing storylines that most people aren't familiar with unless they've read my other stuff.

So I guess the short reply is I kind of do it both ways. I get an idea in mind, then just write. Sometimes it doesn't turn out the way I expected, but that just makes it interesting. :)

[wayndom]

I have a curious question for you. When you write, do you just write? Or do you have a scene in mind and write your way to that point? I had a scene in mind, but while writing everything gets in the way, pointless meandering. I get too concerned about the plot rather than the characters, which makes them forced and stilted. It is a character driven story.

Sounds like your problem is that you envision a scene you want to get to, instead of envisioning the scene you want to start with.

Every story needs conflict, and the stories that grab readers' attention best are those that introduce the conflict from the get-go.

Eric Ambler, who was one of the finest espionage writers of all time, started one of his later novels as follows (from memory):

"The threatening letter arrived at the office on Monday; the bomb arrived on Wednesday."

Alice In Wonderland starts when Alice sees a talking rabbit run by.

Start you story where it begins, not at some point prior to the beginning, and you shouldn't have trouble with your writing meandering away from the story.

[gem1122]

Start you story where it begins.

I've heard this statement before and wonder how exactly you know where it begins.

For instance, my WIP begins with the MC getting a phone call from his girlfriend who tells him she's pregnant. Through the first several chapters, I include backstory to fill in how they met, when they had sex, etc. None of my readers had ever questioned where it began. Today, a reader suggested that if I feel it necessary to include that backstory, then I should just begin the story where the two meet.

My concern with this is whether or not there is enough tension within their first meetings (I suppose I could add some) to carry the story forward to the "I'm pregnant" moment.

So, do I begin the story where it begins or where it really gets interesting? I'm confused...

I'm going to try to flesh out some of those 'first meeting' scenes to see what happens.

[Dale Emery]

I've heard this statement before and wonder how exactly you know where it begins.

I like Crawford Kilian (http://crofsblogs.typepad.com/fiction/2005/03/starting_a_nove.html)'s guideline: Begin at the moment when the story itself becomes inevitable.

It seems to me that until the MC's girlfriend tells him she's pregnant, the story could go some other way. For example, up until that point she could terminate the pregnancy without telling him. But once she tells him, there's no way for his status quo to continue.

For instance, my WIP begins with the MC getting a phone call from his girlfriend who tells him she's pregnant. Through the first several chapters, I include backstory to fill in how they met, when they had sex, etc. None of my readers had ever questioned where it began. Today, a reader suggested that if I feel it necessary to include that backstory, then I should just begin the story where the two meet.

Try this guideline: Which approach gives the inciting incident the biggest emotional impact on the reader?

If you can grab readers by starting with the inciting incident, do that.

If readers will understand the full impact of the inciting incident only if they first understand something about the characters and their situation, then start with the characters and their situation.

Do whatever you gotta do to make sure that the inciting incident whacks the reader with the maximum wallop.

Dale

[Straka]

I promised myself I was going to start outline, but I've discovered my best writing comes from shooting a bit from the hip. What I do is get a concept of a character, and think about where I want them to be in 3 chapters, then I write what it takes to get there. Meanwhile I start thinking where do I want them half way through the manuscript? Then what do I want the ending to be like? Then I keeping writing to reach those concepts but staying loose enough to allow the characters to grow organically, if that makes sense.

[jannawrites]

For this, my first novel, I just wrote. Though I knew where I wanted the story to end, most plot points didn't come to me until I was in the thick of them.

[Novelhistorian]

I don't outline. I have a vague idea of how certain things sort of go (sorry, I can't be more specific) and may spend a lot of time trying to find where to begin. Sometimes it drives me crazy. For my current WIP, I spent ten months writing four chapters--tearing up and rewriting, tearing up and rewriting. I was almost ready to pack it in. But I knew I had something I wanted; it was like feeling in a dark room for the door you know must be there. I found the door after the fourth chapter and wrote the next eight-plus in as many weeks. Total rought draft: 107,000 words.

It's not for everybody, but it worked for me. I have a few blind alleys to seal up, none important, and the usual prose sharpening and character tweaking, but overall, I like what I have.

[DVGuru]

I use a program for the Mac called Scrivener. It has a corkboard feature that allows me to use virtual index cards. I jot down a couple of sentences about the scene and build my story from start to finish. This method works well for me because I know my story and where I'm going next, but I fill in the finer details of a scene while I'm writing it.

[Rowdymama]

To me, planning comes first. I simply must have an outline to go by. My most talented client at the moment is 16 years old, and instinctively knows more about writing than many accomplished people. She has been with me for six months (see her recommendation at my website, http://pygmypress.com/services). From my experience at allexperts.com, where I've answered over 1350 questions from writers, I've found that the most common complaint is "How do I start?" My answer is, you start with planning - answering the big questions first - which allows you eventually to make an outline, or a very careful synopsis, from which the book practically writes itself.

Without this kind of guiding, or mentoring, the emerging writer is apt to flounder around in their material for months or even years, writing and self-editing, draft after draft, and not accomplishing anything. This is extremely frustrating (as many of us know!)

My plan works for all types of writing.

[Karen Duvall]

I don't think you have to have your plot planned out ahead of time, but I do think you need to know your story people extremely well before sending them off on their journey. If they don't know where they're going, any road will take them there, and that could be a problem.

So what I'm saying is that I don't plan out the story, but I do plan out the people. The main people, anyway. What does my MC want and why can't he/she have it? What stands in his/her way? And if he/she doesn't get it, what will happen? What's at stake? Once I answer these questions, the story gets well underway. But I can't answer the questions until I'm intimately acquainted with the character. I don't plot for story, I plot for character.

[Talkatoast]

I write to plan. I plan to write.

[Staroffurby]

I do use a plan, but its normally very basic. This allows my imagination to take over when i get into the flow of writing. This is often when i am at my most creative, the problem then becomes, how do i get all these millions of thoughts, images and ideas onto the screen. Its just not possible to type fast enough to get them all down, so its often which ever idea that shouts the loudest makes it to screen.

[runner4life]

I've done both ways. Of course when I write with no plan in mind, its harder to know where I want the story to go. Therefore, it ends up being a jumbled up mess and hating the work. It is a nice exercise though just to write what comes to mind. So if I'm writing something serious than I plan it out.

[Telstar]

I cant really write without a good outline (and other background informations).
It just works this way for me.

[treehugger]

What I write is mostly character driven, so I don't really feel no need to outline, since the plot is so malleable. It would be different if I was writing a mystery or something like that. I usually have a general idea of what I want to accomplish (i.e., how I want the MC to change over the course of the story) and maybe a few possible scenes or plot twists I want to include, but generally I let the story grow organically.

[Hollan]

I have a very loose outline, a short paragraph on the MC, a few scenes I know I need to hit and what not. What I really need, more than anything, is to know what 2 things my MC wants more than anything. One tangible, the other not. Then I just write and the story moves naturally. Until my characters start showing personality traits I didn't know they had, and popping up in scenes they aren't supposed to be in. A plan might hold them in place, but that would be boring!

[Zoombie]

I channel things directly from the Ether and into the keyboard.

Then I go back and beat it to a bloody pulp with my Editing Club.

[Daimeera]

I sort of outline in my head, I guess. Although generally my outline is for the immediate future--the next chapter or two. For short stories, however, I often plan it out beforehand. But I can't write anything down as far as guidelines go or I find I lose my passion, or that it doesn't ring true to the characters.

For me, it's very much a character driven process. That's not to say I always get it right the first time; it takes me awhile to get to know the characters.

But almost without fail, I lack an outline. And that's the way I like it.

[Mark Walton]

I am someone who likes to have the entire novel plotted before I start. I know exactly what's happening in each scene in each chapter and how many words I expect to be writing.
Then I start to write and a lot of it goes out the window. But I know if I didn't structure to begin with, the writing would go nowhere.
By plotting so exactly, I tend to answer a lot of questions up front. What is the character's motivation? But why would they do that? Then I can make sure I foreshadow anyhthing that's going to be important later.
Being the organised type, I also amend my outline as my writing takes me to pastures new.
I have put quite a few articles together on writing on my site, take a look if it suits:
http://www.betternovelwriting.com

Mark

[AJMarks]

I guess I'd be the type who knows the ending, beginning, and the major scenes for the main storyline then wing it from scene to scene with the knowlegde of where it needs to go.

I tried having an outline a couple of times, but each time I got though the beginning then lost all interest in writing the story. No planning at all and I get no ending to the story.