Another Skeleton for Obama

[NikeeGoddess]

"William Ayers, in the age of terrorism, will be Barack Obama's Willie Horton."
obama's weatherman connection.
guilt by association... again. this time with a known terrorist.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/02/obamas_weatherman_connection.html
i said it before. if you want to run for president then you need to be squeaky clean from the time you leave college.

[InfinityGoddess]

Ayers was never convicted. Nice try.

[NikeeGoddess]

Although never convicted of any crime, he told the New York Times in September 2001, "I don't regret setting bombs...I feel we didn't do enough."

how many people think OJ is innocent? and he didn't even admit this much. charges and guilty convictions are two different things if you have the right lawyer.

[mscelina]

*sigh*

Wow. Two hundred bucks. What a stretch.

[InfinityGoddess]

Although never convicted of any crime, he told the New York Times in September 2001, "I don't regret setting bombs...I feel we didn't do enough."

how many people think OJ is innocent? and he didn't even admit this much. charges and guilty convictions are two different things if you have the right lawyer.

OJ won because the prosecution was dumb enough (despite warnings not to by Johnny Cochrane) to put a racist cop on the stand who perjured himself about using the n-word. In Ayer's case, the prosecution couldn't prove his ties to terrorists.

Another ho-hum.

[Bird of Prey]

OJ won because the prosecution was dumb enough (despite warnings not to by Johnny Cochrane) to put a racist cop on the stand who perjured himself about using the n-word. In Ayer's case, the prosecution couldn't prove his ties to terrorists.

Another ho-hum.


The "racist cop" was play-acting. He wasn't put in context. The tapes were some Hollywood thing or some such gig.

[nybx4life]

OJ won because the prosecution was dumb enough (despite warnings not to by Johnny Cochrane) to put a racist cop on the stand who perjured himself about using the n-word. In Ayer's case, the prosecution couldn't prove his ties to terrorists.

Another ho-hum.

Another strong example of why people up on the scale of fame get it easy for crimes instead of regular people.
Best believe any regular African-American doing the same crime would possibly already have 10 years in prison already, if not worse.

[InfinityGoddess]

Another strong example of why people up on the scale of fame get it easy for crimes instead of regular people.
Best believe any regular African-American doing the same crime would possibly already have 10 years in prison already, if not worse.

Yep.

[whistlelock]

I was kinda hoping for something new, but this is the same ol same ol.

[Joe270]

The only thing this shows me is just how low the Hillary camp will stoop to dirty up the campaign.

Just another reason why I'd never vote for her.

[nybx4life]

Well, politics was never the type of game anybody wanted to play, because you'd know somebody's gonna cheat, some time or another.

[William Haskins]

I was kinda hoping for something new, but this is the same ol same ol.

another drip drip drip of revelations about obama's past association with radicals and other assorted shady characters?

you're right. it's becoming routine.

obama's been quite deft at sidestepping these so far: the homophobic gospel singer, the communist mentor, the radical and racist preacher of 20 years (and james meeks hasn't really even joined the list in the public consciousness but, trust me, he will), and the former admitted terrorist.

but he's only sidestepped them individually.

hillary's camp has had to be focused on what's happening on the ground, in real time. a campaign at this pace is built from sound bites.

the republicans do not have to be so immediately reactive.

every brick that obama hands hillary to throw at him, and then subsequently dodges, is picked up by some republican group, slathered with mortar and stacked.

if you think otherwise, you haven't observed very many presidential races.

[nybx4life]

makes me think of the *gasp* ironic: McCain wins the election because so much of the faults of our Democratic nominees the entire USA can't trust them anymore in any position of politics.

[William Haskins]

ironic or not, that's likely what's going to happen.

obama supporters, riddle me this: if he's so revolutionary, so inspiring, so loved by the people, how is it he can't (with all the money, with all the delegates, with all the momentum) put away a woman with tons of political and personal baggage, who voted for the war, who saber-rattles iran, who voted for the patriot act, who lied every bit as brazenly on camera as her husband (granted, minus the wagging finger) after 7 years of george bush for the nomination for the fucking democratic party? in late april?

you might need to go ahead and face the fact that mr. obama may well be the weakest democratic front runner ever.

[nybx4life]

Not to be racial, but this is how I see it:

When Obama came in, people saw a peace-seeking visionary like Martin Luther King Jr. in him, mainly because he's black.
Of course, he pushed that aside as regarding himself as "not black, but a mix of races"

With Hilary, people see a step towards women's history, a chance to have women finally respected as equals of men.

And McCain....well, he's the average Joe.

With all this dirt, the average Joe has nothing really bad against him because....he's average.

[InfinityGoddess]

ironic or not, that's likely what's going to happen.

obama supporters, riddle me this: if he's so revolutionary, so inspiring, so loved by the people, how is it he can't (with all the money, with all the delegates, with all the momentum) put away a woman with tons of political and personal baggage, who voted for the war, who saber-rattles iran, who voted for the patriot act, who lied every bit as brazenly on camera as her husband (granted, minus the wagging finger) after 7 years of george bush for the nomination for the fucking democratic party? in late april?

you might need to go ahead and face the fact that mr. obama may well be the weakest democratic front runner ever.

To say that he can't win the big states is BS. He'll still get the most loyal of Democratic voters, if only because they don't want McCain in office. Add that to new voter registrations going Democratic overwhelmingly, any cross-over votes, and the independents, and he still has a shot.

[NikeeGoddess]

The only thing this shows me is just how low the Hillary camp will stoop to dirty up the campaign.how do you blame hillary for this. it was in the washington post AND if you read further it doesn't give "bill" clinton clean hands either. every time the media throws something in the wind (hoping that it will stick) she gets blamed for it.

[NikeeGoddess]

To say that he can't win the big states is BS.they're already saying this on CNN... and showing which states have been taken by republicans in the past. you think you know more than they do?

[nybx4life]

me? Know more than CNN? HAH!
I'm just trying to sound smart..and give my opinion on this whole elections race at the same time.

[InfinityGoddess]

they're already saying this on CNN... and showing which states have been taken by republicans in the past. you think you know more than they do?

I meant traditionally blue states like California and those states trending blue like Pennsylvania. Those will not go to McCain. A place like Texas might be a bit different. The loss today does not mean that Obama can't pull it off in general. He's already got the nomination in the bag. It's just that there are some (including Hillary herself) who refuse to acknowledge that.

[nybx4life]

I meant traditionally blue states like California and those states trending blue like Pennsylvania. Those will not go to McCain. A place like Texas might be a bit different. The loss today does not mean that Obama can't pull it off in general. He's already got the nomination in the bag. It's just that there are some (including Hillary herself) who refuse to acknowledge that.

Actually, that's true. Isn't he ahead by some 100+ delegates?

[Joe270]

how do you blame hillary for this. it was in the washington post AND if you read further it doesn't give "bill" clinton clean hands either. every time the media throws something in the wind (hoping that it will stick) she gets blamed for it.

You don't seriously expect me to believe that this reporter wasn't fed this info from the Hillary camp?

It's all about motivation. Either the reporter is firmly entrenched in the Hillary camp, or he got the scoop from them. No one else has the motivation.

Besides, served on a poverty committee together? Now that's downright nasty trying to help the poor.

A $200 donation? C'mon. What about all the Chinese busboys donating thousands to Hillary's campaign? That's a question which never got answered, but that's typical of the Clintons, the questions never get answered.

she gets blamed for it

If she gets the POTUS job, she'll get blamed for everything, too. Perhaps she's just not up to the task.

[nybx4life]

Just to point out... I saw from the movie "Sicko" that Hilary, during her time as First Lady instead of presidential candidate, she suggested national health care.

I bet she could really swing the election her way if she brings it up.
But the capitalist economy would probably start jump at her throat with knives.

[William Haskins]

Just to point out... I saw from the movie "Sicko" that Hilary, during her time as First Lady instead of presidential candidate, she suggested national health care.

I bet she could really swing the election her way if she brings it up.
But the capitalist economy would probably start jump at her throat with knives.

i don't even know how to respond to this.

[nybx4life]

i don't even know how to respond to this.


It's more like if she can bring about the changes that can help raise our standard of living.
I don't know how you're respondless to this. It's more of a "FYI, you'll never pay attention to it but just if you're curious..." type of thing.

BTW, did you know the US ranked at 357th for quality of health care?
Cuba did better than us *gasp*

[InfinityGoddess]

Actually, that's true. Isn't he ahead by some 100+ delegates?

Yep, with more supers on the way and an expected win in North Carolina by a substantial margin.

[nybx4life]

My point.
I just hope that Obama doesn't screw the country over worse than Bush did.

But then again....what president screwed this country up worse than Bush??

[Williebee]

You probably shouldn't start comparing the skeletons in candidate's closets. After all, some would say that some of Sen. Clinton's are actually dead (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_Foster).

[nybx4life]

Never completely understood that phrase but...

If the skeletons in their closets weren't dead, wouldn't they be zombies?

[MichaelDeVere]

You don't have to be squeaky clean.

You simply must not inhale.

Don't forget Ron Brown Williebee.

[InfinityGoddess]

My point.
I just hope that Obama doesn't screw the country over worse than Bush did.

But then again....what president screwed this country up worse than Bush??

Obama won't. As far as who screwed up this country worse than Bush? It's all a matter of opinion. My answer is nobody.

[nybx4life]

Hmm........
just thinking again....
I wonder if Hilary would come up with her idea of nationalized health care again, or would Obama go for that idea?

Either way, I hope one of the two does, if not them, then McCain. And when they do propose it, they don't sell out to these capitalist companies making a quick buck out of a person's health.

[NikeeGoddess]

nybx - did you just wake up? that healthcare issue has been on the table since day one for both candidates.

[nybx4life]

nybx - did you just wake up? that healthcare issue has been on the table since day one for both candidates.

To be more precise, I flipped through the channels and just happened to get a glimpse of the election race.

Unfortunately so far, nobody has showed results I want to hear, which is are they going to support nationalized health care or not?
Maybe they did, but I was still asleep then:P

[NikeeGoddess]

it's old news - they both want national health care. their plans are all out and on the table for everyone to see. they're almost identical. and it's not support. they promise to make it happen.

[nybx4life]

Alright, then that leaves the problem of economy and the falling real estate market (with the exception of NYC because - we're nice - this city doesn't slip:D), who got the better idea on reversing the downfall?

[whistlelock]

another drip drip drip of revelations about obama's past association with radicals and other assorted shady characters?

. ah, no. I was hoping for something I hadn't read up on yet. I'll just have to wait until a new one falls out of the closet. maybe the next one will be gay?

[small axe]

obama supporters, riddle me this: if he's so revolutionary, so inspiring, so loved by the people, how is it he can't (with all the money, with all the delegates, with all the momentum) put away a woman with tons of political and personal baggage, who voted for the war, who saber-rattles iran, who voted for the patriot act, who lied every bit as brazenly on camera as her husband (granted, minus the wagging finger) after 7 years of george bush for the nomination for the fucking democratic party? in late april?


Because he is 'revolutionary' and 'inspiring' in that he won't stoop into the sewer of ad hominem politics and mud-slinging ... and that is WHY he is 'so loved by the people' ??? :D

I dunno, it's frightening ... Some of those who attack Obama (though no one here, since this is just a word picture) for not being "tough" enough to "finish Hillary off" are like a drunken whore, cynical and drunk and broken-souled by thirty years of being abused by men ... screaming angrily at a man because she cannot heap enough abuse on him to enrage him enough to hit her.

Because she is so cynical and used to abuse, that now she thinks the only emotion she deserves from a man, and the proof she needs in her deluded and pathetic need for an emotional connection -- is for him to become angry enough to strike her.

Some What are you?! Not man enough to hit me?! sort of sad self-destructive, self-loathing nonsense.

'And then he hit me
And it felt like a kiss'
--Carol King

:(

Perhaps Obama is better than wanting to 'put away a woman'

Perhaps Obama is ethically disgusted by the mob's lust to see its politicians 'put each other away' ... since he's already said in speeches he thinks such ugly tactics are how the corrupt system 'distracts' the political process from focusing on the real ISSUES to win real CHANGE.

I dunno, it's a riddle to me too. Is Wayne Brady gonna hafta CHOKE a b*tch?! :) (If anyone recalls that skit from the Dave Chapelle show? I fell off the couch laughing at that line)

[johnnysannie]

"William Ayers, in the age of terrorism, will be Barack Obama's Willie Horton."
obama's weatherman connection.
guilt by association... again. this time with a known terrorist.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/02/obamas_weatherman_connection.html
i said it before. if you want to run for president then you need to be squeaky clean from the time you leave college.

Obama was eight years old when Ayers was involved in "terrorism" and blogs - even those of The Washington Post - are not valid news sources.

[Takvah]

i don't even know how to respond to this.

Dude I spit up iced coffee...

[robeiae]

Dude I spit up iced coffee...But what kind did you drink?

[cethklein]

Obama simply took a donation from Bill Ayers. Hillary's husband PARDONED the two members of Weather Underground who were convicted. Why no mention of that here Nikee?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_Sue_Evans

She received a 40 year sentence, which was commuted by President Bill Clinton January 20, 2001

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Rosenberg

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D06EED7133CF931A15752C0A9679C8B 63


I'll say this again as many of us have told you: You REALLY need to research this stuff before posting it. You just shot your own candidate in the foot.....again. I find it astonishing that you simply psot these "articles" based solely on something you heard on a pro-Hillary website. You REALLY need to look at the big picture so as not to look follish. One day you'll realize that pro-Hillary websites, like Hillary herself, tend to leave out the facts the contradict the message they're trying to send.

[Takvah]

William Ayers is not just a donor to Barack Obama's campaign. The two of them were on the "Woods" board. Ayers had a campaign event at his home for Obama in 1995. They're a little more familiar than just a candidate and a donor. I don't know whether or not there is merit to bringing up this fact, but when put in the context of Obama and the people around him that loathe America, it makes sense. I mean, it seems that a lot of the people that support this guy also happen to hate this country. I find the whole thing rather uncomfortable.

[MichaelDeVere]

William Ayers is not just a donor to Barack Obama's campaign. The two of them were on the "Woods" board. Ayers had a campaign event at his home for Obama in 1995. They're a little more familiar than just a candidate and a donor. I don't know whether or not there is merit to bringing up this fact, but when put in the context of Obama and the people around him that loathe America, it makes sense. I mean, it seems that a lot of the people that support this guy also happen to hate this country. I find the whole thing rather uncomfortable.

No, God DAMN America!

[donroc]

Can someone enlighten me why Clinton pardoned the Weathermen? Did they at least express regret for their actions unlike Ayers? If not, that one is a wash -- until the fall campaign. Blowing up buldings vs. a stay at the Hanoi Hilton. Yes, I know, Ayers is not the one running for President, but still ....

[cethklein]

The pardons were part of Bill Clinton's cowardly 11th hour pardoning spree before leaving office. It tainted his legacy but most had forgotten about it. He can thank his wife for digging it back up. Although Bill likely still believes he did nothing wrong

[Joe270]

Obama simply took a donation from Bill Ayers. Hillary's husband PARDONED the two members of Weather Underground who were convicted.

:ROFL:

It seems the Clintons can't do anything without shooting themselves in the foot. Feet? Foots?

[InfinityGoddess]

:ROFL:

It seems the Clintons can't do anything without shooting themselves in the foot. Feet? Foots?

I've noticed quite a few politicians get the ol' foot-in-mouth disease once in a while. My concern is whether or not they own up to it.

[NikeeGoddess]

you guys are still under the assumption that the clintons brought this up. they didn't. the media did. why would they purposely bring up old baggage on bill? they didn't bring up wright either but only showed evidence that wright was a guest at the white house. they didn't bring up sommalian garb either but only showed evidence that bill wore african garb when meeting an african leader too.

the media is the blame for so much more damage and you clinton haters can see through the red in your eyes. you're always out for clinton blood even when it's not warranted.

I'll say this again as many of us have told you: You REALLY need to research this stuff before posting it. You just shot your own candidate in the foot.....again.i'm just posting stuff for open debate. if it goes a way i don't like, then that's the way it goes. i do favor clinton but i'm not lovesick blind like some obama supporters who think he cannot do wrong. the link shows damage to obama and bill, not hillary... hence the slant toward obama damage -- but most do not separate the two.

i think it's just more dirt the mccain campaign... demonstrating a history of poor judgement amongst colleagues.

[GeorgeK]

Just to point out... I saw from the movie "Sicko" that Hilary, during her time as First Lady instead of presidential candidate, she suggested national health care.

I bet she could really swing the election her way if she brings it up.
But the capitalist economy would probably start jump at her throat with knives.

She did and was initially popular at the time until people had time to actually read what her plan was. Her plan was to simply not pay physicians and make them work for free, but not help with paying for their education or help with protection from frivolous lawsuits. She failed to get her real plan implemented, but under her direction, Bill slashed physician reimbursements to ridiculous levels. Whenever the government does that, then the entire private insurance market does the same. She is in a large way directly responsible for why there is a shortage of physicians and nurses today. Her famous quote of the time was, "No doctor is worth $50,000 per year.

[nybx4life]

The fact that McCain barely has to anything against Hilary and Obama shows a possible future.
I mean, he may be in the news every now and then, but he doesn't pick up as much publicity as Obama, bowling against a child and loses (just the article I read, not to focus on that), eating at a local diner, denying a person who wants a photo taken with him.
Hilary, the other half of the articles.

[nybx4life]

"No doctor is worth $50,000 per year.

I bet it wouldn't be if they decide to start teaching all those doctor and physician courses by the time a child is in middle school. There'd be so much qualified doctors and physicians around that the yearly allowance would drop drastically.

[GeorgeK]

I bet it wouldn't be if they decide to start teaching all those doctor and physician courses by the time a child is in middle school. There'd be so much qualified doctors and physicians around that the yearly allowance would drop drastically.


I don't understand what you are saying. Try to teach middle schoolers medicine? That's just not possible if that's what you are suggesting. Of course some of the blame lies on Bush for continuing what Clinton started instead of reversing it. That's why I (one of many reasons) didn't vote for him the second time around and why I'll probably vote for Nader again. Neither of the 2 big parties have anything other than buzzwords.

[Takvah]

I don't understand what you are saying. Try to teach middle schoolers medicine? That's just not possible if that's what you are suggesting.

Ahhh... but it worked for Doogie Howser *nodding affirmation*

http://bestuff.com/images/images_of_stuff/210x600/doogie-howser-36227.jpg?1173505731

[GeorgeK]

[quote=Takvah;2289995]Ahhh... but it worked for Doogie Howser *nodding affirmation*
quote]

I'm not sure if you're serious or joking, but Doogie Howser is fiction. The human brain continues to develop until about the age of 22. Learning how to function in society, how to handle your hormones, how to handle your changing body, actually eats up a lot of brain function. There have been rare instances in the past where children were essentially put into medical school and the results were universsally disasterous, (very high suicide rate, absolutely horrible bedside manner/god complexes, innapropriate sexual relations etc) not to mention that a large part of the training is time based as well as test based so it isn't possible to speed things up realistically. Can you imagine a 12 year old boy learning to do a pelvic exam and actually remain professional? Sure there would be a few who could, assuming the patient's allowed it, but still it would be a big can of worms.

[ACEnders]

Ahhh... but it worked for Doogie Howser *nodding affirmation*

http://bestuff.com/images/images_of_stuff/210x600/doogie-howser-36227.jpg?1173505731

I LOVED that show! Vinny was my favorite!!! Man they look so much younger than I remember them being...I must be getting old.

[cethklein]

you guys are still under the assumption that the clintons brought this up. they didn't. the media did. why would they purposely bring up old baggage on bill? they didn't bring up wright either but only showed evidence that wright was a guest at the white house. they didn't bring up sommalian garb either but only showed evidence that bill wore african garb when meeting an african leader too.

the media is the blame for so much more damage and you clinton haters can see through the red in your eyes. you're always out for clinton blood even when it's not warranted.

i'm just posting stuff for open debate. if it goes a way i don't like, then that's the way it goes. i do favor clinton but i'm not lovesick blind like some obama supporters who think he cannot do wrong. the link shows damage to obama and bill, not hillary... hence the slant toward obama damage -- but most do not separate the two.

i think it's just more dirt the mccain campaign... demonstrating a history of poor judgement amongst colleagues.

Could have fooled me. Anyway though, nice save Nikee.

[NikeeGoddess]

you can pick and choose from my posts what you want about me but, i'm one of the few peeps here who still hope for the dream ticket. they compliment each other: she's got the brains and he's got charisma.

[InfinityGoddess]

you can pick and choose from my posts what you want about me but, i'm one of the few peeps here who still hope for the dream ticket. they compliment each other: she's got the brains and he's got charisma.

I don't see it happening.

[pconsidine]

This is a perfect example of why McCain will most likely win the general election in the fall and EXACTLY what the Democratic leadership was afraid of if the nomination wasn't wrapped up months ago. Theoretically, supporters of these candidates actually agree with each other, in principle anyway. So why all the venom?

Let's be honest here – there's hardly any substantial difference between Clinton and Obama. As far as I can tell, Clinton's supporters are those who don't have the luxury of taking a risk on someone who's basically a Washington outsider and have to go with the person they know. Obama's supporters are those are excited by the idea of casting their vote for a truly groundbreaking candidate and can afford to take a risk, with the idea that even the worst Obama administration will be better than the best of the Bush administration.

My point basically is that all this intra-party barking is a fantastic waste of time, energy and money. The only difference between them is packaging. But then, Democrats haven't really had anything to rally behind since civil rights, so maybe this is just the way it's got to be.

[NikeeGoddess]

I don't see it happeningthere's a lot of things you don't see. love is blind.

[InfinityGoddess]

This is a perfect example of why McCain will most likely win the general election in the fall and EXACTLY what the Democratic leadership was afraid of if the nomination wasn't wrapped up months ago. Theoretically, supporters of these candidates actually agree with each other, in principle anyway. So why all the venom?


He won't, what with Democratic turnout being what it has been in these primaries (which is significantly huge), and him being another war-mongering neocon in the waiting. People are tired of war, and they want an economic and health plan that's sound. McCain won't give them those things.

[William Haskins]

to bring the thread back on topic, here are some of ayers' greatest hits, then and now, in his own words...

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives2/2008/04/020362.php

[Andrew]

to bring the thread back on topic, here are some of ayers' greatest hits, then and now, in his own words...

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives2/2008/04/020362.php

Umm. Lovely people. If we are the beast or if we are facists, how is it they can still say such lovely things with impunity? The truly delusional, base, empty heart, souless I suppose, would say such things. It is telling of Mr. Obama that he has not condemned anything they've done or said.

[johnnysannie]

you can pick and choose from my posts what you want about me but, i'm one of the few peeps here who still hope for the dream ticket. they compliment each other: she's got the brains and he's got charisma.

I don't think it will happen and personally I would call it a nightmare ticket. It might be historical - first woman and first black candidate paired together - but if they run on the same ticket, they'll go down in flames.

[mscelina]

yeah, I don't know. I have to admit to a certain sick fascination with watching disasters unfold, but an Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama ticket might actually supersede my taste for gore.

get it? gore.

*sigh*

[small axe]

When Illinois State Senator Alice Palmer decided to retire in 1995, she hand-picked local left-winger Barack Obama as her successor. In order to introduce Obama to influential liberals in the district, she held a function at the home of Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn.

I'm actually relieved to read this: I'd heard that OBAMA had chosen to associate with the Weatherman in his early career.

In fact, we now hear it was Senator PALMER chose that location? Then it was merely Obama allowing a Senator to choose the location from which SHE launched her successor's political career. :)

According to that logic, they're simply accusing Obama of being in the same room with people ...
People who the USA legal system saw fit to leave free (if not Bill Clinton? Are they the Weather Underground BILL CLINTON pardoned?)

This was, really, the beginning of Obama's political career, and it linked him forever with Ayers and Dohrn, with whom, as his campaign has acknowledged, he continues to have a friendly relationship.

Yeah, for the use of anti-Obama propagandists they're 'linked forever' :( rightly or wrongly.

...

Obama replied that Ayers had done reprehensible things forty years ago, when Obama was eight years old, and scoffed at the idea that Ayers's ancient history could be relevant. That was disingenuous, of course, given Ayers's 2001 regrets.

I see the distinction there: the 'reprehensible' acts Obama rejected, acts done when Obama was eight years old ...

And the reprehensible words and beliefs of some old coot who won't abandon the reprehensible errors of his youth.

It's like a Northerner listening to an old Confederate soldier 60 years old, drooling in his rocking chair, who won't repudiate his errors in the Civil War: THEN he was worth fighting, NOW he's just an old coot reliving his youth and not worth arguing against. :)

The main point is: The legal system (if not Bill Clinton) let them out of jail. They were a political reality in Chicago, even if Obama wasn't a supporter of their youthful idiocy.

I don't believe Obama has to investigate and specifically repudiate the biography of every person he associates with.

As President, Barack Obama will be interacting diplomatically with national leaders or terrorist-linked organizations with whom we ALL disagree and we ALL reject ... for the good of the USA.

Thus is the reality of Politics, and Obama seems a tough-minded realist, in his willingness to reach out to many who other more timid fear to be in the same room or church with.

Good for him.

The Weather Underground are a tempest in a teacup now, old failed radicals, captured and now set free.

Their only value now may be for those who embrace them as tools to attack Obama with.

[William Haskins]

The Weather Underground are a tempest in a teacup now, old failed radicals, captured and now set free.

hey, here's an idea: take all that time you spend increasing font size, bolding and underlining to give the impression you know what the hell you're actually talking about and, instead, spend that time educating yourself.

bill ayers is far from a broken-down former radical without influence or relevance:


Unfortunately, neither Obama nor his critics in the media seem to have a clue about Ayers’s current work and his widespread influence in the education schools. In his last debate with Hillary Clinton, Obama referred to Ayers as a “professor of English,” an error that the media then repeated. Would that Ayers were just another radical English professor. In that case, his poisonous anti-American teaching would be limited to a few hundred college students in the liberal arts. But through his indoctrination of future K–12 teachers, Ayers has been able to influence what happens in hundreds, perhaps thousands, of classrooms.

Ayers’s influence on what is taught in the nation’s public schools is likely to grow in the future. Last month, he was elected vice president for curriculum of the 25,000-member American Educational Research Association (AERA), the nation’s largest organization of education-school professors and researchers. Ayers won the election handily, and there is no doubt that his fellow education professors knew whom they were voting for. In the short biographical statement distributed to prospective voters beforehand, Ayers listed among his scholarly books Fugitive Days, an unapologetic memoir about his ten years in the Weather Underground. The book includes dramatic accounts of how he bombed the Pentagon and other public buildings.


http://www.city-journal.org/2008/eon0423ss.html

[nybx4life]

I don't understand what you are saying. Try to teach middle schoolers medicine? That's just not possible if that's what you are suggesting. Of course some of the blame lies on Bush for continuing what Clinton started instead of reversing it. That's why I (one of many reasons) didn't vote for him the second time around and why I'll probably vote for Nader again. Neither of the 2 big parties have anything other than buzzwords.

Now, of course, it's possible for middle schoolers to learn CPR, but not basic to intermediate medicine?
Come on, a good teacher could teach any kid how to help a dude with a first aid kit, or with other herbal remedies (but that's advanced)

While I don't care much about who you vote for, or if you even DO vote, you got to admit, if you teach your child some decent medical skills, it would definitely save you trips to the doctor.
And with health costs so high, you know you'd want to sign them up for that CPR class right now:D

[cethklein]

there's a lot of things you don't see. love is blind.

Pot, meet the kettle.

[GeorgeK]

Now, of course, it's possible for middle schoolers to learn CPR, but not basic to intermediate medicine?
Come on, a good teacher could teach any kid how to help a dude with a first aid kit, or with other herbal remedies (but that's advanced)

While I don't care much about who you vote for, or if you even DO vote, you got to admit, if you teach your child some decent medical skills, it would definitely save you trips to the doctor.
And with health costs so high, you know you'd want to sign them up for that CPR class right now:D

CPR? Sure, no problem, but Doctoral level Anatomy, Physiology, Biochemistry, Embryology, Histology, Pathology, Pharmacology, Microbiology, Genetics and a few more that are only the first two years of medicine, and then have them do two years of clinical rotations? No Freakin way.

CPR is required in 8th grade around here, maybe 7th, I don't remember.

I vote in the November elections but here if you are registered independent like me, you aren't allowed to vote in the May elections. I'm not sure how that is constitutional but it wouldn't much matter with the way politics is around here. It's like a religion, not open for discussion.

[nybx4life]

hmm.....
Maybe if they learned a bit about herbal remedies, it might be a bit less obsessive than what you made my last suggestion seem (which might not be exaggerated at all)

[eldragon]

It's more like if she can bring about the changes that can help raise our standard of living.
I don't know how you're respondless to this. It's more of a "FYI, you'll never pay attention to it but just if you're curious..." type of thing.

BTW, did you know the US ranked at 357th for quality of health care?
Cuba did better than us *gasp*
Duh?

[GeorgeK]

People are tired of war, and they want an economic and health plan that's sound. McCain won't give them those things.

The president still would need to go through congress for all those things so the chances of any of them getting any of it done is pretty low. The Pres does have more leeway in war matters but all three of them want to keep the troops there, unless I missed something. To me Hillary seems the most vindictive and polarizing therefore the most likely to escalate things and the least likely to garner support in congress, but that's really just an opinion or gut feeling. I find this election less fearsome than the horrid choices in the last 2, but I'm still not inspired

[eldragon]

I bet it wouldn't be if they decide to start teaching all those doctor and physician courses by the time a child is in middle school. There'd be so much qualified doctors and physicians around that the yearly allowance would drop drastically.

Good idea. Let's just eliminate all those useless science and biology classes that lay the groundwork for a career in medicine.

We'll just focus on the high-points, like surgery basics 101 and anesthesiology for beginners.

[GeorgeK]

hmm.....
Maybe if they learned a bit about herbal remedies, it might be a bit less obsessive than what you made my last suggestion seem (which might not be exaggerated at all)

Yeah, have a child prescribe untested, unregulated and nonstandardized dosages of anything? Not me. There's probably more quality control by the dealers of illegal drugs.

[Takvah]

Yeah, have a child prescribe untested, unregulated and nonstandardized dosages of anything? Not me. There's probably more quality control by the dealers of illegal drugs.

Oh I don't know... in my younger days I was a huge proponent of "herbal remedies" :D

http://www.simplydumb.com/wp-content/pot-smoker.jpg

[nybx4life]

Yeah, have a child prescribe untested, unregulated and nonstandardized dosages of anything? Not me. There's probably more quality control by the dealers of illegal drugs.


NOW, you're exaggerating.
When I said herbal, goodness, I'm not talking about new kinds of weed.

I'm talking about plants.
Most medicines today are based from extracts of parts of plants.
And unless I'm wrong, and it happens to actually come that it comes from dirt, toxic, and water, then maybe I should let myself out the door.

There are books from many people who know what plants to use for what situation.

For example, did you know that black seed (cumin seed) oil can help with your immune system?
may not be FDA tested, but most medicines that worked before weren't, and now are.

[GeorgeK]

Oh I don't know... in my younger days I was a huge proponent of "herbal remedies" :D

http://www.simplydumb.com/wp-content/pot-smoker.jpg

LOL, didn't see that coming for some reason. I've never partaken of it (I'm severely allergic to smoke, but from what I've read I think it probably does have a place in medicine. The problem is that the government can't figure out a way to tax it and phamaceutical companies aren't going to pay for research for something that grows like a weed.

[GeorgeK]

NOW, you're exaggerating.

Where?


When I said herbal, goodness, I'm not talking about new kinds of weed.


I think you're talking to Takvah there


I'm talking about plants.
Most medicines today are based from extracts of parts of plants..

True, or at least usually derived from naturally occuring compounds, but natural does not mean safe. Cyanide and Arsenic are natural but I do not recommend taking pills of them. Most of the herbal medicines that I've encountered patients taking were placebos. If that's all it was, I'd say fine, because across the board placebos have been shown to have about a 30% success rate as reported by patients. Most of those cases were self limited problems that would heal on their own, and mental attitude does provide some benefit so even witch doctors have their place. It's not total bonk.

The problem with herbal medicines is not that they don't work. The problem is that you have no idea of what or of what dose you are taking of any of it. There is no standardization, oversight or control. I've seen people OD on foxglove tea because of the digitalis it contains. I've had female patients sent to me for testosterone producing tumors where there was no tumor. They were taking DHEA which, if that's what the pill actually has, is converted to testosterone. I've seen prostate cancer patients have rapidly growing tumors becuase of the same DHEA. I've seen patients who went into renal failure from taking "Chinese Kidney Herb Extract" That one was actually written up in a journal, not by me, but the analysis showed the stuff was very nephrotoxic. There are a lot of scam products out there some are dangerous, some are merely worthless. Once in a while there is something that turns out to be good and there was one herbal medicine that I prescribed with the same warnings of a related prescription medicine.

When you go to the pharmacy do you roll dice to determine what pill you pick up and roll dice again to determine how many to take on a given day? Would you take medicines from a vending machine, where there was no way to trace where the medicines came from or who put them in there, because that's what you really are doing with most herbal medicines? Personally, I'm not into Russian Roulette but if that's your thing?


And unless I'm wrong, and it happens to actually come that it comes from dirt, toxic, and water, then maybe I should let myself out the door.


English is my native language and I have no idea what this means.


There are books from many people who know what plants to use for what situation.


Getting a book published does not make the author an authority or the topic reliable. A lot of those books are money making schemes through what is basically vanity publishing. All that the term "professional" means is that somebody paid the person.


For example, did you know that black seed (cumin seed) oil can help with your immune system?

So you say. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. Best guess, it probably is harmless and I like the flavor of cumin as well as cilantro its parent plant.


may not be FDA tested, but most medicines that worked before weren't, and now are.

If you are trying to say that people survived before the FDA, sure but mainly because the weak died in infancy

[small axe]

Originally Posted by small axe http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2292862#post2292862)
The Weather Underground are a tempest in a teacup now, old failed radicals, captured and now set free.


hey, here's an idea: take all that time you spend increasing font size, bolding and underlining to give the impression you know what the hell you're actually talking about and, instead, spend that time educating yourself.

Well, Haskins ... I know what I'm talking about.

I just don't know why YOU'VE been getting so rude and personally-insulting lately.

But here's what I'm talking about:

The Weather Underground used to plant bombs and blow things up, understand?

Now they don't.

What do they do NOW?

Well ... according to your own quote below, Ayers runs for election to some Education position (and seems well-thought-of enough that he was elected)

So yes: I called that a 'tempest in a teacup' ...

When former bomb-planting terrorists are now glorified Teachers debating curriculum. :)

(May God let the day come soon ... when the suicide bombers in Iraq are happy to debate curriculum instead of commit terrorism)

You don't like his message? His curriculum isn't going to blow up any banks or buildings, sir.

That still doesn't make him a monster worth using to try to drag down a potentially paradigm-changing USA President either, imo.

WE don't agree. I don't care enough what your bias is, to worry much about it.

But you only demean yourself with hinted insults, sir. Educating myself won't make your bias any wiser.

I use colours and fonts because it seems the easiest way to reply to specific comments within a quote.

Because I respect other writers enough to deal with their points ... rather than merely suggest that they "educate themselves" just so I can pretend their disagreement is error.

I fear you've done that, here.


bill ayers is far from a broken-down former radical without influence or relevance:


Quote:
Unfortunately, neither Obama nor his critics in the media seem to have a clue about Ayers’s current work and his widespread influence in the education schools. In his last debate with Hillary Clinton, Obama referred to Ayers as a “professor of English,” an error that the media then repeated. Would that Ayers were just another radical English professor. In that case, his poisonous anti-American teaching would be limited to a few hundred college students in the liberal arts. But through his indoctrination of future K–12 teachers, Ayers has been able to influence what happens in hundreds, perhaps thousands, of classrooms.

Ayers’s influence on what is taught in the nation’s public schools is likely to grow in the future. Last month, he was elected vice president for curriculum of the 25,000-member American Educational Research Association (AERA), the nation’s largest organization of education-school professors and researchers. Ayers won the election handily, and there is no doubt that his fellow education professors knew whom they were voting for. In the short biographical statement distributed to prospective voters beforehand, Ayers listed among his scholarly books Fugitive Days, an unapologetic memoir about his ten years in the Weather Underground. The book includes dramatic accounts of how he bombed the Pentagon and other public buildings.
http://www.city-journal.org/2008/eon0423ss.html

Again: we simply disagree. That is no reason for you to be rude. :)